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Thread: Lt. Ray hits another home run!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Maybe there is no interest due to who is writing them...
    Always a possibility, but given that I have been asked to teach several RIT classes parish-wide .......
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Always a possibility, but given that I have been asked to teach several RIT classes parish-wide .......
    How hard is it to ddo RIT with everyone out on the front lawn? What's the worst that happens? Someone gets lost between the engine and the house?
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    How hard is it to ddo RIT with everyone out on the front lawn? What's the worst that happens? Someone gets lost between the engine and the house?
    Funny haha ........
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    Well, he has to teach all the classes he can before his hero "Dr." Clark replaces all known firefighting tactics with sprinklers over night.
    The fire service is about service to our fellow man.
    There is a trust that must not be broken and we are the keepers of that trust.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Funny haha ........
    Yeah, La, it was a belly laugh moment! Snot on the screen again!
    The fire service is about service to our fellow man.
    There is a trust that must not be broken and we are the keepers of that trust.
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    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    Well, he has to teach all the classes he can before his hero "Dr." Clark replaces all known firefighting tactics with sprinklers over night.
    And in the end, pushing for sprinklers and sprinkler ordinances is the best thing that a fire department can do to protect it's citizens.

    Obviously that does nothing for existing structures, so yes, we still will have fires.

    As far as Dr. Clark being my "hero" ..... No. I have no heroes in the fire service, but he does make some very good points regarding the culture of the fire service and some things that do need to change.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Always a possibility, but given that I have been asked to teach several RIT classes parish-wide .......
    To perform a RIT operation, one has to enter the building under adverse and dangerous conditions.. something that you through your posts have shown that you would not do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And in the end, pushing for sprinklers and sprinkler ordinances is the best thing that a fire department can do to protect it's citizens.

    Obviously that does nothing for existing structures, so yes, we still will have fires.
    ...
    Yes, pushing for sprinklers and sprinkler ordinances is a good thing to do. Best thing? Not even close.

    and you yourself explain why its far from the best thing we can do with the last line I quoted you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And in the end, pushing for sprinklers and sprinkler ordinances is the best thing that a fire department can do to protect it's citizens.

    No ones arguing against sprinklers. You're not going to change the topic again, so you can fail at making yourself look good, so knock that schitt off.

    Obviously that does nothing for existing structures, so yes, we still will have fires.

    That you will refuse to put out, that you will refuse to use all of your "training" at. But you'll "duck inside for 20-30 seconds" with no hose line so you can "see what's going on." Why exactly do you need to duck inside to see that you are in fact burning the house down? I'm pretty sure that's evident from the exterior. Oh, and um, yeah, what are you gonna do if something happens while you're inside and you get injured or trapped and there's no one to come help you?

    As far as Dr. Clark being my "hero" ..... No. I have no heroes in the fire service.

    That doesn't surprise me at all. In order for you to have a hero in the fire service, there would have to be more people with your pathetic mindset.

    but he does make some very good points regarding the culture of the fire service and some things that do need to change.

    Nothing needs to be changed to the point that the entire fire service as a whole gets beat down to your pathetic level so you can look important and tell everyone you were operating this way before it was the norm.
    Good try at diversion with the sprinkler comment, not gonna work though, as no one is arguing against them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Yes, pushing for sprinklers and sprinkler ordinances is a good thing to do. Best thing? Not even close.

    and you yourself explain why its far from the best thing we can do with the last line I quoted you.
    It does little for the current problem, but if every structure is mandated to have sprinklers it does reduce the volume of fires long-term, and will at some point have an affect on the amount of fires that occur. It also will, in the long term, reduce suppression needs.

    Certainly if the ordinance is also tied to modifications and refurbs, that will also have an greater affect on the fire problem.
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    No ones arguing against sprinklers. You're not going to change the topic again, so you can fail at making yourself look good, so knock that schitt off.

    That was apart of the discussion, though it does go back to culture.

    Have I seen many a department fight tooth and nail for suppression needs but not put any efforts into pushing a sprinkler ordinance.



    That you will refuse to put out, that you will refuse to use all of your "training" at.


    And where have I said that we will refuse to put them out?

    Oh that's right ... More twisting and contorting of my words.


    But you'll "duck inside for 20-30 seconds" with no hose line so you can "see what's going on." Why exactly do you need to duck inside to see that you are in fact burning the house down?

    Yup, that's what we do .. Burn houses down. Which is why that of our last 4 building fires over the last 2 years, 50% of the buildings were repaired and reoccupied.

