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Thread: Lt. Ray hits another home run!

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    LA's words will be in quotes.. something he does not know how to do or is to obtuse to use...

    Have I seen many a department fight tooth and nail for suppression needs but not put any efforts into pushing a sprinkler ordinance.
    Really? I think this more of the bullS#!t factoids you make up.

    The home construction lobbyists and the politicians fight tooth and nail against residential sprinklers, yet have no problem upselling commercial grade appliances and granite countertops. If it does come to a vote, the almighty dollar contribution beats our voices in the wilderness.

    By the way, what are YOU doing to promote sprinklers? Oh yeah, it's not your battle, it is the Chief's decision, the VFD's constituency can't afford it, etc. etc. blah blah blah.


    Yup, that's what we do .. Burn houses down. Which is why that of our last 4 building fires over the last 2 years, 50% of the buildings were repaired and reoccupied.



    Probably sucks when I bring up facts like that.
    So you are prond of the fact that you burned down 2 buildings? The owners of those 2 structures must think it sucks.

    Funny thing that often the one interior firefighter who is also on scene will be at the door with me, also with an SCBA, and often with a handline or the 2 1/2" line because I may decide this will be the best place to hit it with an exterior line. Or if my exterior guy is hitting it from the window, I'll tell my pump operator exactly where I will be, what I am doing and that he doesn't see me come out in 15 or 20 seconds to have somebody take a look in the door.

    it's really not that complicated.

    You see this just isn't to take a look for the hell of it. It's to decide the best place for that exterior line to go to work.
    Here is a "novel" concept... if you are going to go "inside", help your "interior firefighter" bring the damn line in and use the reach of the stream to hit the fire.

    There are more people than you think that understand that much of what we are doing is tied to the traditions of the fire service and not necessarily to any significant gain.
    The last time I checked.. saving lives and property is the tradition of the fire service; not to wait for the "ama engine" to go interior because you are afraid too. Get in there , put the (expetive) fire out, make up and go back to quarters.

    I disagree. A lot needs to be changed in the fire service.
    You can start by getting out of the fire service and allowing those willing to do the job to do it. Your pathetic blathering of "my VFD cannot commit to X hours of training a month because of A, B and C needs to be changed. To quote the late Professor Randy Pauch, you can choose to be a "tigger" or an "eeyore"... apparently you are an "eeyore". I cold go on and on, but I am damn tired and should be getting some shuteye.
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    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    No ones arguing against sprinklers. You're not going to change the topic again, so you can fail at making yourself look good, so knock that schitt off.

    That was apart of the discussion, though it does go back to culture.

    Have I seen many a department fight tooth and nail for suppression needs but not put any efforts into pushing a sprinkler ordinance.


    And I have seen miltiple communities where fire departments pushed and got sprinkler ordinaces passed only to have construction companies, businesses and politicians decimate them because they "aren't good for business." So shove your sanctimonious Bull Schitt.

    That you will refuse to put out, that you will refuse to use all of your "training" at.


    And where have I said that we will refuse to put them out?

    Oh that's right ... More twisting and contorting of my words.


    Actually, you HAVEN't put a single fire out that you have talked about other than your chief putting out the stove fire. Your AMA FD has gone in and put them out.

    But you'll "duck inside for 20-30 seconds" with no hose line so you can "see what's going on." Why exactly do you need to duck inside to see that you are in fact burning the house down?

    Yup, that's what we do .. Burn houses down. Which is why that of our last 4 building fires over the last 2 years, 50% of the buildings were repaired and reoccupied.

    Probably sucks when I bring up facts like that.


    Probably sucks even worse to know that without your AMA FD they all would be parking lots.

    I'm pretty sure that's evident from the exterior. Oh, and um, yeah, what are you gonna do if something happens while you're inside and you get injured or trapped and there's no one to come help you?


