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Thread: Lt. Ray hits another home run!

  1. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Can't prove fires that never happened because they listened to a prevention message.

    Can't prove runs that never happened because they put out the fire with an extinguisher or installed or maintained smoke detectors that alerted them to the fire before it was big enough to require the fire department.

    Yes, I can point to the cases where I was told by a homeowner that recently installed smoke detector detected the fire and they put it out. or I can point to the numerous times that I was told by a citizen that their child knew how to call 911 when there was a home emergency because she learned how to d it in school.

    But the vast majority time we never will know.
    Last week , I talked my wife into staying home and giving me a BJ, instead of going shoe shopping. And guess what , I saved her life, because I am sure she would have had a wreck. Dang -now she owes me another.
    ?


  2. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Given that I can't prove something that never happened, or was not reported to the fire department because it never reached that stage as a result of either education or prevention, I guess we'll just have to leave it at that.

    Translation; I farted, now my mind is clear.
    snowball likes this.

  3. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And so do I when those firefighting functions are supported to the point that firefighter safety is provided for.

    Your previous statements don't support this claim.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And again, you are comparing career vs. volunteer departments where the response times, response packages, training, experience and command response are often two very different worlds.

    Actually I'm comparing real FDs and real FFs who know how to do their jobs and contrasting them with fake ones like yourself and your VFD.


    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And likely I, or any other effective public educator, will save more lives over my career than you will.
    I doubt that. Though I appreciated your attempt to justify a phoney baloney government job that could go away by dinner time and no one would notice except you.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  4. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    Last week , I talked my wife into staying home and giving me a BJ, instead of going shoe shopping. And guess what , I saved her life, because I am sure she would have had a wreck. Dang -now she owes me another.
    How in the hell did you do that? Was it your birthday or anniversary?
    The fire service is about service to our fellow man.
    There is a trust that must not be broken and we are the keepers of that trust.
    Captain Dave LeBlanc

  5. #325
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    Posted by Bobby
    Can't prove runs that never happened because they put out the fire with an extinguisher or installed or maintained smoke detectors that alerted them to the fire before it was big enough to require the fire department.

    Yes, I can point to the cases where I was told by a homeowner that recently installed smoke detector detected the fire and they put it out.
    Thank God they put it out.. if they waited for you to duck inside take a look and wait for the mutual aid engine they would be owning nothing but a foundation and the clothes on their backs.
    FyredUp and Chenzo like this.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  6. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by captnjak View Post
    I'm confused. Was your whole post sarcasm or just the part about the IC?
    Actually, none of it was sarcasm.

    What about it caused you to think that way?

  7. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    Actually, none of it was sarcasm.

    What about it caused you to think that way?
    What made me think it was sarcasm? When you replied by writing: "Sarcasm??????"

    The issue I have with your post is that you suggested a driver/operator who is untrained in firegound ops could not vent or search but could "potentially fill the role of the IC".

    I responded that you took your point too far. IC is not just about putting the right vest on a guy.

  8. #328
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by captnjak View Post
    I responded that you took your point too far. IC is not just about putting the right vest on a guy.
    You are right, it is not about vests, or a warm body, filling a position on the ICS board. It is about being savy enough to know early on whether your personal intervention in the emergency is more valuable than standing out front with a radio filling that slot. Frankly, anyone that can't see that the officer of the first arriving fire rig, at some scenes, is far more valuable assisting with hose advance or rescuing victims than standing on the front lawn has no business being in command of anything, let alone a fire scene. It has become boring and mindless listening to LA rant and rave about how unsafe working command is when infact it is used successfully every day all across the country
    Chenzo and FF-Andy like this.
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  9. #329
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    It has become boring and mindless listening to LA rant and rave about how unsafe working command is when infact it is used successfully every day all across the country
    I know I'm not alone. My crews put out many a fire with me assuming the IC in fast attack mode and assisting the FF's stretching hoselines into structures.

    I just shake my head at LAFE's remarks.
    FyredUp, Chenzo and FF-Andy like this.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  10. #330
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    When I was a Captain (and covering the officer on the engine because he got called into a hazmat incident as a member of the District 3 hazmat team), I did it at a fire that went to 2 alarms... my second due Engine was a good 6 minutes out returning from a call, my third due Engine was tied up at a medical. I started with 1 engine, a Ladder and the Rescue, with I, the nozzleman and the 2 firefighters from the rescue starting initial fire attack pulling two 1.75" lines off the engine; the Truck company opened the roof and I had the Lieutenant on the second due engine take command upon the companies arrival.

    It is not rocket science, nuclear physics or brain surgery, there are thousands of incidents handled this way every single day in rural, suburban, urban settings in career, call and volunteer departments.