    Probably sucks when I bring up facts like that.


    I'm pretty sure that's evident from the exterior. Oh, and um, yeah, what are you gonna do if something happens while you're inside and you get injured or trapped and there's no one to come help you?

    Funny thing that often the one interior firefighter who is also on scene will be at the door with me, also with an SCBA, and often with a handline or the 2 1/2" line because I may decide this will be the best place to hit it with an exterior line. Or if my exterior guy is hitting it from the window, I'll tell my pump operator exactly where I will be, what I am doing and that he doesn't see me come out in 15 or 20 seconds to have somebody take a look in the door.

    it's really not that complicated.

    You see this just isn't to take a look for the hell of it. It's to decide the best place for that exterior line to go to work.

    Ya, I just freelance.



    That doesn't surprise me at all. In order for you to have a hero in the fire service, there would have to be more people with your pathetic mindset.

    There are more people than you think that understand that much of what we are doing is tied to the traditions of the fire service and not necessarily to any significant gain.


    but he does make some very good points regarding the culture of the fire service and some things that do need to change.

    Nothing needs to be changed to the point that the entire fire service as a whole gets beat down to your pathetic level so you can look important and tell everyone you were operating this way before it was the norm.

    I disagree. A lot needs to be changed in the fire service.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 06-25-2013 at 03:21 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    It does little for the current problem, but if every structure is mandated to have sprinklers it does reduce the volume of fires long-term, and will at some point have an affect on the amount of fires that occur. It also will, in the long term, reduce suppression needs.

    Certainly if the ordinance is also tied to modifications and refurbs, that will also have an greater affect on the fire problem.
    But to answer this, one must first decide the age old question "Should go-carts be required to have seat belts in them"? I mean motorcycles don't have seat belts, and bacon tastes good but studies have shown that roller skates aren't tractors and should not be treated like window panes. How would you feel if one of your members showed up with warts? Should he be restricted to inner tube? Or will he be permitted to function in a normal capacity as pizza? What about dog collars? Are they allowed on the cement mixer? There are laws in place that are specifically designed to bikini underwear. The fact is that being said we owe it to the citizens to lazy Susan any time we piano.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Always a possibility, but given that I have been asked to teach several RIT classes parish-wide .......
    I would be interested in exactly what you teach in a RIT class since your philosophy seems to be never committing personnel to an area you deem unsafe. In my experience any time firefighters require RIT intervention they are in an unsafe area.

    You're very quick to write off civilians as "already gone" which leads me to believe you wouldn't have much trouble classifying your fellow firefighters in the same way. What exactly do your RIT classes consist of?
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Always a possibility, but given that I have been asked to teach several RIT classes parish-wide .......

    Scary thought.

    Tell us, then; what is your philosophy on trying to rescue trapped firefighters? Seeing as the majority of incidents that require rapid intervention are a result of something bad happening at a fire, such as a member thru a floor, catastrophic building failure, etc…what exactly are you going to do? Stand outside and claim it’s “not your problem”? “They went in, not my issue”?

    Seriously, the close calls that I am familiar with in recent years, here, have all involved some type of significant problem with the building trapping members. The removal of the members in distress happened under far less than ideal conditions for the rescuers, resulting in some injuries.

    What exactly are you going to do? You’ve clearly demonstrated and articulated on here that you are only concerned with yourself; why would any one listen to you?
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowball View Post
    But to answer this, one must first decide the age old question "Should go-carts be required to have seat belts in them"? I mean motorcycles don't have seat belts, and bacon tastes good but studies have shown that roller skates aren't tractors and should not be treated like window panes. How would you feel if one of your members showed up with warts? Should he be restricted to inner tube? Or will he be permitted to function in a normal capacity as pizza? What about dog collars? Are they allowed on the cement mixer? There are laws in place that are specifically designed to bikini underwear. The fact is that being said we owe it to the citizens to lazy Susan any time we piano.
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    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    I used to love mad-libs as a kid!
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    Quote Originally Posted by paetsHFD6 View Post
    I would be interested in exactly what you teach in a RIT class since your philosophy seems to be never committing personnel to an area you deem unsafe. In my experience any time firefighters require RIT intervention they are in an unsafe area.

    You're very quick to write off civilians as "already gone" which leads me to believe you wouldn't have much trouble classifying your fellow firefighters in the same way. What exactly do your RIT classes consist of?
    Class was designed as an entry level RIT class for a single story (no basement) residential structure. No basement operations or 2nd story operations.

