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Thread: Hey LA! This one's for you!

  1. #476
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    Look you ignoramus, you have no concept of claculated risk when you are writing off a building and its occupants before you even arrive on scene. You have no concept of calculated risk if you are writing off a building simply based on its construction method with no knowledge of the location of the fire, the size of the fire, the extent of spread of the fire, and if the fire remains in the compartment or has begun to attack structural members. By your idiotic manner of writing off a building you could very well show up at a structure that you won't enter due to construction type, have a trash can burning in a lunch room producing a large quantity of smoke from plastic in it, and remain outside until the building was consumed by a fire that could have been extinguished with a 2 1/2 gallon water extinguisher. THAT is the problem with idiotic, blanket, do this or don't do that types of policies. They seldom if ever work!

    Disagree. Let's just leave it at that.



    it is just another excuse for your inaction.

    So the only officer responding takes 18-20 minutes to arrive on scene, as an example vs. 8 or 9, and you are saying that 's not a factor on the outcome of the incident, especially when the non-officers have almost zero command experience less one or two?



    This is why you will NEVER, EVER, be taken seriously here. When you can respond like that to a situation so easily handled then you sir, are nothing more than a pathetic poser and certainly not by any stretch of the imagination a firefighter. If you were command and lost that house with the stove fire, and I were your chief, you would be relieved of any and all fire ground duties and told to focus your energy on Pub Ed. I wouldn't even want you responding any longer in the position of firefighter.

    I would do what I think is right to protect the members. That is my number one concern. the fire is number 2.

    If you were the Chief and had a problem with that, I likely would not want to serve in any capacity in your department.



    Nope, just me doing EVERYTHING I can to save MY family. Sorry your mind doesn't work that way. It is truly pathetic what a sad example of a human being you are.

    I love my wife but I also have 4 kids in another state. Both my wife and kids are important but i will not die trying to save one and leave the other ones without a husband or a Dad.


    Yet when you have fires you refuse to let them get any experience...BRILLIANT!

    As I have stated we rarely have fires. And when we do, more than likely it will be fully involved or on the groud when we arrive due to distance and response time.

    When it is safe for them to operate interior at a real world incident, they do and will.




    More time if you don't do anything worthwhile to effect change.

    I think my Chief and follow officers would disagree.

    Developed a Rookie Class. Taught a 1403 class. taught several Awareness and Operations classes. Transitional attack. Rapid Intervention weekend classes. More structure to weekly training.

    Yup. Nothing.


    Well considering you have essentially called them bumpkins...

    Really? So calling therm inexperienced due to a lack of fires and under trained due to, up until recently, a lack of opportunities for live burn training.

    No, I think you called them Bumpkins.


    Never said you called them trash. But if you go to a fire, and have an entire family die in that fire and you feel absolutely nothing, I believe you are mentally ill. Plain and simple. It is not normal to not feel anything at all. The problem you have is you see any aspect of human emotional reaction to that as bad. I see it as normal and a motivator. I don't carry them around my neck like Marley carried his chains of a life of greed, but they are there and I use them to motivate me to be better, to try harder, and to help my fellow firefighters be better.

    Mentally ill? Wow.

    As I have stated, I have no dog in their fight. Do I like how the incident turned out? Hell no. But with that being said I have a lot of other personal and fire department concerns to move on with and I simply don't have the time to dwell on the past, especially if there was nothing that could have been done to change the outcome.

    Look at how we could improve and move on.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  2. #477
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    ZZZZzzzzzz.....more nonsense from the lunatic fringe. Now there is an expectation of financial protection for VFD families. Yet in the next breath we're told that service to the community is what is important and that professionals only do it for the money.
    Where did I say that I expected financial protection for volunteer families?

    I clearly stated that the lack of that protection was the major reason why I protect them as I do.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  3. #478
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Funny .. my VFD does that from the exterior on every structure fire with fire showing out of two or more windows with a 2 1/2" line while we may wait for additional resources.

