So again LAFE, I ask - are you going to no longer apply for any of the Assistance to Firefighters grant series, as they specifically ask what your plans are for getting your people up to state or NFPA standards?
Skills are essentially either "basic", "intermediate" or "advanced". The fact that a particular skill in FF1 is not applicable to a specific community or a fire department lacks a specific piece of equipment necessary to perform a specific skill doesn't make it an "intermediate" or "advanced" skill.
OK, there's two ways to go with this. 1) If certification is a legal requirement to do a job, then certification is absolutely necessary. 2) If certification is not a legal requirement to do a job, then it's certainly possible that a person could be capable of doing the job without possessing the actual certification.Quote:
So why should we train on skills we'll never use?
To me training for certification alone is not a valid reason unless the student(s) has chosen that hey want to pursue certification.
If by this you mean learning just enough to scrape by on the certification test and then forgetting what you learned then, yes, that would be asinine. However, training in order to prepare for certification testing and future use is exactly what one should be doing.
Assuming that you believe that certification is necessary to do the job.
I don't. Certification should be the choice of the member.
Certification as a firefighter should not be a choice, it should be a requirement just like PD and EMS.
Yes, we know.Quote:
So does everybody else on here. We just happen to also think that firefighters should be certified as firefighters.
And I don't believe certification is necessary. Likely never will.
Most VFDs want to be viewed as "professionals". Professionals have credentials (i.e. certification, licensure, degrees, etc.). As such, the VFD should want their personnel to be certified.Quote:
The member shouldn't be the driver for certification, it should be the department.
Disagree. It's the member's time, not the fire department's.
I don't have the time to tech certification material, simply for the sake of certification, during the limited weekly training nights I have at my VFD. I need to spend that time teaching and training on operational topics and materials. Yes, given 45 training nights a year, it is one area- operations.
We have discussed my feelings on certification before. I fully support every member choosing to become certified in whatever they wish. I encourage it. And my combo departments rewards it (my VFD is working on a reward system to be implemented soon).
The simple fact is though that as a rookie class in a rural VFD FFI/FFII does not do a very good job and is not an efficient use of their time. The class is simply too generalized and contains info that they don't need. And there are topics where there needs to be far more material.
As a secondary class after the rookie class completed, it has purpose and has significant value for those looking to promote or take on additional responsibility in the rural fire service.
Funny thing s I'm taking another cert test next week ... And this one will likely never garner incentive pay at my FT gig.
To be perfectly honest with you, if my department had a policy about firearms on the premise, or transporting wasn't as easy as it was, I would just take my case out to my stand with me and lock it up out there if I had a fire call.
EDIT: I see you're in New Jersey... As far as gun laws are concerned, I can see where you're question came from. What what I understand NJ isn't exactly a pro-gun state. From what I understand, they aren't anti-gun, but there are more hoops to jump through, such as a firearms purchaser ID card for long guns, a pistol purchase permit that's only good for what 90 days, and if you haven't gotten your pistol in that 90 days it expires and you have to reapply, and they are a "may-issue" CCW state and they lean more to won't issue than will issue. (As far as I understand it from talking to some gun owners from NJ)
What I don't get is saying you might never use the information so you should not have to learn it. Would that be the same as saying that your town does not have a four way stop or street lights so you tell the driving examiner you should not have to learn about that stuff?
I want my rookies to know how to do the job with my tools and equipment in my community. After they master the ability to perform those skills, I'll worry about training them to think outside of MY COMMUNITY'S box.
I do believe that rookie training should be department-specific.
In a rural community, I see FFI as a generalized course which should follow department-specific rookie training.
But that doesn't fit with your agenda, so I see why you've overlooked this point 4 or 5 times now.
Having grown up with that mindset, I just can't imagine not having that foundation to build on.