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Thread: Lt. Ray hits another home run!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ToDaRoof View Post
    Lala, if you don't give a damn about how the rest of the country does the job, why do you even bother to frequent the board and add your two cents to everything?
    Because he thrives on the attention. He doesn't even care if it is good or bad, it is attention.
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    you need an IC for a car fire ? unless it is a large vehicle or threatening a structure , its a single engine response.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    you need an IC for a car fire ? unless it is a large vehicle or threatening a structure , its a single engine response.
    According to NIMS every response has an Incident Commander.

    And yes, in both of my departments, there is an Incident Commander who is not involved in active firefighting operations for vehicle fires.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    According to NIMS every response has an Incident Commander.

    And yes, in both of my departments, there is an Incident Commander who is not involved in active firefighting operations for vehicle fires.
    seriously -you send a separate IC ?
    ?

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    WOW!! YOU HANDLED A CAR FIRE WITHOUT HAVING TO CALL MUTUAL AID!! Or was the AMA FD engine coming to this too? How that in any way relates to talking abut structures fires is beyond me.

    The point was simple. In fact I actually stated the point. Had it been a structure fire we would have had 4 interior members (2 interior crews), a pump operator and an IC.

    If you and your guys can stand outside and listen to victims scream as they burn to death Hell has a special place for you. It isn't the fact that we are always successful, it is the fact that when conditions in the building allow, WE AT LEAST TRY.

    And I have stated on many occasions that in a rescue situation with VIABLE victims, I will enter with myself as IC, another interior member and a pump operator. In fact, all of our officers will.

    However the only time that risk is justified without being supported by a backup line is in a rescue situation with viable victims.



    I would find it humiliating to call myself a firefighter on a fire department that can't do a damn thing interior without waiting for the response of an AMA Engine company. But then again you have no conscience, no understanding of dedication or committment, and certainly a flase sense of pride.

    Pride kills.

    Bottom line is the lives of my members is not worth upholding personal or department pride.

    This isn't about dedication or commitment but it's about keeping my members uninjured so that they can fulfill the most important role of all ... Breadwinner of the family.

    If we have the resources to go interior before the AMA engine arrives, I will. if I don't, I have no issues in waiting for sufficient manpower for safe operations.


    And you are willing under any circumstances, even when if you had entered you could have saved them, to write them off as cavalierly as a tax deduction.

    And when could I have entered?

    We have had not a rescue situation on my VFD in over 10 years, according to the longer-term members. I have been on less than 3.

    Math challenged?

    Again, as I have stated, rescue is a different situation where I will commit short-staffed, as long as the victims are realistically viable. Otherwise, I will not commit interior. Too much risk for too little gain.



    Did you do any counseling? Did you attempt to correct his behavior? Or was it easier to get rid of someone who questioned your Bull Schitt?

    Yes. he was counseled by both the Chief and the Captain for multiple previous issues with the members.

    The fact is he had no experience and felt that due to his age, he had the right to order younger members with experience and far more training.

    He was counseled that even though he was older, and had more life experience, including service as a marine, that he was junior to the already trained personnel and was expected to act in that manner. He simply could not.

    He apparently had the same issues on the combo department with the paid and more experienced volunteer staffing. POV operation was also a significant issue on both departments.


    Then all of you should quit and go join the checker league. If you are willing to risk nothing then you most certainly are NOT firefighters.

    The members are quite willing to take risk, but simply put, it's my job to make sure that they all will be able to go home and go to work tomorrow.

    It's my job to make assessments as to where they should and should not be. It's not thier's.

    There are times that they don't like my decisions. Too bad.

    As far as risk, you and I are miles apart on what's acceptable, and always will be


    Yeah, because it is what FIREFIGHTERS DO. Funny thing is...That alone is why you call the AMA FD.

    When manpower, resources and conditions allow.

    Even if conditions allow, if the manpower isn't adequate, it's not safe. Simple. That's why we have the AMA agreement. To supplement our manpower so that we will have adequate manpower for safe interior operations.

    Same reason that hundreds of departments have AMA agreements. To provide supplementary manpower.

    Again, I have no issue with not going interior. You do.



    Excuses, and still not telling the board or citizens the truth.

    [COLOR="#FF0000"]The citizens are very well aware of the fire protection being provided.

    And you seem too fixated on not doing them when they actually occur. Dude, if I was on that career FD you have come in for AMA I would be laughing at you every time you called us. They aren't mutual aid for structure fires, they ARE your response for structure fires. You guys are ancillary to what they do.

    I'm fixated with every one of my members showing up at work the day after a fire. That's my primary job as an officer. Everything else is secondary.

    As far as who's primary, we could debate that all day long. I have no issues with the AMA department being the primary source of manpower for our structural fires.