    We also have the option to do it on a room and contents fire if there are not enough members on scene to go interior.

    It's called a transitional attack.
    The exterior part of the transitional attack is typically performed when there is a significant volume of fire present which reasonably precludes leading with an interior attack. R&C and fire showing from 2 windows are not the types of fires in which the transitional attack is performed because these are fires that can typically be quickly handled by a single handline.

    Besides, it's only a transitional attack if you actually send people inside after you hit it from the outside.
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  4. #479
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    The exterior part of the transitional attack is typically performed when there is a significant volume of fire present which reasonably precludes leading with an interior attack. R&C and fire showing from 2 windows are not the types of fires in which the transitional attack is performed because these are fires that can typically be quickly handled by a single handline.

    Besides, it's only a transitional attack if you actually send people inside after you hit it from the outside.
    That is a part of the plan.

    I strongly disagree about the two windows however.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Nope, just me doing EVERYTHING I can to save MY family. Sorry your mind doesn't work that way. It is truly pathetic what a sad example of a human being you are.

    I love my wife but I also have 4 kids in another state. Both my wife and kids are important but i will not die trying to save one and leave the other ones without a husband or a Dad.
    WOW!! This statement speaks volumes about your character and none of it good.
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  6. #481
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I strongly disagree about the two windows however.
    Of course you do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Look you ignoramus, you have no concept of claculated risk when you are writing off a building and its occupants before you even arrive on scene. You have no concept of calculated risk if you are writing off a building simply based on its construction method with no knowledge of the location of the fire, the size of the fire, the extent of spread of the fire, and if the fire remains in the compartment or has begun to attack structural members. By your idiotic manner of writing off a building you could very well show up at a structure that you won't enter due to construction type, have a trash can burning in a lunch room producing a large quantity of smoke from plastic in it, and remain outside until the building was consumed by a fire that could have been extinguished with a 2 1/2 gallon water extinguisher. THAT is the problem with idiotic, blanket, do this or don't do that types of policies. They seldom if ever work!

    Disagree. Let's just leave it at that.

    Of course this is all you have to say because writing off building before you arrive, and writing off buildings simply because of construction type, with no other information is simply indefensible.

    it is just another excuse for your inaction.

    So the only officer responding takes 18-20 minutes to arrive on scene, as an example vs. 8 or 9, and you are saying that 's not a factor on the outcome of the incident, especially when the non-officers have almost zero command experience less one or two?

    To me this is just another example of how pathetic your volly FD is. You have a policy that your vollies can't act without an officer on location and sometimes, as you have admitted, there may be no officer at all responding. So what do they do? Show up, stand around and then leave when the place burns down?

    This is why you will NEVER, EVER, be taken seriously here. When you can respond like that to a situation so easily handled then you sir, are nothing more than a pathetic poser and certainly not by any stretch of the imagination a firefighter. If you were command and lost that house with the stove fire, and I were your chief, you would be relieved of any and all fire ground duties and told to focus your energy on Pub Ed. I wouldn't even want you responding any longer in the position of firefighter.

    I would do what I think is right to protect the members. That is my number one concern. the fire is number 2.

    If you were the Chief and had a problem with that, I likely would not want to serve in any capacity in your department.


    Oh Bobby, you are a funny man. First of all, what makes you think the idea of serving on my volly FD would be your choice? I guarantee you would never make it past the application process. We would see through your nonsense and reject you out of hand.

    Nope, just me doing EVERYTHING I can to save MY family. Sorry your mind doesn't work that way. It is truly pathetic what a sad example of a human being you are.

    I love my wife but I also have 4 kids in another state. Both my wife and kids are important but i will not die trying to save one and leave the other ones without a husband or a Dad.

    More excuses to not even TRY to save your wife...Pathetic.

    Yet when you have fires you refuse to let them get any experience...BRILLIANT!

