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Thread: Hey LA! This one's for you!

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Therein lies the difference between you and real firefighters. I would die trying to save my loved ones. As a FC in charge of a crew we would move heaven and earth to save someone we thought was remotely viable and do even more to save a fellow crew member. And that was for the crew members we may or may not have liked as individuals. Even pathetic idiots like you.

    You may be shocked to know this, we took an oath and considered it our job.

    You on the other hand are one of those who works harder at finding ways to get out of working.
    When I read this , I almost forget you are a liberal
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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    When I read this , I almost forget you are a liberal
    Liberal or conservative... a firefighter is a firefighter.

    The job transcends politics.
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    Your right bones. We pay for the maintenance and if we don't get a grant we don't buy something unless we need to borrow money to do it. We aren't very busy at only 80-120 straight fire calls a year as we don't do EMS, the EMS is a POC outfit down the street. I guess everyone is different, I just tend to look at call volume and membership and wonder why it costs so much in other areas probably because of insurance and taxes and such.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    ...... And had significant financial protection for their famalies.

    But I know that has no significance to you.
    Funny. Now it's all about money. The vollies in my old department would make the same claims about how they were in it to serve their community but then whined like little school girls when their stipends got cut due to FLSA requirements.

    It's obvious you don't much about the mindset of real firefighters. When you are involved in an incident that might require an element of physical courage relating to saving another human being, the last thing going through your mind is whether or not there will be provisions for your family or the amount of one's pension.

    Run along LAFE. I'm sure there is some type of Pub Ed nonsense that requires your attention.
    Last edited by scfire86; 05-20-2013 at 05:32 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    Liberal or conservative... a firefighter is a firefighter.

    The job transcends politics.
    Yup. This discussion has nothing to do with political beliefs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Funny. Now it's all about money. The vollies in my old department would make the same claims about how they were it to serve their community but then whined like little school girls when their stipends got cut due to FLSA requirements.

    It's obvious you don't much about the mindset of real firefighters. When you are involved in an incident that might require an element of physical courage relating to saving another human being, the last thing going through your mind is whether or not there will be provisions for your family or the amount of one's pension.

    Run along LAFE. I'm sure there is some type of Pub Ed nonsense that requires your attention.
    Funny, it's not about the money, but it is about leaving their family of a volunteer member without a provider unless I am damn sure that the victim is viable, and that the rescue has a good chance of succeeding. And even then .....

    It is my job as an officer to think about the member's families, and the consequence's that my decision to go or no-go may have on them.

    The bottom line is that in my VFD, and to a lesser extent my combo department, victim viability is a major issue, and how much risk should be taken at a "potential" rescued, given the very legitimate question of viability due to our rural nature and extended response times is a very big question.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    Your right bones. We pay for the maintenance and if we don't get a grant we don't buy something unless we need to borrow money to do it. We aren't very busy at only 80-120 straight fire calls a year as we don't do EMS, the EMS is a POC outfit down the street. I guess everyone is different, I just tend to look at call volume and membership and wonder why it costs so much in other areas probably because of insurance and taxes and such.
    The total insurance bill for a fire department, with a station or two and 20-25 members, including workman's comp, liability and vehicle can easily be $40,000 - 60,000, or more, per year depending upon the state.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    150k may not be a lot when (if) you are responsible for purchasing/maintaining your own apparatus.
    We're responsible at $40k for purchasing and maintaining our apparatus.
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    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Funny, it's not about the money, but it is about leaving their family of a volunteer member without a provider unless I am damn sure that the victim is viable, and that the rescue has a good chance of succeeding. And even then .....
    The first part of your first sentence says it's not about money, then you contradict yourself in the second part. More pathetic nonsense. Just like the vollies in my old department. They would claim they took the same risks as the professionals for no pay. When the reality is they would typically run the other way or not show up at all when real work was needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    It is my job as an officer to think about the member's families, and the consequence's that my decision to go or no-go may have on them.
    Please stop calling yourself an officer. Your a pathetic POC that wears a uniform. I know officers in the fire service, you don't qualify.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    The bottom line is that in my VFD, and to a lesser extent my combo department, victim viability is a major issue, and how much risk should be taken at a "potential" rescued, given the very legitimate question of viability due to our rural nature and extended response times is a very big question.
    The bottom line is that you are a pathetic fool who knows nothing about firefighting or what it entails.

