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Thread: Lt. Ray hits another home run!

  1. #341
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Yet it was safe for you to "Duck in" and take a peak at the fire's progress with no hose line, or no 2 in 2 out? Seriously Bobby don't you make yourself dizzy with all the twists and turns and loop de loos you make when trying to defend your nonsense? You said you had 1 interior guy with you, why didn't you both just go in and ut the fire out? Oh yeah that would have meant actually doing real firefighting instead of trying to look impressive ducking in for a second and accomplishing nothing.

    Big difference between masking up, going in 3-5' for 10-15 seconds to take a peek at the interior fire conditions from just inside the door and going interior with a hoseline in terms of being detached from what is happening exterior.

    Yeah, because ceilings only collapse in the middle of the room...right? And being inside by yourself is safe? Uh huh...HYPOCRITE!

    Again, my VFD Chief prefers exterior command. Under some situations interior/working command is warranted but for property, those situations under the current conditions in my VFD are VERY, VERY rare.

    And remind me again how you know no one is inside?

    I have no idea why you are so fixated with going interior under working command.

    Primarily because my job is to save lives, AND property, when interior conditions allow entry. Not stand outside, spray water in, and pray someone else with bigger stones will go inside and do my job for me.



    Dude by the time you get there, get setup, do your 360, and whatever other crap you do to avoid going inside your AMA department is on scene. My point? If you had 2 guys ready to go at that point as soon as your AMA arrived your guys could be entering. Or they could have entered knowing the AMA was close. Keep making excuses, keep handing your fires to the AMA, keep lying to the board and community. At least you found something your VFD is good at.

    Depends on where in the district.

    So you admit there are times that a working command with another interior firefighter could affect a positive outcome and perhaps save more of the structure.

    In all likelihood, given my response time from my home on the border of the neighboring fire district, the AMA engine will either be on-scene or very close to being on-scene when I arrive.

    Well thank God for that, otherwise you might try to make them stay outside too!

    In the core area of the district, they also will arrive fairly close behind the first in units from my VFD. so in that situation, the initial attack will be performed by a team composed of my VFD and their personnel.

    Sure it will. Why do your guys need to wait for themto arrive to initiate fire attack?

    If we are on-scene with 2 members, exclusive e of myself, there is a good chance, depending on the fire conditions, that they will make entry if the AMA engine is close enough that they could perform as RIT/backup line within a minute or two.

    Wow! You just change your entire story once again. Not that long ago you said you would NEVER enter, unless there was a life to save, without a back up line and RIT in place. Gosh it looks like you got caught fibbing once again.
    Bobby, you must be dizzy all the time with all the spinning of stories you do.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
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  2. #342
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And again, experienced, paid staffs with far greater training levels.

    It's really that simple.
    It's even simpler than that. I worked with firefighters. Not pathetic wannabes like yourself.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  3. #343
    Forum Member IronValor's Avatar
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    I feel like I'm getting a head bleed here.
    1. Because you are on a Rural FD Does not mean that you cannot train. I am on two Rural VFDs that train every week without fail. The Commonwealth of KY has a Fire Commission that has a training division with all kinds of props and simulators and trailers that have all kinds of training aids that are available to any department on request. Every Firefighter is given a unique ID Number and all of his or her fire training hours go into a statewide data base. This way there is accountability and everybody knows what the other is trained in.

    2. I am sick and tired of hearing about Rural VFDs and what you think we can and cannot do in your opinion. You are giving us an undeserved black eye Bobby. Just because your little part of the world will not do what the rest of us will does not give you a license to be a cancer on the Fire service. Tow the line or get the hell out of the way for somebody that will.

    3. It only takes one to blaze a trail. If you are not getting the funding that you need or if you are not getting the training you think you deserve be the squeaky wheel and get some grease. Frankly speaking nothing is going to change unless you want it to change. Complacency is a killer of Firemen please believe it. The fact that you spend time on here telling us all how we are stupid for making interior attacks and searching vacant buildings etc. are all opps for you to be on sites like Vententersearch.com or Fireengineering or hell even here to get training Ideas for your guys. It sounds to me like You do not want to do anything and therefore you do not want Your guys doing anything either.

    4. As always you are certainly entitled to your opinion such as I am entitled to mine. I think the LT. makes very valid points and I think that even though some of those points may not apply to Rural Firefighting I have enough common sense to take what I can use and store the rest just in case.
    And that phrase right there " Just in case " That is plenty of reason to train for the fires that you fight as well as the fires that you do not commonly fight. Yes we do ARFF Training even though the nearest Airport is 40 Miles away " Just in case" it all shakes loose and we are asked to help. Yes we do High rise training even though the nearest high rise building is out of our district " Just in case" we are called upon to assist. Eleven years in the Fire service has taught me one thing if nothing else, This business is dynamic it is always changing and no two fires are the same. No two EMS calls are the same. No two extrications are the same. While I agree to train for the fires you fight I would add that you need to train for the fires that you do not.

