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Thread: Hey LA! This one's for you!

  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    But that doesn't mean that we have to stand in the yard. Why do you put yourself above the public who calls us for HELP?

    No, but standing in the yard functioning as command makes the incident better. And more importantly, it protects the members.

    And we are the priority.


    I don't believe you.

    NIMS 100-400. IFSAC Officer I. NIMS Incident Command for Catastrophic Incidents.Incident Command foir Wildland Incidents. Those are just some of the ICS classes I have taken. Oh, and I am also IFSAC certified as an Haz-Mat Incident Commander.


    As I said I would be working to change that. No reason that the initial officer can't conduct interior operations when property conservation is a viable option. No need to burn the whole house down

    I would be if I agreed that the only officer being inside the structure attempting to function as the IC while operating inside was actually a good idea. I don't. The IC needs to be an IC ... Not an IC and a firefighter.

    Again, I don't believe you. And Again, more excuses.

    Don't really care if you believe me or not.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    We had interior commands all the time. Everyone went home.
    And you likely also had a Battalion or District Chief coming in.

    Very often, that's not the case with us, or many VFDs.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I have taken a whole range of IC/NIMS classes, and not only am I very familiar with the concept of "working command", but I have used it many times.

    That being said, the Chief is my boss, and the Chief does not want his IC inside the structure, so we do not use "working command" unless the IC must make entry to effect a rescue.

    Again, I have used it. And again, I until recently, had no issues, but given the changes in both fire behavior and building construction, I now believe that somebody operating interior cannot safely operate as the IC.

    We are the priority.
    Okay, thanks for clarifying it. You are that damn stupid.
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  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Okay, thanks for clarifying it. You are that damn stupid.
    Yupppppppppppppppppppp....
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  5. #205
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    we call it 'fast attack" - or "passing command" -to pass on doing it, in the right conditions , to me seems like an excuse to let it escalate so you do have to fill the veats.
    ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Yupppppppppppppppppppp....
    That's all you have when you continue to spout absolute nonsense about how working command works and the transfer of command to the next arriving officer or senior man. You AND your chief have absolutely no sense of how working command works and how it could very well be the difference in saving LIVES and property in the initial stages of an incident.

    So stand there smuggly and say YUP like it makes you seem the genius you pretend you are. It is sad how someone with all the training you say you have has no clue what much of it actually means.
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    If a person does not have the aptitude to apply the flexibility built into the ICS system they will always be hamstrung on the fireground. It is starting to seem intentional for some, as in not having to do the job they signed up for. A social or book club would seem a better fit for these types of people.
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  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    NIMS 100-400. IFSAC Officer I. NIMS Incident Command for Catastrophic Incidents.Incident Command foir Wildland Incidents. Those are just some of the ICS classes I have taken. Oh, and I am also IFSAC certified as an Haz-Mat Incident Commander.

    You never pass on an opportunity to post your resume and try to justify that you know better than everyone else, do you?


    Don't really care if you believe me or not.
    Yes you do. you absolutely care if I believe you. Otherwise you wouldn't sit here and and try to justify your cowardly actions on a daily basis.
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Yupppppppppppppppppppp....
    Been watching storage wars ???????????????
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    ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And you likely also had a Battalion or District Chief coming in.

    Very often, that's not the case with us, or many VFDs.
    I didn't have a BC or DC coming in, and we still manage to utilize working command, attack the fire aggressively from the inside, put the fire out, save the homeowners property and possessions, and, EVERYONE WENT HOME UNINJURED

    Huh, who'da thunk it to be possible on a small POC FD....
    Last edited by Chenzo; 05-12-2013 at 01:25 AM.
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

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    As someone who in my early years actually worked under a form of firescope, watched it evolve into NIIMS, and then into NIMS -I really get a kick out of people like la that really dont have a clue on how flexible NIMS was meant to be, and have never really seen it work in real world conditions. They screech nimsnims like a parrot, WHEN it fits their agenda.
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    ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And you have a problem with departments that may choose or are forced to operate primarily exterior?

    You don't think they are fireman?

    Ignorant.
    Yes I do. Every single one of us took an oath to protect life and property, not the foundation, and not to stand outside while there are victims trapped inside. No department is FORCED to operate as an exterior department. They choose to do so because of lack of training, which is turn goes to **** poor leadership.

    You have gone on and on about rural volunteer departments not being able to do this or that. This is where I prove you wrong. My department is located in northeast Pennsylvania. Our first due coverage area is just over 25 square miles with just over 1,800 residents. During summer the number jumps to around 2,500 with all the vacation homes. Our 2nd due coverage area stretches into 2 other counties in 4 other communities, and 3rd due into 3 other communities, ALL rural departments.

    My department has 4 line officers, Chief, Asst. Chief, Captain, and myself the Lieutenant, and 6 active members. Never once did we not attempt an aggressive interior attack, in any of the areas we respond to. We have great leaders, experienced firefighters that help the new guys get experience, and we train our asses off.

    Somewhere I remember reading you saying something about live fire training facilities are a good distance from you. The closest facility to us is an hour away, others are 3+ hours away. We have a VERY tight operating budget, yet we still manage to make sure our members get the training they need and want.

    I've managed to shoot down every point you've attempted to make in your nonsense. What it comes down to is you are a **** poor leader, a selfish bastard, and a chicken****.




