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Thread: Muslim females and head coverings

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    Exclamation Muslim females and head coverings

    This should draw some good responses.


    What are any thoughts about Muslim females in the fire service using Burka's and the fire service?


    This being unveiled, including full-length skirts, hijab headscarf's and long- sleeved shirts for Muslim women recruits. If and when they are hired what are department handling this situation?


    Read more:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz2VvCCMDbF
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    This should draw some good responses.


    What are any thoughts about Muslim females in the fire service using Burka's and the fire service?


    This being unveiled, including full-length skirts, hijab headscarf's and long- sleeved shirts for Muslim women recruits. If and when they are hired what are department handling this situation?


    Read more:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz2VvCCMDbF
    If it doesn't interfere with wearing PPE then I don't see an issue. Obviously I'm sure that the dept. has a dress code for safety and uniformity and that should be known from the get go..

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    This should draw some good responses.


    What are any thoughts about Muslim females in the fire service using Burka's and the fire service?


    This being unveiled, including full-length skirts, hijab headscarf's and long- sleeved shirts for Muslim women recruits. If and when they are hired what are department handling this situation?


    Read more:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz2VvCCMDbF
    It certainly presents an complex situation.

    From strictly a US perspective, the freedom of religion afforded in the Constitution and various legal precedents says that the employer is obligated to make reasonable accommodations in this area. One such example is the wearing of beards by Muslim males, based on the demonstrated ability to maintain an adequate SCBA mask seal.

    On the other hand, and I'm just throwing this out there, the recent Citizens United ruling by the SCOTUS held that corporations had 1st amendment rights and therefore had the right to make political donations as if it were an individual. If a corporation has "individual" 1st amendment rights, could they also have freedom of religion to the point that they can insist on a workplace that does not allow an individual to impose their religion (via religious practices) on the employer or other employees?

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    Is it nomex or nfpa standard approved

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    Nomex burka. Problem solved.

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    Realizing we're typically public "employers" as the FD, we seem to have a special set of rules. nearly anywhere in the private sector an employer can set the work rules and new hires seeking employment must abide by them. That's how I'd hope it would go. The fire service and most FD's have strict guidelines for dress (ie: uniforms, grooming standards, etc) some of these are borne of safety other as part of our history and culture, which may not mean much to some court, but has significant bearing on the overall organization of our paramilitary structure. Basically, here's the rules, you want a job, you meet the requirements, otherwise **** off.

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    Some of you guys are so ugly, you ought to be wearing a burka 24/7.

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    A uniform is a part of the job, and as ours are made with a nomex blend, they are part of the PPE. So Burka's are plain out. There's no way a woman wearing a Burka can put on bunker pants, not to mention any woman wearing a burka wouldn't be able to sleep in a bunk room with men she is not married to. It's a moot point.
    bcjack likes this.

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    So I do not come across as a complete bigot, I would support any one, of any race, creed or sex to become a firefighter, provided that they pass the same entrance tests and physical ability requirements. I do support the rights to express your religion, any religion, as long as it does not interfere with the duties of your job or place an unreasonable workplace demands on your employer or coworkers.

    I would have nothing against the woman wearing her head dress, and long sleeve shirt. Make them wear pants for job function. They would still be covered within their religious requirements just more able to function at work. If you are pursuing a non-traditional job role as a Muslim female, you probably need to make some non-traditional concessions.

    I understand also that the Muslim female is probably not the one making it an issue. For her to step out of the norms of her culture already by having a firefighting job proves it. But that is another story.
    bcjack likes this.
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    The original Daily Mail story cited in this thread is dated March 2009.

    Google (for me) doesn't find any recent stories. Wonder how the uniforms worked out?

    mjl

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleman View Post
    Some of you guys are so ugly, you ought to be wearing a burka 24/7.
    I'm only half ugly.. can I wear a hijab?
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    I'm only half ugly.. can I wear a hijab?
    On which half?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    On which half?
    You choose!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    On which half?
    You choose!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Some years ago Firehouse had an article about a bunch of Monks in the OKC area who were firefighters. They managed to get by with their robes and all.

    I think they had beards, but the facial hair/facepiece requirement was still in the future at that time.
    Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

    Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

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    I would think the complaint FD uniform would be a moot point- any Muslim woman who is that orthodox would not likely be allowed to sleep under the same roof as men not in her family anyway.

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