    And if LA does not have the props and simulators and what not you can always go to Home Depot or Lowes or any hardware or lumber yard for that matter and get the stuff to build your own and most places will even donate it.
    FireMedic049, Chenzo and conrad427 like this.
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  4. #344
    Forum Member johnny46's Avatar
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    Seems like someone can't accept that hindsight is 20/20. Good article.
    Logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead.

  5. #345
    Forum Member ToDaRoof's Avatar
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    I'm about 95% certain Ray is monitoring this thread... Chime on in Lt!

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    DeputyChiefGonzo and Chenzo like this.
    Either strive to excel at this job or quit. There is no middle ground.

    #wedontstop #expectfire

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  6. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToDaRoof View Post
    I'm about 95% certain Ray is monitoring this thread... Chime on in Lt!

    Attachment 22950
    Don't drag him in to it. Sometimes after reading lala s posts, I feel like scrubbing myself with steel wool.
    ?

  7. #347
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    I was in Tennessee for the past few days, my wife and I went down there on a dual mission. One part was to pick up some 1 1/2 inch hose an FD was giving away (For my Mack CF), and the other was to do some reconnaissance since we are contemplating relocating down there in a few years.

    So I contact the Chief, a very young, enthusiastic man who was instantly easy to like and after he told me I could have some of the hose off we go. We pull into the station, a 3 bay wood frame pole barn, with no bathroom, no meeting room, but 3 pretty nice rigs. An engine they got with a grant, a newer tender, and a government surplus 4 door pick up with a utility body. We start taking, and he tells me their entire tax supported budget is $1500 and insurance coverage. They are pure volunteers with no compensation at all. Every other dime they operate on they raise through various fund raisers. In fact the day we stopped in they were selling fireworks and prepping for a garage sale as people drove in donating items for the sale. They took me over to their other station where they had an older pumper and a cascade truck they purchased both for $15K used. Both rigs were again nice rigs in good shape. This station was in an old brick school house where they tore a classroom out of one end, put a garage door in and a gravel floor.

    We continued to talk for a while and the chief described his fire department as a rural FD with trouble sometmes getting people to respond, pretty common in a lot of places, they run a lot of mutul aid since they are centrally located in the county. He proudly went on to tell me that they are aggressive firefighters that like to go inside when they can and put the fire out. They train to the state minimum level and then some go on to get FF1 and 2. They train inhouse and are always striving to get better.

    How can that be? Out in the sticks, minimal, to say the least tax payer funding, yet they work hard to fund the department, they train hard, and they do their very best to save lives and property. Kind of puts the whole $160K budget in perpsepctive don't you think Bobby?

    By the way, I would be proud to be on this fire department because to me, attitude is everything, and these guys have the desire and pride to keep moving forward.
    Last edited by FyredUp; 06-29-2013 at 11:49 AM.
    Chenzo and fotowun like this.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  8. #348
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    Re: LaFireEducator;

    I'm a District Chief, 32 years on the job, in a city of over 300k.
    I cannot believe the crap that spews from his mouth. I have no doubt he wears every little bit of "firefighter" clothing available when he's out and about in daily life. Ball cap, shirt, fanny pack, etc. He's a total pretender.

    I'm all for safety, I'm all for being current in what's happening in fire science. The work of NIST and UL is outstanding. As an IC it allows me to better understand what is happening on the fireground. It gives me the "why" of how things need to be done.
    I don't hear them saying: don't go into fires, don't do a search, don't put yourself at risk. Their goal is to allow us to make smarter and better informed decisions on the fireground.

    LaFire truly does need to find another profession because he's awful at what he does.

  9. #349
    Forum Member snowball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny46 View Post
    Seems like someone can't accept that hindsight is 20/20. Good article.
    Hi Johnny!!!
    IAFF

  10. #350
    Forum Member snowball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whammer79 View Post
    Re: LaFireEducator;

    I'm a District Chief, 32 years on the job, in a city of over 300k.
    I cannot believe the crap that spews from his mouth. I have no doubt he wears every little bit of "firefighter" clothing available when he's out and about in daily life. Ball cap, shirt, fanny pack, etc. He's a total pretender.

    I'm all for safety, I'm all for being current in what's happening in fire science. The work of NIST and UL is outstanding. As an IC it allows me to better understand what is happening on the fireground. It gives me the "why" of how things need to be done.
    I don't hear them saying: don't go into fires, don't do a search, don't put yourself at risk. Their goal is to allow us to make smarter and better informed decisions on the fireground.