    Funny thing that often the one interior firefighter who is also on scene will be at the door with me, also with an SCBA, and often with a handline or the 2 1/2" line because I may decide this will be the best place to hit it with an exterior line. Or if my exterior guy is hitting it from the window, I'll tell my pump operator exactly where I will be, what I am doing and that he doesn't see me come out in 15 or 20 seconds to have somebody take a look in the door.

    Funny thing is if both of you actually went inside with a hose line you might actually put a fire out without depending on a paid career professional fire department's engine company having to save the house for you yet again.

    it's really not that complicated.

    You see this just isn't to take a look for the hell of it. It's to decide the best place for that exterior line to go to work.

    Ya, I just freelance.


    It really isn't that complicated, all of your ducking in to take a look is grandstanding when if you just masked up, took the other interior guy and went in you might actually accomplish something.

    That doesn't surprise me at all. In order for you to have a hero in the fire service, there would have to be more people with your pathetic mindset.


    There are more people than you think that understand that much of what we are doing is tied to the traditions of the fire service and not necessarily to any significant gain.


    YOU talking about tradition is absolutely ludicrous and frankly insulting. You know nothing of the fire service traditions. Further tradition has NOTHING to do with fire attack despite your wishing it to be so.

    but he does make some very good points regarding the culture of the fire service and some things that do need to change.

    Nothing needs to be changed to the point that the entire fire service as a whole gets beat down to your pathetic level so you can look important and tell everyone you were operating this way before it was the norm

    I disagree. A lot needs to be changed in the fire service.

    It certainly does, pathetic train wreck vfds like yours need to learn to tell the truth to their boards and citizens. Let them decide once they know the truth. You and your chief are perpetrating FRAUD. Call it what ever you want to but that is what it is. Man up and be honest. Until you do that you have no right to talk at all about change in the fire service.
    Man up LaFE, tell the truth to your board and citizens. YOU don't need your chief to be a man and do the right thing. Even though I know you won't do it...
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
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    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

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    Quote Originally Posted by paetsHFD6 View Post
    I would be interested in exactly what you teach in a RIT class since your philosophy seems to be never committing personnel to an area you deem unsafe. In my experience any time firefighters require RIT intervention they are in an unsafe area.

    You're very quick to write off civilians as "already gone" which leads me to believe you wouldn't have much trouble classifying your fellow firefighters in the same way. What exactly do your RIT classes consist of?
    BOOM BABY!! This is an awesome post!!
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

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    There are more people than you think that understand that much of what we are doing is tied to the traditions of the fire service and not necessarily to any significant gain.
    If you want a dose of reality, go check out any of the esteemed collegiate fire programs out there. I'd love to see you have a conversation with anyone from Eastern Kentucky University's program or University of Illinois IFSI. Because *GASP* these instructors are preaching safety WHILE doing our jobs...not safety INSTEAD of doing our jobs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ATFDFF View Post
    If you want a dose of reality, go check out any of the esteemed collegiate fire programs out there. I'd love to see you have a conversation with anyone from Eastern Kentucky University's program or University of Illinois IFSI. Because *GASP* these instructors are preaching safety WHILE doing our jobs...not safety INSTEAD of doing our jobs.
    To quote Chef Emeril LaGasse and Marvel Comic's Stan Lee....

    BAM! E'nuff said!!!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Quote Originally Posted by ATFDFF View Post
    If you want a dose of reality, go check out any of the esteemed collegiate fire programs out there. I'd love to see you have a conversation with anyone from Eastern Kentucky University's program or University of Illinois IFSI. Because *GASP* these instructors are preaching safety WHILE doing our jobs...not safety INSTEAD of doing our jobs.
    Maybe so, but in my environment with the experience level on my department I much prefer to teach them why they shouldn't be doing something than to give them the option to do it.

    Of manpower and experience increases, it may be a different situation down the road but right now my primary job is to make sure that they return home unhurt.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    For the 15,000th time... They will never gain any experience if you never provide them the opportunity to do so!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToDaRoof View Post
    For the 15,000th time... They will never gain any experience if you never provide them the opportunity to do so!
    And for the 15th time ........ It's not responsible nor safe to put them into situations where there is inadequate supervision due to a lack of officers or experienced members to watch over them. They will go home unhurt, every time.