    What has finally occurred to me is that I shouldn't feel sorry for those who have to listen to your pathetic idiocy. More than likely, you are the best that community has to offer.
    Last edited by scfire86; 05-20-2013 at 08:25 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And again, where did I say that I would not try to save her?

    I stated that I would not die trying to save her. And I certainly don't expect any of my brothers to die trying to save her either.
    Well, if you want to get hyper-technical, you didn't say the exact words. However, given your past statements enumerating your reluctance to attempt to rescue a person without having PPE at your disposal and your general reluctance to attempt any sort of interior operations at fires, I think most on here would agree that your statement implies that any attempt to rescue a family member would be half-hearted at best and likely go no further than a few steps inside the front door. And that sounds an awful lot like not actually trying to save them.

    Nor would I expect them to die trying to save any other civilian, and as an IC or even a crew supervisor it's my responsibility to make sure that they are NEVER put in that position for anyone.

    I have the responsibility to bring them back to their famalies after every run.
    What about your responsibility (as firefighter/fire department) to the community you serve?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    The fact is I never took an oath to die doing this job, and that is especially true of my volunteers..
    Hey Einstein, NO firefighter has ever taken an oath to die doing the job! Many, particularly career firefighters, have taken an oath to serve the community and perform the duties that encompasses being a firefighter in that community. Unfortunately, sometimes firefighters die while performing those duties, but nobody sets out to die in the line of duty with the possible exception of someone battling mental problems.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Yup. This discussion has nothing to do with political beliefs.
    sorry guys -my attempt at sarcasm -------guess i need to insert some of those stupid little faces
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    Well, if you want to get hyper-technical, you didn't say the exact words. However, given your past statements enumerating your reluctance to attempt to rescue a person without having PPE at your disposal and your general reluctance to attempt any sort of interior operations at fires, I think most on here would agree that your statement implies that any attempt to rescue a family member would be half-hearted at best and likely go no further than a few steps inside the front door. And that sounds an awful lot like not actually trying to save them.

    My wife has no issues about what I would attempt to do to save her.

    That being said, I have no beliefs that any firefighter should make the same efforts


    What about your responsibility (as firefighter/fire department) to the community you serve?

    We should train, prepare and respond effectively.

    And that should include our best effort but should not include putting us in a position where death is a possibility.

    And yes, that meets our responsibility to the community.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post

    We should train, prepare and respond effectively.

    You've made it very clear you do none of the above.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And that should include our best effort but should not include putting us in a position where death is a possibility.

    Your best may require that type of action and you may not even know it till after its happened. I'm not worried since you'll be too busy handing out vests while walking around the lawn instead.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And yes, that meets our responsibility to the community.
    Poor folks. They are so screwed and probably have no idea.
    Last edited by scfire86; 05-20-2013 at 09:20 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post

    We should train, prepare and respond effectively.

    And that should include our best effort but should not include putting us in a position where death is a possibility.

    And yes, that meets our responsibility to the community.
    Hello, McFly. We are in a "position where death is a possibility" every time we leave the station.

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    And that should include our best effort but should not include putting us in a position where death is a possibility.
    Well if that's the case, you should probably keep your yellow ***** safely on the couch. As more people are killed using stairs in their home, leaving for a call has a greater chance of putting you in a position where death is a possibility then any sort of firefighting tasks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Of course this is all you have to say because writing off building before you arrive, and writing off buildings simply because of construction type, with no other information is simply indefensible.