    LaFire truly does need to find another profession because he's awful at what he does.
    Well said sir. Welcome to the forums
    IAFF

  11. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    I was in Tennessee for the past few days, my wife and I went down there on a dual mission. One part was to pick up some 1 1/2 inch hose an FD was giving away (For my Mack CF), and the other was to do some reconnaissance since we are contemplating relocating down there in a few years.

    So I contact the Chief, a very young, enthusiastic man who was instantly easy to like and after he told me I could have some of the hose off we go. We pull into the station, a 3 bay wood frame pole barn, with no bathroom, no meeting room, but 3 pretty nice rigs. An engine they got with a grant, a newer tender, and a government surplus 4 door pick up with a utility body. We start taking, and he tells me their entire tax supported budget is $1500 and insurance coverage. They are pure volunteers with no compensation at all. Every other dime they operate on they raise through various fund raisers. In fact the day we stopped in they were selling fireworks and prepping for a garage sale as people drove in donating items for the sale. They took me over to their other station where they had an older pumper and a cascade truck they purchased both for $15K used. Both rigs were again nice rigs in good shape. This station was in an old brick school house where they tore a classroom out of one end, put a garage door in and a gravel floor.

    We continued to talk for a while and the chief described his fire department as a rural FD with trouble sometmes getting people to respond, pretty common in a lot of places, they run a lot of mutul aid since they are centrally located in the county. He proudly went on to tell me that they are aggressive firefighters that like to go inside when they can and put the fire out. They train to the state minimum level and then some go on to get FF1 and 2. They train inhouse and are always striving to get better.

    How can that be? Out in the sticks, minimal, to say the least tax payer funding, yet they work hard to fund the department, they train hard, and they do their very best to save lives and property. Kind of puts the whole $160K budget in perpsepctive don't you think Bobby?

    By the way, I would be proud to be on this fire department because to me, attitude is everything, and these guys have the desire and pride to keep moving forward.
    In other words real firefighters who use the equipment and personnel they have to dotthe best job possible, while striving to improve their ability to do said job at all times. Just to make it clear to...certain people. OH... ...note the italisized and colorized text. They're tankers on this end of the country
    Chenzo likes this.

  12. #352
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowball View Post
    Hi Johnny!!!
    Wow...where have you been hiding?
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  13. #353
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whammer79 View Post
    Re: LaFireEducator;

    I'm a District Chief, 32 years on the job, in a city of over 300k.
    I cannot believe the crap that spews from his mouth. I have no doubt he wears every little bit of "firefighter" clothing available when he's out and about in daily life. Ball cap, shirt, fanny pack, etc. He's a total pretender.

    I'm all for safety, I'm all for being current in what's happening in fire science. The work of NIST and UL is outstanding. As an IC it allows me to better understand what is happening on the fireground. It gives me the "why" of how things need to be done.
    I don't hear them saying: don't go into fires, don't do a search, don't put yourself at risk. Their goal is to allow us to make smarter and better informed decisions on the fireground.

    LaFire truly does need to find another profession because he's awful at what he does.
    Welcome to the forums, Chief. I can see by your assessment of LA that you are quite perceptive.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  14. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronValor View Post
    I feel like I'm getting a head bleed here.
    1. Because you are on a Rural FD Does not mean that you cannot train. I am on two Rural VFDs that train every week without fail. The Commonwealth of KY has a Fire Commission that has a training division with all kinds of props and simulators and trailers that have all kinds of training aids that are available to any department on request. Every Firefighter is given a unique ID Number and all of his or her fire training hours go into a statewide data base. This way there is accountability and everybody knows what the other is trained in.

    Never said that rural VFDs can't train. I have said that in many places rural VFDs may have limited access to training resources.

    2. I am sick and tired of hearing about Rural VFDs and what you think we can and cannot do in your opinion. You are giving us an undeserved black eye Bobby. Just because your little part of the world will not do what the rest of us will does not give you a license to be a cancer on the Fire service. Tow the line or get the hell out of the way for somebody that will.

    Tow the line? Sorry but every department has a different line.


    3. It only takes one to blaze a trail. If you are not getting the funding that you need or if you are not getting the training you think you deserve be the squeaky wheel and get some grease. Frankly speaking nothing is going to change unless you want it to change. Complacency is a killer of Firemen please believe it. The fact that you spend time on here telling us all how we are stupid for making interior attacks and searching vacant buildings etc. are all opps for you to be on sites like Vententersearch.com or Fireengineering or hell even here to get training Ideas for your guys. It sounds to me like You do not want to do anything and therefore you do not want Your guys doing anything either.

    If you justify your members dying or being hurt in vacant buildings have at it.


