In our area there is simply NO reason to commit interior to abandoned buildings to conduct searches. life safety is simply NOT an operational issue.
If you want to drive down here, and find a reason why I need to be concerned about this in either my combination or volunteer districts, I'll put you up in my spare bedroom and feed you, but you'll be wasting your time because you simply will not find this to be an issue.
That, my friend, is the reason.
Thank god for Vegas.
Vastly different community where squatting and utilizing empty buildings for this type of thing is the norm.
Also vastly different resource set where likely they put at least 15-20 members on scene on the first alarm within 6-8 minutes.
So... Let me get this straight. Saving property; not important. Saving Live; not important.... What exactly do you do then?
If I recall correctly, the mission of the fire service is to "Protect lives and save property" is it not? Sooo...What exactly do you do then? If property and lives are unimportant to you, WHAT DO YOU DO?
Yes, both of those are important. I have no issues committing to save lives when viable and necessary. At this time it's simply not necessary to commit to interior operations on abandoned buildings, or even vacant buildings to protect lives as the risk does not exist at a statistically significant level.
As far as property we've discussed this before. i will not commit members to abandoned buildings with unknown structural issues, that the owner has decided to not maintain. Our lives are simply too valuable.
Vacant property which is till maintained has a higher value, and given viable savable property in association with the correct training, experience, manpower, resources and water supply for the structure, I have no issues committing interior manpower. Given problems in any of those areas, again, our lives are too valuable to commit interior simply to save property,
Give it time, it will happen. Do you think West Texas expected that fertilizer plant to blow up? Do you think Boston expected two bombs to be set off during a marathon? Do you think anyone expected 9/11? That's why you don't get it, man. It's not about what you have encountered. It's about what's POSSIBLE, not what always happens or has never happened.
As far as West, given they had pressurized tanks on site combined with fertilizer, they should have considered that possibility.
Given Boston, I am sure that they were very well aware that they were a possible target and have no doubt that they had plans for such an event. I am very sure that they knew that it was simply a matter of time.
Funny thing is that my combo department covers a miliatary facility with a civilian explosives manufacturing component, and my VFD is the primary mutual aid department. My combo department covers a refinery with significant potential, and my VFD is the primary mutual aid department for a much more volatile low-flash point refinery in the district to our north.. And both my combo and VFD covers a very busy interstate, so we know all about planning and preparing for "possibilities".
Will there be a day that we may have victims in a vacant or abandoned building when we arrive? Likely, yes. When will that day be? Who knows. But I do know that at this time, it's an unlikely possibility, and i will not commit members interior on abandoned building fires based on that outside possibility without some external reason to prompt me too. We simply are too valuable.
I'm not, will not, nor have I ever been, your friend.
That''s too bad. I'm a lot of fun at parties.
AND AGAIN, your definition of viable and necessary is simply outrageous, and not the norm in the rest of the fire service.
I sincerely hope your community knows that their fire department is run by elitists who refuse to do their job if it puts them at risk of ANYTHING.
So because my primary concern is that every single one of my responding firefighters walks off the scene so that they can go to work the next day and provide for thier famalies, I am a elitist?
To me , that is the primary job of every officer.
They don't have to be labled "squatters", or any other descriptive tag for that matter. I get the feeling that your disdain for anyone being in someone elses property in "your" berg constitutes a reason to not render aid to them should things go bad.
Signs should be posted at every entrance to town that "squatters, mischievous kids, curious land and property speculators, historical preservationists, amatuer or professional photographers, used brick dealers, or even you vermin just passin through, a lookin fer a place tu pee, will not be eligible for life safety privileges in this here town".
1. The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups (You and your fire departments) deserve favored treatment(From your community) by virtue of their perceived superiority, (The fact that you drive big red trucks with flashing lights) as in intellect, social status, or financial resources.
Yeah, sounds about right.
People call the fire department for HELP, not to have another 10 guys to stand in the yard and watch the house burn down, not to look at them and say "Oh sorry, we're not saving gramma today, we only have 6 guys, not 12."
It is the primary job of every officer to make sure, to the best of their ability, that everyone goes home. That does not mean, however, that we don't aggressively try to save lives, and even property. That's what you seem to fail to understand.
So tell me who here says "Gosh darn it, screw these firefighters, they are expendable, and the sooner they realize it the better? Damn the torpedoes full speed ahead! Run into that fully involved building, run into that collapsing structure. BANZAI!!" Well, tell me who has made any claim that safety is not important? The truth is you are not about safety, you are about control and your means of exercising control is to be this ridiculously zealous safety monitor. The hard truth is people expect the fire department to arrive and make the situation better, in order to do that you have to at least attempt to extinguish the fire or make a search...WHEN POSSIBLE! Your ridiculous comments in the garage fire topic about how you would very possibly lose that house show your complete willingness to just stand back and say "Oh Well. It ain't mine." But then again you need a conscience to feel anything when bad things happen to others and since nothing causes you to lose sleep it is clear you have none.
You are a blight, a poison, and the worst of this so called new wave of safety culturists who should have sought a different career or volunteer agency to be involved in.
Maybe the fault here isn't on the firefighters. Maybe it isn't even on LA. Maybe it is on the leadership that actually makes decisions for the FD.
Does anyone here remember the kid in the neighborhood when you were growing up whose parents always shot him down? The kid who wanted to be a pilot, or a doctor, or a soldier, or whatever and his parents told them over and over you aren't smart enough, tough enough, skilled enough, to be those people and you never will be. Eventually, like the beat dog, most of those kids give up on their dream and become just another mindless wage earning drone like their loser parents were. I am just wondering how long it takes telling your firefighters that they suck, alway will suck, and nothing they do will even put a dent in their suckiness, before they finally hang their heads and say "WE SUCK!" and quit trying with any enthusiasm to not suck.
Or is it that the department has run into the situation where either 1. Nobody else is willing to do it or 2. No one else is qualified or ready to do it, so that leaves the leaders in there that just roam around telling their guys that they suck?
When I took Firefighter I and Firefighter II, I was working 40+ hours a week, and going to other college part time for some general education credits.
When I took FADO, I was working part time (15-20hrs a week), and running 250+ hours a month on the ambulance.
When I took EMT-B, I was running 350-400+ hours a month on the ambulance.
When I took EMT-IT, I was working 35 hours a week, and running 250-350+ hours on the ambulance.
I have a wife, and daughter, and bills too.
I don't/didn't/won't make excuses not to train, because excuses don't end emergencies, training does.
There is no difference in the commitment to being a vollie firefighter as there is a reserve LEO.
In CA, reserve LEO's go through the same training and are required to maintain the same certs as professionals. Many do that while holding down a full time job and taking care of their families.
It's obvious you want the glamor of being a firefighter without the actual responsibility.