    That may change. that may not change. But for the moment, that is the reality in our district. And I have no issues in saying that.

    You are the one that seems hung up on that.



    It will never even be on the table if you don't stop the charade of being a fully functional fire department.

    It will never be on the table. Period.

    It is highly unlikely that even for a guaranteed engine crew the residents would be willing to see a 3x increase in fire taxes, as they already pay 13 mils.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    seriously -you send a separate IC ?
    Yes.

    On my combo department, during the day, the Deputy Chief may respond as IC, or the Shift captain will respond but will not be involved in fire operations and will serve as IC.

    There will be volunteers responding POV or in additional engines and/or the heavy rescue to supplement myself, the shift firefighter operator and daytime firefighter.

    On my VFD, the first due officer will not be involved in fire operations unless needed and will designate himself as IC.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    No disagreement that a core function of the fire department is to put out fires, and all fire departments do that.

    It just varies as to what stage in the fire that occurs.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Excuses for inaction, no realistic plan to change the situation, and saying it will likely never change, are all recipes for disaster.

    You call safe operating procedures designed to have a minimum staffing level before interior operations are started excuses.

    I call it procedures for ensuring safe operations for the members and placing them clearly as the priority.

    As far as plans to change the situation ....

    Formalized procedures and training, and dedicated rapid deployment handlines for
    exterior/transitional operations.

    Increased recruitment through the use of newspaper articles and mailers. To this date,
    those efforts have brought in 4 new members. Unfortunately one was recently
    deployed overseas and one had issues within the department. But we still have 2
    exterior members functioning within the department.

    AMA on all structural incidents.

    Increased training budget.

    Increased live burn training and increased outside training.

    Development of a training area beginning with live car burn props, roof/ventilation prop
    and live burn pits.

    I never stated that it would never change, but there is certainly that possibility. The reality is though that even if we do see a change in terms of recruitment, it will be a while before they are up and functioning.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I have no need to feel validated.

    I'm proud of what my VFD does with the manpower and resources available. And quite frankly, we have a significantly better track record than most of the other VFDs in the parish. Or the neighboring parishes.

    And I have no problems in admitting part of that lies in the fact that we have the small city AMA department to our east and my combination department to our west.

    The community has no issues in supporting us as evidenced by the consistent renewal of the fire district milage.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Your minimum staffing requirements, which you admit you can't meet, eliminate any interior actions until the 4 person AMA FD engine arrives. So yes, you have rationalized an excuse for inaction when the rest of the country begins actions, when appropriate, after size-up.

    Had a car fire yesterday.

    Myself as the IC, 4 interior members including a former captain and a driver.

    Had it been a structure we would have had 2 interior teams.

    As far as what the rest of the country does, I really don't give a damn. You want to call 2 interior members, with no backup team and a driver exterior safe, have at it. But to me, that's a recipe for disaster should anything happen to that interior crew.

    And one day, it will.



    Blah Blah Blah...Your continued parroting of this would be admirable if it wasn't an excuse for doing nothing meaningful until the PAID CAREER PROFESSIONAL TRAINED AMA FD EGINE ARRIVED and did what you won't do.

    You are really hung up on the fact that most of time our interior ops are based on the use of the AMA engine, aren't you?



    As far as plans to change the situation ....

    Formalized procedures and training, and dedicated rapid deployment handlines for
    exterior/transitional operations.

    So nothing has changed. Still outside with your exterior members while gramma burns alive inside.

    And people die in fires. It happens. Get over it.

    Increased recruitment through the use of newspaper articles and mailers. To this date,
    those efforts have brought in 4 new members. Unfortunately one was recently
    deployed overseas and one had issues within the department. But we still have 2
    exterior members functioning within the department.

    One had issues? You mean the guy that was previously trained and probably told you what a farse you were? Two more exterior guys? So still nothing has changed.

    The guy with one month of experience as a volunteer at the neighboring combo department? He was let go by them as well a couple of weeks later for the same issue.


    AMA on all structural incidents.

    Because someone has to do what your FD can't and won't. Actually go inside and put the fire out.

    Can't because right now we don't have enough responding interior members much of the time and won't because it's not safe to operate interior at that level.

    Maybe you are just much tougher and braver than we are, or we're just smarter and understand what can happen to the members when you try to operate short staffed.

    Again. We are the priority. And as IC I will ensure that every one of my members go home. All the friggin' time.


    Increased training budget.

    Yet no one can go inside.

    You and going inside again......

    Increased live burn training and increased outside training.

    Yet no one can go inside.

    Staffing.

    Development of a training area beginning with live car burn props, roof/ventilation prop
    and live burn pits.

    Will that finally allow people to go inside? If not, why spend the money?