    4. As always you are certainly entitled to your opinion such as I am entitled to mine. I think the LT. makes very valid points and I think that even though some of those points may not apply to Rural Firefighting I have enough common sense to take what I can use and store the rest just in case.
    And that phrase right there " Just in case " That is plenty of reason to train for the fires that you fight as well as the fires that you do not commonly fight. Yes we do ARFF Training even though the nearest Airport is 40 Miles away " Just in case" it all shakes loose and we are asked to help. Yes we do High rise training even though the nearest high rise building is out of our district " Just in case" we are called upon to assist. Eleven years in the Fire service has taught me one thing if nothing else, This business is dynamic it is always changing and no two fires are the same. No two EMS calls are the same. No two extrications are the same. While I agree to train for the fires you fight I would add that you need to train for the fires that you do not.

    Don't have time to train the fires that we will likely never see.


    And if LA does not have the props and simulators and what not you can always go to Home Depot or Lowes or any hardware or lumber yard for that matter and get the stuff to build your own and most places will even donate it.

    Maybe, but it still comes down to time.

    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  15. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whammer79 View Post
    Re: LaFireEducator;

    I'm a District Chief, 32 years on the job, in a city of over 300k.
    I cannot believe the crap that spews from his mouth. I have no doubt he wears every little bit of "firefighter" clothing available when he's out and about in daily life. Ball cap, shirt, fanny pack, etc. He's a total pretender.

    I'm all for safety, I'm all for being current in what's happening in fire science. The work of NIST and UL is outstanding. As an IC it allows me to better understand what is happening on the fireground. It gives me the "why" of how things need to be done.
    I don't hear them saying: don't go into fires, don't do a search, don't put yourself at risk. Their goal is to allow us to make smarter and better informed decisions on the fireground.

    LaFire truly does need to find another profession because he's awful at what he does.
    While I respect your position, your opinion has zero relevance in my worlds of 17,000 and 3,000.

    My job is to keep my volunteers unhurt. That is the only thing that matters to me.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  16. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    I was in Tennessee for the past few days, my wife and I went down there on a dual mission. One part was to pick up some 1 1/2 inch hose an FD was giving away (For my Mack CF), and the other was to do some reconnaissance since we are contemplating relocating down there in a few years.

    So I contact the Chief, a very young, enthusiastic man who was instantly easy to like and after he told me I could have some of the hose off we go. We pull into the station, a 3 bay wood frame pole barn, with no bathroom, no meeting room, but 3 pretty nice rigs. An engine they got with a grant, a newer tender, and a government surplus 4 door pick up with a utility body. We start taking, and he tells me their entire tax supported budget is $1500 and insurance coverage. They are pure volunteers with no compensation at all. Every other dime they operate on they raise through various fund raisers. In fact the day we stopped in they were selling fireworks and prepping for a garage sale as people drove in donating items for the sale. They took me over to their other station where they had an older pumper and a cascade truck they purchased both for $15K used. Both rigs were again nice rigs in good shape. This station was in an old brick school house where they tore a classroom out of one end, put a garage door in and a gravel floor.

    We continued to talk for a while and the chief described his fire department as a rural FD with trouble sometmes getting people to respond, pretty common in a lot of places, they run a lot of mutul aid since they are centrally located in the county. He proudly went on to tell me that they are aggressive firefighters that like to go inside when they can and put the fire out. They train to the state minimum level and then some go on to get FF1 and 2. They train inhouse and are always striving to get better.

    How can that be? Out in the sticks, minimal, to say the least tax payer funding, yet they work hard to fund the department, they train hard, and they do their very best to save lives and property. Kind of puts the whole $160K budget in perpsepctive don't you think Bobby?

    By the way, I would be proud to be on this fire department because to me, attitude is everything, and these guys have the desire and pride to keep moving forward.
    Nice story.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  17. #357
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Nice story.
    The problem is Bobby is it is 100% true. The fact is with far less than you, in money and equipment, they do the job. They DO go interior, they do put fires out, they do make rescues, they DO THE JOB!
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  18. #358
    Forum Member Chenzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Nice story.
    Hm. Kind of hard to justify your pathetic beliefs and tactics when a department with a whole lot less is able to do a whole lot more.....
    conrad427 likes this.
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

  19. #359
    Forum Member ToDaRoof's Avatar
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    Don't have time to train, huh? Last I checked, we all have the same amount of time per day, and even Kentland, one of the busiest vollie houses in the country, gets a few HOURS of training in per day. You're making excuses again... Why do you believe that mediocrity is acceptable?
    Last edited by ToDaRoof; 06-29-2013 at 10:20 PM.
    Chenzo likes this.
    Either strive to excel at this job or quit. There is no middle ground.

    #wedontstop #expectfire

    FTM-PTB-RFB-EGH-KTF

  20. #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    While I respect your position, your opinion has zero relevance in my worlds of 17,000 and 3,000.

    My job is to keep my volunteers unhurt. That is the only thing that matters to me.
    So the citizens you're supposed to be protecting mean nothing to you...that pretty much says it all.
    Chenzo and ToDaRoof like this.

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