    Oh and can't forget the fact that we haven't had a LODD or injury in over 10+ years.
    Last edited by RyanK63; 05-12-2013 at 01:31 AM.
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    So if interior attack is too dangerous and can never be made safe what about MVA's? Does your department respond to these events? Do you have spreaders, cutters, rams, saws? A bunch of firefighters and cops get killed on the hiways every year but I have never heard of anyone leaving a victim in the wreckage because it was too dangerous. How can you be just fine with leaving someone to burn up in a house? When do you decide who lives and who dies?
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    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    So if interior attack is too dangerous and can never be made safe what about MVA's? Does your department respond to these events? Do you have spreaders, cutters, rams, saws? A bunch of firefighters and cops get killed on the hiways every year but I have never heard of anyone leaving a victim in the wreckage because it was too dangerous. How can you be just fine with leaving someone to burn up in a house? When do you decide who lives and who dies?
    He's already said he'd let a child burn to death in a car if he came upon it in his POV, and wasn't properly equipped.....

    So what does that tell you?
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    He's already said he'd let a child burn to death in a car if he came upon it in his POV, and wasn't properly equipped.....

    So what does that tell you?
    Yeah, one of those time I knew the answer right after I hit the button. I just cant wrap my leatherhead around it.
    Last edited by conrad427; 05-12-2013 at 02:24 AM.

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    I've taken ICS 300-400 and they were pretty easy.. Really didn't pay attention and got praised by the instructors for my performance.. RyanK you might now him.. He's out of factoryville I believe..

    Anyways..

    If you are afraid of getting shot, don't be a cop, if you afraid of getting blown into pink mist on the side of a highway don't go in the army..

    And if you're afraid of getting burnt don't be a firefighter..

    If you're scared, say you're scared.

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigGriffC12 View Post
    I've taken ICS 300-400 and they were pretty easy.. Really didn't pay attention and got praised by the instructors for my performance.. RyanK you might now him.. He's out of factoryville I believe
    Good chance of it. Factoryville is the town over from us and I know most of the instructors up here. Lots of great guys and lots of experience.
    "If it was easy, someone else would of done it already." - Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanK63 View Post
    Good chance of it. Factoryville is the town over from us and I know most of the instructors up here. Lots of great guys and lots of experience.
    Bigger fella.. Think his name might be.. Kevin? Could be wrong.. Was over a year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigGriffC12 View Post
    Bigger fella.. Think his name might be.. Kevin? Could be wrong.. Was over a year.
    Know exactly who you're talking about. Great guy, and knows his **** when it comes to command and EMS work. He is the Capt. over there now.
    "If it was easy, someone else would of done it already." - Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    - Firefighter 1 / HAZMAT Ops / EMT-B

  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Yupppppppppppppppppppp....
    Name:  408133_645537155461932_1702279331_n.jpg
Views: 134
Size:  28.3 KB

    Just saying....
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  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    Yes you do. you absolutely care if I believe you. Otherwise you wouldn't sit here and and try to justify your cowardly actions on a daily basis.
    Wouldn't have "posted my resume" unless somebody questioned my ICS/NIMS training.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  22. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    I didn't have a BC or DC coming in, and we still manage to utilize working command, attack the fire aggressively from the inside, put the fire out, save the homeowners property and possessions, and, EVERYONE WENT HOME UNINJURED

    Huh, who'da thunk it to be possible on a small POC FD....
    Sure it's possible. Departments do it every day, and most of the time it works.

    But all it takes is that one time when the IC isn't outside to notice changes is smoke or fire behavior. Or misses a critical radio transmission because he's inside performing fire attack, which is very easy with us as we have different departments coming in often on different frequencies,especially if he is the most experienced and feels that he needs to be on the nozzle.

    Again, I have used it many, many times. I made a decision not to use it a couple of years ago after realizing that fire conditions can change too fast with today's new fires for command to be interior. And my Chief sees the same thing.

    That is how, as a department we have decided to, or not to operate. If you feel safe operating that way, have at it.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  23. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    Been watching storage wars ???????????????
    Just the reruns.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  24. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    As someone who in my early years actually worked under a form of firescope, watched it evolve into NIIMS, and then into NIMS -I really get a kick out of people like la that really dont have a clue on how flexible NIMS was meant to be, and have never really seen it work in real world conditions. They screech nimsnims like a parrot, WHEN it fits their agenda.
    I fully understand how flexible it can be. This sin't about that.

    It's about me wanting to be able to watch the fire from the outside. Wanting to be able to notice changing fire conditions as they happen so I can pull my crews fast if I feel it's going bad.

    I want to be able to interface with my mutual aid face-to-face, not via radio. I want to be able to monitor a couple of radios as if I have my combo department coming in I can talk to them (analog v. digital radio systems) without trying to talk on 2 radios and performing fire attack.

    I want to be able to do my own 360 a minute or two into the fire attack.

    I don't believe that you can control fire attack operations from the interior. And my VFD Chief agrees.

    Being IC is about being command and control. You can't control the operation from a handline.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  25. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Wouldn't have "posted my resume" unless somebody questioned my ICS/NIMS training.
    Just because you have a folder full of certs and classes doesn't mean you have any clue what in the hell you're talking about, or how to function on the fire ground.

    And based on your posts here, it's quite clear all those fancy pieces of paper are just for show.
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

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