    No....... I'm simply tired of discussing why certain buildings kill firefighters, and why it's perfectly acceptable to not make entry..


    It is nothing more than a sign of an untrained, unskilled, inexperienced, wannabe Incident Commander, to write off a building and its occupants before even arriving on scene. My scenario of a garbage can fire is entirely realistic if you blindly write the building off before even arriving on scene.

    it is just another excuse for your inaction.

    So the only officer responding takes 18-20 minutes to arrive on scene, as an example vs. 8 or 9, and you are saying that 's not a factor on the outcome of the incident, especially when the non-officers have almost zero command experience less one or two?

    To me this is just another example of how pathetic your volly FD is. You have a policy that your vollies can't act without an officer on location and sometimes, as you have admitted, there may be no officer at all responding. So what do they do? Show up, stand around and then leave when the place burns down?


    There is no policy where the firefighters can't act without an officer. None. They can call for mutual aid. They can initiate action. Here's the problem ... They have very little experience at doing that at building fires as we get so few. The other issue is if there are no officers, the response is generally quite minimal so there is a limited number of actions they can take.

    We want them to take action. We want them to establish command and take charge, and we try to train them to do such time permitting by placing them in that role at drill. Problem is ,,,,, experience and opportunity.


    Another bunch of nonsense from you. Which pathetic fairy tale is right? You don't want them to go interior without and officer on scene, or they can if they deem it apropriate? AND if they do act they live with the knowledge that unless they stay outon the lawn you will chastise them. What a frigging joke you are.

    More excuses to not even TRY to save your wife...Pathetic.

    And exactly where did I say that I would not try to save her? Why don't you quote it for me.

    Bobby you said repeatedly, if YOU deemed conditions too dangerous YOU wwouldn't allow anyone, which presumably includes you, to try to save her. And then there is this little gem...

    I love my wife but I also have 4 kids in another state. Both my wife and kids are important but i will not die trying to save one and leave the other ones without a husband or a Dad.
    Which under your instruction will be never.

    Unfortunately, safe operations are limited due to the fact that outside of the village and the core area, we encounter very few structure fires where it is safe enough to make entry. When we have a situation where they can safely make entry, and we have the resources to support that, we will.

    So basically by your rules that means never...we get it.

    And yet they still can't go interior, they still have to wait for an officer to arrive who may not arrive at all, and you see no point in which any of that will be resolved.

    And where did I say that they cannot go interior? They are all interior qualified if they have completed the rookie class.

    And they certainly can go interior if an officer is not on-scene, dependant on manpower and fire conditions.

    Again .... the problem is often either not enough manpower to do so safely or fire conditions that do not allow it.

    And yet the story changes once again...


    Yep, a complete lack of appropriate human emotions is a definite sign of mental illness.

    So what emotions would you likely to display exactly?

    Empathy...not cold hearted F*** YOU you are dead can I go to bed now. You see, empathy is a comon human emotion. It doesn't mean you fall apart, it doesn't mean you are weak. It means you are a normal human being not a damn machine.
    You are a pathetic train wreck.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfd1992 View Post
    For someone that's tired of discussing something, you sure spend a lot of time discussing it.
    Which is funny because he can't discuss it from a knowledge or logic based standpoint.
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    Posted by LAFE...