    Because structural fires represents 1-2% of our runs.

    Car fires, brush fires and MVAs represent the bulk of our incidents. That is what we are building the training center for ... the bulk of what we do.

    Live burn props will be the ones at the neighboring LSU and my combo departments facility. It is simply not feasible at this time to build our own.

    You just seem so fixated with structural operations.


    I never stated that it would never change, but there is certainly that possibility. The reality is though that even if we do see a change in terms of recruitment, it will be a while before they are up and functioning.

    Yes, YOU did. You have said repeatedly due to the culture in that area your situation likely will never change.


    We're hoping that we can, but there is a good possibility it will not.

    At some point there may be funding available for some career members, but even that's not likely .
    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Do I like it? No.

    But he reality is that in rural areas with extended response times unless the occupants are able to self-extricate it simply is not reasonable to expect them to be viable when we arrive.

    Best case for my VFD is a response time of about 8-10 minutes, and that is in the extreme southern part of the district, where the majority of the members live.

    Typical case is probably 12-14 minutes in the southern 30% of the district.

    And in the mid and northern parts of the district, where there is very little population and 1-2 members, we're looking at 12-15 plus, and that even is with calling the department to the north in right away, as they are equally distant.

    Our district is narrow and long and there is very limited population, and limited membership in the northern 70%. The good news is we have a working structural fire in that 70% of the district once very 3-4 years.

    That's not being negative. That is simply the reality as driven by today's hydrocarbon based world.

    And there are very limited ways to deliver the pubed message to those folks as there is no real community in our fire district. So it's very frustrating.

    The fact is any structural fire in the northern half of our district has a very high probability of being very heavily or fully involved on arrival simply due to time. And that is based on historical data from fires in that area of the district.

    And as an IC, my members do come first. All the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    The likelihood of survival in a house fire in my combo district, which is where I am employed, is much better.

    Limited full-time staffing. 6x the volunteers, more evenly spread throughout the district. Live-in volunteers at 4 of our 5 volunteer stations. Better trained and experienced volunteers including 10-12 that work as career elsewhere.

    And a much better community infrastructure to spread the word about firesafety.

    Yes, much better situation there.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    According to NIMS every response has an Incident Commander.

    And yes, in both of my departments, there is an Incident Commander who is not involved in active firefighting operations for vehicle fires.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    WOW!! YOU HANDLED A CAR FIRE WITHOUT HAVING TO CALL MUTUAL AID!! Or was the AMA FD engine coming to this too? How that in any way relates to talking abut structures fires is beyond me.

    The point was simple. In fact I actually stated the point. Had it been a structure fire we would have had 4 interior members (2 interior crews), a pump operator and an IC.

    If you and your guys can stand outside and listen to victims scream as they burn to death Hell has a special place for you. It isn't the fact that we are always successful, it is the fact that when conditions in the building allow, WE AT LEAST TRY.

    And I have stated on many occasions that in a rescue situation with VIABLE victims, I will enter with myself as IC, another interior member and a pump operator. In fact, all of our officers will.

    However the only time that risk is justified without being supported by a backup line is in a rescue situation with viable victims.



    I would find it humiliating to call myself a firefighter on a fire department that can't do a damn thing interior without waiting for the response of an AMA Engine company. But then again you have no conscience, no understanding of dedication or committment, and certainly a flase sense of pride.

    Pride kills.

    Bottom line is the lives of my members is not worth upholding personal or department pride.

    This isn't about dedication or commitment but it's about keeping my members uninjured so that they can fulfill the most important role of all ... Breadwinner of the family.

    If we have the resources to go interior before the AMA engine arrives, I will. if I don't, I have no issues in waiting for sufficient manpower for safe operations.


    And you are willing under any circumstances, even when if you had entered you could have saved them, to write them off as cavalierly as a tax deduction.

    And when could I have entered?

    We have had not a rescue situation on my VFD in over 10 years, according to the longer-term members. I have been on less than 3.

    Math challenged?

    Again, as I have stated, rescue is a different situation where I will commit short-staffed, as long as the victims are realistically viable. Otherwise, I will not commit interior. Too much risk for too little gain.



    Did you do any counseling? Did you attempt to correct his behavior? Or was it easier to get rid of someone who questioned your Bull Schitt?

    Yes. he was counseled by both the Chief and the Captain for multiple previous issues with the members.

    The fact is he had no experience and felt that due to his age, he had the right to order younger members with experience and far more training.

    He was counseled that even though he was older, and had more life experience, including service as a marine, that he was junior to the already trained personnel and was expected to act in that manner. He simply could not.

    He apparently had the same issues on the combo department with the paid and more experienced volunteer staffing. POV operation was also a significant issue on both departments.