    As I have stated we rarely have fires. And when we do, more than likely it will be fully involved or on the groud when we arrive due to distance and response time.

    But what if it isn't? What excuse will you make then for not entering?

    When it is safe for them to operate interior at a real world incident, they do and will.


    Which under your instruction will be never.

    More time if you don't do anything worthwhile to effect change.

    I think my Chief and follow officers would disagree.

    Developed a Rookie Class. Taught a 1403 class. taught several Awareness and Operations classes. Transitional attack. Rapid Intervention weekend classes. More structure to weekly training.

    Yup. Nothing.


    And yet they still can't go interior, they still have to wait for an officer to arrive who may not arrive at all, and you see no point in which any of that will be resolved.

    Well considering you have essentially called them bumpkins...


    Really? So calling therm inexperienced due to a lack of fires and under trained due to, up until recently, a lack of opportunities for live burn training.

    No, I think you called them Bumpkins.


    I used the word bumpkin, you have continuously panted them as such.

    Never said you called them trash. But if you go to a fire, and have an entire family die in that fire and you feel absolutely nothing, I believe you are mentally ill. Plain and simple. It is not normal to not feel anything at all. The problem you have is you see any aspect of human emotional reaction to that as bad. I see it as normal and a motivator. I don't carry them around my neck like Marley carried his chains of a life of greed, but they are there and I use them to motivate me to be better, to try harder, and to help my fellow firefighters be better.

    Mentally ill? Wow.

    Yep, a complete lack of appropriate human emotions is a definite sign of mental illness.

    As I have stated, I have no dog in their fight. Do I like how the incident turned out? Hell no. But with that being said I have a lot of other personal and fire department concerns to move on with and I simply don't have the time to dwell on the past, especially if there was nothing that could have been done to change the outcome.

    You see this is all just more blather and excuses to hide your pathetic lack of human compassion and ability to do the job as it should be done. Nice smoke screen.

    Look at how we could improve and move on.


    You have to actually do something to have a base to build on for improvement.
    Just another dose of nonsense...it seems to be all you have.
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  8. #483
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    I believe there are monsters born in the world to human parents. Some you can see, misshapen and horrible, with huge heads or tiny bodies. . . . And just as there are physical monsters, can there not be mental or psychic monsters born? The face and body may be perfect, but if a twisted gene or a malformed egg can produce physical monsters, may not the same process produce a malformed soul?
    Ever read east of Eden by steinbeck ?
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    ?

  9. #484
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    One more from the same book
    I believe that there is one story in the world, and only one. . . . Humans are caught—in their lives, in their thoughts, in their hungers and ambitions, in their avarice and cruelty, and in their kindness and generosity too—in a net of good and evil. . . . There is no other story. A man, after he has brushed off the dust and chips of his life, will have left only the hard, clean questions: Was it good or was it evil? Have I done well—or ill?
    ?

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    Uhhhh...... Sometimes I read guns and ammo and firefighting magazines. My wife tried to get me to read Men are from Mars Women are from Venus but it did not have any pictures so I gave up.

  11. #486
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    150K budget vs. 1.4M budget. 16 people on the roster vs nearly 100. 0 paid staff vs. 8 paid staff. 4 paid members volunteering vs. 10-12 paid firefighters working as volunteers. No extrication and technical rescue abilities vs. Extrication tools on every engine plus a heavy rescue and several members with advanced tech rescue training.

    Your're right. No difference in capabilities.

    $40k budget, 18 people on the roster, about 8-10 per call, ZERO paid staff, all volunteer/paid on call, who work other 40+ hour a week jobs to pay bills.