    There have been a couple of classes in the same department which allowed me to build a little bit on the basic class, but in most cases where I taught multiple times in the same department or groups of departments, it tended to be a repeat of the basic class due to the number of new faces.

    A few of the classes have been held in fire stations or structures where we could not break windows, physical breech walls, etc.

    A few of them have been in structures where we could breech at will including interior and exterior doors and convert windows into doors.

    They were all 12-Hour Classes, which was generally a Friday night or Saturday.

    A couple of them were stretched out over 3 3-hour training nights.

    The basic game plan was as follows, but again, there was variance depending on what we could physically do to the structure.

    Unit 1 (2 Hrs)

    Classroom
    - RIT Operations Overview
    - RIT Tools
    - Department Specific RIT Communication Procedures

    Unit 2 (1 Hr)

    Assessment

    Unit 3 (2 Hrs)

    Air Operations
    - Mask Changeout
    - Bottle Changeout
    - SCBA Changeout

    Unit 4 (2 Hrs)

    Firefighter Drags & Carries

    - SCBA Conversion
    - DRAG Devices
    - Webbing and Ropes
    - Stokes


    Unit 5 (2 Hrs)

    Basic Wall Breeching Operations

    Unit 5 (3 Hours)

    - Scenarios & Operations
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 06-25-2013 at 04:59 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasper 45 View Post
    Scary thought.

    Tell us, then; what is your philosophy on trying to rescue trapped firefighters? Seeing as the majority of incidents that require rapid intervention are a result of something bad happening at a fire, such as a member thru a floor, catastrophic building failure, etc…what exactly are you going to do? Stand outside and claim it’s “not your problem”? “They went in, not my issue”?

    Seriously, the close calls that I am familiar with in recent years, here, have all involved some type of significant problem with the building trapping members. The removal of the members in distress happened under far less than ideal conditions for the rescuers, resulting in some injuries.

    What exactly are you going to do? You’ve clearly demonstrated and articulated on here that you are only concerned with yourself; why would any one listen to you?
    Operate aggressively.

    Different level of acceptable risk than civilians.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 06-25-2013 at 04:56 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    To perform a RIT operation, one has to enter the building under adverse and dangerous conditions.. something that you through your posts have shown that you would not do.
    ..... Negative.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Operate aggressively.

    Different level of acceptable risk than civilians.
    I'd have severe reservations operating on the fireground with you as the RIT officer. I really don't see you changing your "not my problem" attitude to suddenly balls to the wall aggressive to save trapped or lost firefighters.

    Several posters here are concerned with your department being honest with the citizens in informing them exactly what they're getting for fire protection. I'd be more concerned with your AMA companies knowing what they're getting into. They might want to be advised to bring their own RIT team with them as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by paetsHFD6 View Post
    I'd have severe reservations operating on the fireground with you as the RIT officer. I really don't see you changing your "not my problem" attitude to suddenly balls to the wall aggressive to save trapped or lost firefighters.

    Several posters here are concerned with your department being honest with the citizens in informing them exactly what they're getting for fire protection. I'd be more concerned with your AMA companies knowing what they're getting into. They might want to be advised to bring their own RIT team with them as well.
    AMA has no issues with us.

    In fact, we are the first or second department they call for mutual aid, depending on location and need.

    They fully understand our current situation. They realize that they would likely be in a similar situation on the volunteer side if they didn't pay their call personnel.

    The fact is downed members "is my problem". in addition downed members have the luxury of PPE and SCBA, as well as training, which makes them, even in a mayday situation, far more viable than civilians.
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    Darned those pesky civilians for failing to don SCBA and PPE.
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    Of course they call you quickly for MA. Someone has to change bottles and run rehab, after all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToDaRoof View Post
    Of course they call you quickly for MA. Someone has to change bottles and run rehab, after all.
    Actually tankers and LDH.

    They change their own SCBA cylinders.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Unit 1 (2 Hrs)

    Classroom
    - RIT Operations Overview
    - RIT Tools
    - Department Specific RIT Communication Procedures

    Unit 2 (1 Hr)

    Assessment

    Unit 3 (2 Hrs)

    Air Operations
    - Mask Changeout
    - Bottle Changeout
    - SCBA Changeout

    Unit 4 (2 Hrs)

    Firefighter Drags & Carries

    - SCBA Conversion
    - DRAG Devices
    - Webbing and Ropes
    - Stokes


    Unit 5 (2 Hrs)

    Basic Wall Breeching Operations

    Unit 5 (3 Hours)

    - Scenarios & Operations
    All part of FF1 in my area.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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