    LA's rants remind me of the verbally abusive parent who keeps telling the children that they will not amount to anything, because he won't let them get experience and gain knowledge about the job.
    Last edited by DeputyChiefGonzo; 06-27-2013 at 05:12 PM. Reason: Spelling corrections.. I was typing like Bossier Bob for a moment!
    FyredUp, Chenzo, rm1524 and 1 others like this.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  11. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    You are right, it is not about vests, or a warm body, filling a position on the ICS board. It is about being savy enough to know early on whether your personal intervention in the emergency is more valuable than standing out front with a radio filling that slot. Frankly, anyone that can't see that the officer of the first arriving fire rig, at some scenes, is far more valuable assisting with hose advance or rescuing victims than standing on the front lawn has no business being in command of anything, let alone a fire scene. It has become boring and mindless listening to LA rant and rave about how unsafe working command is when infact it is used successfully every day all across the country
    I said it was unsafe in my current situation, and I fully standby that statement.

    It was perfectly safe in my previous VFD given the manpower levels, the response of multiple AMA departments and the framework that has been established for the assumption of command through the adoption of common practices and common mutual aid training.

    Don't continue to put words in my mouth.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  12. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    When I was a Captain (and covering the officer on the engine because he got called into a hazmat incident as a member of the District 3 hazmat team), I did it at a fire that went to 2 alarms... my second due Engine was a good 6 minutes out returning from a call, my third due Engine was tied up at a medical. I started with 1 engine, a Ladder and the Rescue, with I, the nozzleman and the 2 firefighters from the rescue starting initial fire attack pulling two 1.75" lines off the engine; the Truck company opened the roof and I had the Lieutenant on the second due engine take command upon the companies arrival.

    It is not rocket science, nuclear physics or brain surgery, there are thousands of incidents handled this way every single day in rural, suburban, urban settings in career, call and volunteer departments.

    LA's rants remind me of the verbally abusive parent who keeps telling the children that they will not amount to anything, because he won't let them get experience and gain knowledge about the job.
    Again, experienced paid staff. Experienced paid driver /operator.

    Very different situation from my current VFD.

    I'm perfectly willing to let this go as long as some of the members here admit that working command is not applicable in all situations, just like I have stated over and over that in some situations, it is quite applicable.

    And again, I have one job as an officer and that is to make sure my folks go home unhurt, and yes, that comes above the needs of the citizen's needs. Sorry, but that is how I feel.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 06-28-2013 at 11:01 AM.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  13. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I know I'm not alone. My crews put out many a fire with me assuming the IC in fast attack mode and assisting the FF's stretching hoselines into structures.

    I just shake my head at LAFE's remarks.
    And again, experienced, paid staffs with far greater training levels.

    It's really that simple.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  14. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I said it was unsafe in my current situation, and I fully standby that statement.

    Yet it was safe for you to "Duck in" and take a peak at the fire's progress with no hose line, or no 2 in 2 out? Seriously Bobby don't you make yourself dizzy with all the twists and turns and loop de loos you make when trying to defend your nonsense? You said you had 1 interior guy with you, why didn't you both just go in and ut the fire out? Oh yeah that would have meant actually doing real firefighting instead of trying to look impressive ducking in for a second and accomplishing nothing.

    It was perfectly safe in my previous VFD given the manpower levels, the response of multiple AMA departments and the framework that has been established for the assumption of command through the adoption of common practices and common mutual aid training.

    Dude by the time you get there, get setup, do your 360, and whatever other crap you do to avoid going inside your AMA department is on scene. My point? If you had 2 guys ready to go at that point as soon as your AMA arrived your guys could be entering. Or they could have entered knowing the AMA was close. Keep making excuses, keep handing your fires to the AMA, keep lying to the board and community. At least you found something your VFD is good at.

    Don't continue to put words in my mouth.

    There isn't room for me to put words in your mouth, your foot is in the way.
    Just more of the same excuses and false indignation...
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
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  15. #335
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Again, experienced paid staff. Experienced paid driver /operator.

    Yet Chenzo did it with an all volunteer crew...WOW! Now what Bobby?

    Very different situation from my current VFD.

    It sure is, you don't want to go interior so you don't and you stop the guys that would.

    I'm perfectly willing to let this go as long as some of the members here admit that working command is not applicable in all situations, just like I have stated over and over that in some situations, it is quite applicable.

    Of course it isn't applicble in all situations, just like spraying water in the window isn't applicable in all situations. You want us to say what you want said but won't admit that going inside, like your AMA FD does for you, is right in most situations.

    And again, I have one job as an officer and that is to make sure my folks go home unhurt, and yes, that comes above the needs of the citizen's needs. Sorry, but that is how I feel.

    Blah, blah, blah...Golly Bobby, show me one place where anyone else said their mission wasn't to do the job and go home safe. You preach this same schitt over and over like you invented fire ground safety when all it is is a dodge to avoid doing the job.
    You are so boring Bobby, you repeat the same nonsense until you get cornered then you divert.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  16. #336
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    Yet it was safe for you to "Duck in" and take a peak at the fire's progress with no hose line, or no 2 in 2 out? Seriously Bobby don't you make yourself dizzy with all the twists and turns and loop de loos you make when trying to defend your nonsense? You said you had 1 interior guy with you, why didn't you both just go in and ut the fire out? Oh yeah that would have meant actually doing real firefighting instead of trying to look impressive ducking in for a second and accomplishing nothing.