    And we STILL fight fire more aggressively than EITHER of your departments, because we seem to have a couple things that you lack. A brain, a heart, and courage. So stop trying to sugarcoat your safety brand of bullschit, and just say you don't give a damn about the citizens or the community, and it's all about wearing a t-shirt, riding in a big truck, pretending to be a firefighter, and stroking that delicate little ego of yours.
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    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

  12. #487
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I love my wife but I also have 4 kids in another state. Both my wife and kids are important but i will not die trying to save one and leave the other ones without a husband or a Dad.
    If I was your wife, and I read this, I would divorce your *** right now. You are a pathetic excuse for not only a firefighter, but a human being, a husband, and a father.
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

  13. #488
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    $40k budget, 18 people on the roster, about 8-10 per call, ZERO paid staff, all volunteer/paid on call, who work other 40+ hour a week jobs to pay bills.

    And we STILL fight fire more aggressively than EITHER of your departments, because we seem to have a couple things that you lack. A brain, a heart, and courage. So stop trying to sugarcoat your safety brand of bullschit, and just say you don't give a damn about the citizens or the community, and it's all about wearing a t-shirt, riding in a big truck, pretending to be a firefighter, and stroking that delicate little ego of yours.
    I thought 150k sounded like a lot for the service they provide. We have 21 members and 35,000 city budget with 5000 county budget. 5-10 members per call, fairly aggressive tactics and training and 11 apparatus. But 150k for the service?

  14. #489
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    Of course this is all you have to say because writing off building before you arrive, and writing off buildings simply because of construction type, with no other information is simply indefensible.

    No....... I'm simply tired of discussing why certain buildings kill firefighters, and why it's perfectly acceptable to not make entry..

    it is just another excuse for your inaction.

    So the only officer responding takes 18-20 minutes to arrive on scene, as an example vs. 8 or 9, and you are saying that 's not a factor on the outcome of the incident, especially when the non-officers have almost zero command experience less one or two?

    To me this is just another example of how pathetic your volly FD is. You have a policy that your vollies can't act without an officer on location and sometimes, as you have admitted, there may be no officer at all responding. So what do they do? Show up, stand around and then leave when the place burns down?

    There is no policy where the firefighters can't act without an officer. None. They can call for mutual aid. They can initiate action. Here's the problem ... They have very little experience at doing that at building fires as we get so few. The other issue is if there are no officers, the response is generally quite minimal so there is a limited number of actions they can take.

    We want them to take action. We want them to establish command and take charge, and we try to train them to do such time permitting by placing them in that role at drill. Problem is ,,,,, experience and opportunity.



    More excuses to not even TRY to save your wife...Pathetic.

    And exactly where did I say that I would not try to save her? Why don't you quote it for me.


    Which under your instruction will be never.

    Unfortunately, safe operations are limited due to the fact that outside of the village and the core area, we encounter very few structure fires where it is safe enough to make entry. When we have a situation where they can safely make entry, and we have the resources to support that, we will.

    And yet they still can't go interior, they still have to wait for an officer to arrive who may not arrive at all, and you see no point in which any of that will be resolved.

    And where did I say that they cannot go interior? They are all interior qualified if they have completed the rookie class.

    And they certainly can go interior if an officer is not on-scene, dependant on manpower and fire conditions.

    Again .... the problem is often either not enough manpower to do so safely or fire conditions that do not allow it.


    Yep, a complete lack of appropriate human emotions is a definite sign of mental illness.

    So what emotions would you likely to display exactly?
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  15. #490
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    No....... I'm simply tired of discussing why certain buildings kill firefighters, and why it's perfectly acceptable to not make entry.
    For someone that's tired of discussing something, you sure spend a lot of time discussing it.

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    150k may not be a lot when (if) you are responsible for purchasing/maintaining your own apparatus.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  17. #492
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    150k may not be a lot when (if) you are responsible for purchasing/maintaining your own apparatus.
    ... Which we are, for 5 stations, as required by the rating.

    In addition, if you are run by the city, they may very well pay for your workman's comp, liability insurance and vehicle insurance as well as some other admin costs that we may have to budget for.