    And again .... Over the last 2 years every opportunity to put them interior has been taken. We simply have had very few opportunities.

    But we shouldn't let the facts get in the way of a good discussion, eh?
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And for the 15th time ........ It's not responsible nor safe to put them into situations where there is inadequate supervision due to a lack of officers or experienced members to watch over them. They will go home unhurt, every time.
    What do you tell them to do.. stay home? That is the only way they can't get hurt...

    And again .... Over the last 2 years every opportunity to put them interior has been taken. We simply have had very few opportunities.

    But we shouldn't let the facts get in the way of a good discussion, eh?
    Blah blah blah blah blah blah.. the same tired excuses....
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    It certainly does, pathetic train wreck vfds like yours need to learn to tell the truth to their boards and citizens. Let them decide once they know the truth. You and your chief are perpetrating FRAUD. Call it what ever you want to but that is what it is. Man up and be honest. Until you do that you have no right to talk at all about change in the fire service.
    Reading LAFE's comments about traditions in the fire service is akin to listening to Kim Kardishian lecture about abstinence and modesty.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    If putting water through the window until your mutual aid arrives to go in and put your fire out is an "opportunity", have at it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Reading LAFE's comments about traditions in the fire service is akin to listening to Kim Kardishian lecture about abstinence and modesty.
    hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa.... wow ... you are just soooooooooooooooooooo funny.

    I believe in many of our ceremonial traditions, and miss many of them down here in the south that were common up north.

    That being said .... the tradition of saving lives at property at all costs is on that needs to go.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa.... wow ... you are just soooooooooooooooooooo funny.
    I'm here all week folks. Don't forget to tip your waitresses.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I believe in many of our ceremonial traditions, and miss many of them down here in the south that were common up north.
    I believe in the ceremonial traditions. I also believe in the firefighting traditions that include doing our jobs as firefighters. Not costume displayers.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    That being said .... the tradition of saving lives at property at all costs is on that needs to go.
    No one is saying that saving lives should be done at all costs. However, you've made it clear unless a criteria that doesn't exist in career departments is met, the attempt to save lives shouldn't happen at all.

    Big difference. You should consider a different career. Maybe you can get a phony baloney government job like Pubed. Never mind, you already have one. My bad.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I'm here all week folks. Don't forget to tip your waitresses.


    I believe in the ceremonial traditions. I also believe in the firefighting traditions that include doing our jobs as firefighters. Not costume displayers.

    And so do I when those firefighting functions are supported to the point that firefighter safety is provided for.


    No one is saying that saving lives should be done at all costs. However, you've made it clear unless a criteria that doesn't exist in career departments is met, the attempt to save lives shouldn't happen at all.

    And again, you are comparing career vs. volunteer departments where the response times, response packages, training, experience and command response are often two very different worlds.

    Big difference. You should consider a different career. Maybe you can get a phony baloney government job like Pubed. Never mind, you already have one. My bad.
    And likely I, or any other effective public educator, will save more lives over my career than you will.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And likely I, or any other effective public educator, will save more lives over my career than you will.
    Statistcs, Bobby. Just because you handed out fliers at a school event or talked to a bunch of little old ladies at the senior center does not give you the right to say you have "saved lives"...
    FyredUp and Chenzo like this.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And likely I, or any other effective public educator, will save more lives over my career than you will.
    Prove it. You made the claim, now prove it. Step or shut up.

    I want you to show the hard, in writing empirical data that supports your statement. You are the "statistics" guy, let's see your stats.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasper 45 View Post
    Prove it. You made the claim, now prove it. Step or shut up.

    I want you to show the hard, in writing empirical data that supports your statement. You are the "statistics" guy, let's see your stats.
    Can't prove fires that never happened because they listened to a prevention message.