    Big difference between masking up, going in 3-5' for 10-15 seconds to take a peek at the interior fire conditions from just inside the door and going interior with a hoseline in terms of being detached from what is happening exterior.

    Again, my VFD Chief prefers exterior command. Under some situations interior/working command is warranted but for property, those situations under the current conditions in my VFD are VERY, VERY rare.

    I have no idea why you are so fixated with going interior under working command.



    Dude by the time you get there, get setup, do your 360, and whatever other crap you do to avoid going inside your AMA department is on scene. My point? If you had 2 guys ready to go at that point as soon as your AMA arrived your guys could be entering. Or they could have entered knowing the AMA was close. Keep making excuses, keep handing your fires to the AMA, keep lying to the board and community. At least you found something your VFD is good at.

    Depends on where in the district.

    In all likelihood, given my response time from my home on the border of the neighboring fire district, the AMA engine will either be on-scene or very close to being on-scene when I arrive.

    In the core area of the district, they also will arrive fairly close behind the first in units from my VFD. so in that situation, the initial attack will be performed by a team composed of my VFD and their personnel.

    If we are on-scene with 2 members, exclusive e of myself, there is a good chance, depending on the fire conditions, that they will make entry if the AMA engine is close enough that they could perform as RIT/backup line within a minute or two.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    So, in essence, you stand in the flow path to determine something that is easily figured out by reading smoke? To determine something you probably won't be able to witness because of said smoke? Please elaborate, I'm intrigued...

    I'm willing to bet it's more of a "Look at how smoked up my helmet is, I know what I'm talking about!" situation while having a brew and "teaching" at the ol' vollie house, huh?
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  18. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToDaRoof View Post
    So, in essence, you stand in the flow path to determine something that is easily figured out by reading smoke? To determine something you probably won't be able to witness because of said smoke? Please elaborate, I'm intrigued...

    I'm willing to bet it's more of a "Look at how smoked up my helmet is, I know what I'm talking about!" situation while having a brew and "teaching" at the ol' vollie house, huh?
    I look at the exterior conditions during my size-up, then yes, I may open the door, take a look at the interior conditions for 10-15 seconds, leave the house and close the door.

    Do I do it often? No, simply because I am not the first officer on the scene very often.

    I'll also look around the door for any victims.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  19. #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I look at the exterior conditions during my size-up, then yes, I may open the door, take a look at the interior conditions for 10-15 seconds, leave the house and close the door.

    Do I do it often? No, simply because I am not the first officer on the scene very often.

    I'll also look around the door for any victims.
    La, either you didn't read his post at all, or you don't understand what a flow path is.

    But I have to give you credit for mentioning that you take the trouble to look for victims (that you know won't happen in your district) in the inches that you might be able to see when you crack a door on a smoke charged house. That takes some salt to do that for a stranger.

    Please read it again and answer accordingly.
    To DaRoof asked,
    So, in essence, you stand in the flow path to determine something that is easily figured out by reading smoke? To determine something you probably won't be able to witness because of said smoke? Please elaborate, I'm intrigued...
    Last edited by snowball; 06-28-2013 at 05:27 PM.
    IAFF

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Yet it was safe for you to "Duck in" and take a peak at the fire's progress with no hose line, or no 2 in 2 out? Seriously Bobby don't you make yourself dizzy with all the twists and turns and loop de loos you make when trying to defend your nonsense? You said you had 1 interior guy with you, why didn't you both just go in and ut the fire out? Oh yeah that would have meant actually doing real firefighting instead of trying to look impressive ducking in for a second and accomplishing nothing.

    Big difference between masking up, going in 3-5' for 10-15 seconds to take a peek at the interior fire conditions from just inside the door and going interior with a hoseline in terms of being detached from what is happening exterior.

    Again, my VFD Chief prefers exterior command. Under some situations interior/working command is warranted but for property, those situations under the current conditions in my VFD are VERY, VERY rare.

    I have no idea why you are so fixated with going interior under working command.



    Dude by the time you get there, get setup, do your 360, and whatever other crap you do to avoid going inside your AMA department is on scene. My point? If you had 2 guys ready to go at that point as soon as your AMA arrived your guys could be entering. Or they could have entered knowing the AMA was close. Keep making excuses, keep handing your fires to the AMA, keep lying to the board and community. At least you found something your VFD is good at.

    Depends on where in the district.

    In all likelihood, given my response time from my home on the border of the neighboring fire district, the AMA engine will either be on-scene or very close to being on-scene when I arrive.

    In the core area of the district, they also will arrive fairly close behind the first in units from my VFD. so in that situation, the initial attack will be performed by a team composed of my VFD and their personnel.

    If we are on-scene with 2 members, exclusive e of myself, there is a good chance, depending on the fire conditions, that they will make entry if the AMA engine is close enough that they could perform as RIT/backup line within a minute or two.
    In other words, basically, if you're not there to stop them from making entry and doing their job and putting the fire out, they'll make entry and put the fire out...ya know, what fire departments are supposed to do.
    DeputyChiefGonzo and Chenzo like this.

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