    Some cities also pay for fuel and work done on the vehicles at the city shop.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 05-20-2013 at 10:38 AM.
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    so Lafe, did fairfax county, va do wrong with this one? It was vacant.

    News Release 13-56
    Date: May 20, 2013

    Fairfax County Fire and Rescue Department units responded to a building fire, Saturday, May 18, 2013, at approximately 10:25 a.m., in the Dunn Loring area of Fairfax County. The building, George C. Marshall High School is located at 7731 Leesburg Pike. Firefighters reported smoke coming from the school upon arrival. Firefighters conducted an aggressive fire attack and brought the fire under control in approximately 10 minutes.

    Five individuals working in the school were treated at the scene, not transported. Fire alarms activated, however, sprinklers did not activate because it was a flash fire only. According to fire investigators the cause is undetermined.

    Damage is estimated at $20,000.00

    School will open Monday on schedule.

  19. #494
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire71EMT View Post
    so Lafe, did fairfax county, va do wrong with this one? It was vacant.
    I'm sure that Fairfax County responded with significant resources, staffed by career and volunteer members with significant training and experience working within a very defined command structure.

    Most often, that is not the case with my VFD.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    More excuses to not even TRY to save your wife...Pathetic.

    And exactly where did I say that I would not try to save her? Why don't you quote it for me.
    OK, here you go.

    "I love my wife but I also have 4 kids in another state. Both my wife and kids are important but i will not die trying to save one and leave the other ones without a husband or a Dad."

    I only had to go back 1 page to find it.

  21. #496
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    OK, here you go.

    "I love my wife but I also have 4 kids in another state. Both my wife and kids are important but i will not die trying to save one and leave the other ones without a husband or a Dad."

    I only had to go back 1 page to find it.
    And again, where did I say that I would not try to save her?

    I stated that I would not die trying to save her. And I certainly don't expect any of my brothers to die trying to save her either.

    Nor would I expect them to die trying to save any other civilian, and as an IC or even a crew supervisor it's my responsibility to make sure that they are NEVER put in that position for anyone.

    I have the responsibility to bring them back to their famalies after every run.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I stated that I would not die trying to save her. And I certainly don't expect any of my brothers to die trying to save her either.

    Nor would I expect them to die trying to save any other civilian, and as an IC or even a crew supervisor it's my responsibility to make sure that they are NEVER put in that position for anyone.
    Therein lies the difference between you and real firefighters. I would die trying to save my loved ones. As a FC in charge of a crew we would move heaven and earth to save someone we thought was remotely viable and do even more to save a fellow crew member. And that was for the crew members we may or may not have liked as individuals. Even pathetic idiots like you.

    You may be shocked to know this, we took an oath and considered it our job.

    You on the other hand are one of those who works harder at finding ways to get out of working.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Therein lies the difference between you and real firefighters. I would die trying to save my loved ones. As a FC in charge of a crew we would move heaven and earth to save someone we thought was remotely viable and do even more to save a fellow crew member. And that was for the crew members we may or may not have liked as individuals. Even pathetic idiots like you.

    You may be shocked to know this, we took an oath and considered it our job.

    You on the other hand are one of those who works harder at finding ways to get out of working.
    A brother firefighter would likely be THAT exception.

    The fact is I never took an oath to die doing this job, and that is especially true of my volunteers..
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    A brother firefighter would likely be THAT exception.

    The fact is I never took an oath to die doing this job, and that is especially true of my volunteers..
    Thank you for continuing to let us know the difference between yourself and real firefighters. Thanks also for letting us know YOUR volunteers are just as pathetic as yourself.

    I'm glad to have worked with individuals who took the job seriously and not idiots like yourself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Thank you for continuing to let us know the difference between yourself and real firefighters. Thanks also for letting us know YOUR volunteers are just as pathetic as yourself.

    I'm glad to have worked with individuals who took the job seriously and not idiots like yourself.
    ...... And had significant financial protection for their famalies.

    But I know that has no significance to you.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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