    Can't prove runs that never happened because they put out the fire with an extinguisher or installed or maintained smoke detectors that alerted them to the fire before it was big enough to require the fire department.

    Yes, I can point to the cases where I was told by a homeowner that recently installed smoke detector detected the fire and they put it out. or I can point to the numerous times that I was told by a citizen that their child knew how to call 911 when there was a home emergency because she learned how to d it in school.

    But the vast majority time we never will know.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Can't prove fires that never happened because they listened to a prevention message.

    Can't prove runs that never happened because they put out the fire with an extinguisher or installed or maintained smoke detectors that alerted them to the fire before it was big enough to require the fire department.

    Yes, I can point to the cases where I was told by a homeowner that recently installed smoke detector detected the fire and they put it out. or I can point to the numerous times that I was told by a citizen that their child knew how to call 911 when there was a home emergency because she learned how to d it in school.

    But the vast majority time we never will know.

    Then your statement before was nothing but an opinion. Got it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Can't prove fires that never happened because they listened to a prevention message.

    Can't prove runs that never happened because they put out the fire with an extinguisher or installed or maintained smoke detectors that alerted them to the fire before it was big enough to require the fire department.
    Which is exactly why you throw this out there:

    Quote Originally Posted by LAFE
    And likely I, or any other effective public educator, will save more lives over my career than you will.
    Keep making claims you can't back up. I'm sure the brainwashed individuals that have ever been under your "command" believe you, but that schitt ain't gonna fly around here.
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasper 45 View Post
    Then your statement before was nothing but an opinion. Got it.
    Given that I can't prove something that never happened, or was not reported to the fire department because it never reached that stage as a result of either education or prevention, I guess we'll just have to leave it at that.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Can't prove fires that never happened because they listened to a prevention message.

    Can't prove runs that never happened because they put out the fire with an extinguisher or installed or maintained smoke detectors that alerted them to the fire before it was big enough to require the fire department.

    Yes, I can point to the cases where I was told by a homeowner that recently installed smoke detector detected the fire and they put it out. or I can point to the numerous times that I was told by a citizen that their child knew how to call 911 when there was a home emergency because she learned how to d it in school.

    But the vast majority time we never will know.
    Last week , I talked my wife into staying home and giving me a BJ, instead of going shoe shopping. And guess what , I saved her life, because I am sure she would have had a wreck. Dang -now she owes me another.
    ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Given that I can't prove something that never happened, or was not reported to the fire department because it never reached that stage as a result of either education or prevention, I guess we'll just have to leave it at that.

    Translation; I farted, now my mind is clear.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And so do I when those firefighting functions are supported to the point that firefighter safety is provided for.

    Your previous statements don't support this claim.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And again, you are comparing career vs. volunteer departments where the response times, response packages, training, experience and command response are often two very different worlds.

    Actually I'm comparing real FDs and real FFs who know how to do their jobs and contrasting them with fake ones like yourself and your VFD.


    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And likely I, or any other effective public educator, will save more lives over my career than you will.
    I doubt that. Though I appreciated your attempt to justify a phoney baloney government job that could go away by dinner time and no one would notice except you.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    Last week , I talked my wife into staying home and giving me a BJ, instead of going shoe shopping. And guess what , I saved her life, because I am sure she would have had a wreck. Dang -now she owes me another.
    How in the hell did you do that? Was it your birthday or anniversary?
    The fire service is about service to our fellow man.
    There is a trust that must not be broken and we are the keepers of that trust.
    Captain Dave LeBlanc

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    Posted by Bobby
    Can't prove runs that never happened because they put out the fire with an extinguisher or installed or maintained smoke detectors that alerted them to the fire before it was big enough to require the fire department.

    Yes, I can point to the cases where I was told by a homeowner that recently installed smoke detector detected the fire and they put it out.
    Thank God they put it out.. if they waited for you to duck inside take a look and wait for the mutual aid engine they would be owning nothing but a foundation and the clothes on their backs.
    FyredUp and Chenzo like this.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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