    And that should include our best effort but should not include putting us in a position where death is a possibility.
    Posted by SPFDRum
    Well if that's the case, you should probably keep your yellow ***** safely on the couch.
    He could fall of the couch and get hurt...
    Last edited by DeputyChiefGonzo; 05-21-2013 at 03:55 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    Hello, McFly. We are in a "position where death is a possibility" every time we leave the station.
    Well said.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Hey LA, what do you think of your vol. dept.? Where are they at in developing into an effective fighting force. What have you done to further their development? What have they done to further their development? Where are they at bottom, middle, top? Do you have any responsibility in their development? Do they? Does anyone ask these questions at your dept.? I have asked them at mine. You have no unique problems. None.
    I have heard good leaders ask from time to time if anyone in our dept. is content with the way things are. If people are content then the drive to learn has gone. They don't want to make sacrifices of their personal time and don't care that others may depend on them. There are not very many volunteer depts. where the minimum training hours develop proficient or even competent firefighters. A leader that tells the members that it is okay to strive for the lowest training level is selling his dept. short. Remember the movie Office Space? I look at firefighting like having pieces of flair on your vest. Sure you can get by with the minimum pieces of flair, and even call yourself a firefighter, but gee, wouldn't you like to have more pieces of flair? That probably does not make any sense, but my mind kind of works in a screwball fashion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    [B]Hey LA, what do you think of your vol. dept.? Where are they at in developing into an effective fighting force.[/B] Improving.[/COLOR] What have you done to further their development? Increased the complexity and difficulty of weekly training. Developed and implemented a rookie class. Attended outside training with them as an example.. What have they done to further their development? Several of the members have attended outside classes. Several of the members have attended more of the weekly training. Three of the members have either tested out or scheduled to test out FFI.Where are they at bottom, middle, top? We are as good as any volunteer department in the parish, with the exception of the neighboring city combo department, and better than several. All of the parish VFDs suffer from lack of manpower, and many are far worse off than us in terms of interior manpower. Do you have any responsibility in their development? I assist the training officer in developing and delivering training. Do they? Does anyone ask these questions at your dept.? A few. I have asked them at mine. You have no unique problems. None.
    I have heard good leaders ask from time to time if anyone in our dept. is content with the way things are. If people are content then the drive to learn has gone. They don't want to make sacrifices of their personal time and don't care that others may depend on them. There are not very many volunteer depts. where the minimum training hours develop proficient or even competent firefighters. A leader that tells the members that it is okay to strive for the lowest training level is selling his dept. short. Remember the movie Office Space? I look at firefighting like having pieces of flair on your vest. Sure you can get by with the minimum pieces of flair, and even call yourself a firefighter, but gee, wouldn't you like to have more pieces of flair? That probably does not make any sense, but my mind kind of works in a screwball fashion.
    The fact is we are a rural VFD that for many years was fairly complacent regarding training and would take anyone who walked through the door, and mandated very little of them.

    New Chief. We have actually declined to offer membership to three folks in the last 2 years as they simply didn't meet his standards. We now enforce training standards which is a significant change and has led to 4 older members being told bye-bye in the last 18 months.

    They getting better, but many times they put stuff ahead of the fire department.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 05-21-2013 at 12:10 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    They getting better, but many times they put stuff ahead of the fire department.
    Thank you for continuing to confirm the fact that your VFD is comprised of pathetic souls like yourself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    Remember the movie Office Space? I look at firefighting like having pieces of flair on your vest. Sure you can get by with the minimum pieces of flair, and even call yourself a firefighter, but gee, wouldn't you like to have more pieces of flair? That probably does not make any sense, but my mind kind of works in a screwball fashion.
    I'm sure beyond a shadow of a doubt that you're a screwball, BUT, that office space reference is spot on for anyone who has seen and remembers that part of the movie.

    You can do the bare minimum, slide by, and hope for the best, or you can go above and beyond to make sure you're the best you can be when your community needs you.
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    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    It is my job as an officer to think about the member's families, and the consequence's that my decision to go or no-go may have on them.
    No, no it's really not.... In a way, yeah, every officer is basing their operations on the desire to send everyone of his/her firefighters home, but they aren't making a go-no go decision like yours.

    Jim-Bob's mortgage isn't on my mind. Taking Jim-Bob inside (WHEN WARRANTED), knocking down and extinguishing the fire, and mitigating the emergency for which we were called in a SAFE and effective manner so Jim-Bob can go home is what's on my mind.

    The problem is your priorities. They are so beyond fu*ked up that I don't understand why your members still allow you to be in a position of influence over your department.
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

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