    Then all of you should quit and go join the checker league. If you are willing to risk nothing then you most certainly are NOT firefighters.

    The members are quite willing to take risk, but simply put, it's my job to make sure that they all will be able to go home and go to work tomorrow.

    It's my job to make assessments as to where they should and should not be. It's not thier's.

    There are times that they don't like my decisions. Too bad.

    As far as risk, you and I are miles apart on what's acceptable, and always will be


    Yeah, because it is what FIREFIGHTERS DO. Funny thing is...That alone is why you call the AMA FD.

    When manpower, resources and conditions allow.

    Even if conditions allow, if the manpower isn't adequate, it's not safe. Simple. That's why we have the AMA agreement. To supplement our manpower so that we will have adequate manpower for safe interior operations.

    Same reason that hundreds of departments have AMA agreements. To provide supplementary manpower.

    Again, I have no issue with not going interior. You do.



    Excuses, and still not telling the board or citizens the truth.

    [COLOR="#FF0000"]The citizens are very well aware of the fire protection being provided.

    And you seem too fixated on not doing them when they actually occur. Dude, if I was on that career FD you have come in for AMA I would be laughing at you every time you called us. They aren't mutual aid for structure fires, they ARE your response for structure fires. You guys are ancillary to what they do.

    I'm fixated with every one of my members showing up at work the day after a fire. That's my primary job as an officer. Everything else is secondary.

    As far as who's primary, we could debate that all day long. I have no issues with the AMA department being the primary source of manpower for our structural fires.

    That may change. that may not change. But for the moment, that is the reality in our district. And I have no issues in saying that.

    You are the one that seems hung up on that.



    It will never even be on the table if you don't stop the charade of being a fully functional fire department.

    It will never be on the table. Period.

    It is highly unlikely that even for a guaranteed engine crew the residents would be willing to see a 3x increase in fire taxes, as they already pay 13 mils.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Yes.

    On my combo department, during the day, the Deputy Chief may respond as IC, or the Shift captain will respond but will not be involved in fire operations and will serve as IC.

    There will be volunteers responding POV or in additional engines and/or the heavy rescue to supplement myself, the shift firefighter operator and daytime firefighter.

    On my VFD, the first due officer will not be involved in fire operations unless needed and will designate himself as IC.

    All of which further proves why the citizens in your VFD would be better off with a six year old boy or Australian dog providing their rescue capability.
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    LA, I would like to know how big your district is. I know I have stated it before but my district is 2040 square miles, so pretty big. It grabbed my attention when you started putting up numbers for the southern part of the district on how there would not be any one alive if a fire occurred at that location. Do you have a map that is dotted with skulls and crossbones for the houses that are "too far away"? I have never climbed aboard the rig and though to myself "why bother? It is going to take too long to get there. They are going to be dead when we get there." It sounds like there is a circle of life around the station and everything outside that circle is written off. I find your thinking troubling. I am not silly enough to think that there would be much of a chance of saving a house that is 60 miles from the station, but I have not convinced my self and others at the station that there would be no chance at all and to just say oh well, not my problem.
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    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    LA, I would like to know how big your district is.

    A little over 100 square miles. It's fairly narrow at about 5 miles but long at about 23 miles. All but two of our members live in the bottom 20%.

    I know I have stated it before but my district is 2040 square miles, so pretty big. It grabbed my attention when you started putting up numbers for the southern part of the district on how there would not be any one alive if a fire occurred at that location.

    Actually that would be the northern part where we have essentially no members. We have 2 stations but they are basically there for rating purposes. At one point there were a couple of members up that way but they have moved out.

    The bottom line is that just about every fire that we have had in that part of the district over the past 10 years have been fully involved on arrival. So history does tell us that the chance for survival in that area of the district is very low. That area's housing stock is primarily mobile homes and older wood-frame structures.

    Over the past few years there has been some newer development as it's quite rural and the land has been fairly cheap.


    Do you have a map that is dotted with skulls and crossbones for the houses that are "too far away"?

    No, but again, the fire history in that area is pretty clear and consistent.

    Of course, one of the newer site built homes has yet to get to the working fire stage, so that may change the outcome to some degree.


    I have never climbed aboard the rig and though to myself "why bother?

    Neither have I, but there are locations or neighborhoods or geographic areas in any community where a well-involved fire is more likely either due to building type, water supply, access or travel time.

    Certainly if you know your area, you likely will have expecatations based on the phone reports, and the history.



    It is going to take too long to get there.

    Travel time should play a factor in your planning. The longer the response time, likely the greater the involvement and less likelihood of victim survival.

    The farther out the run the more mutual aid I will call for prior to arrival.


    They are going to be dead when we get there.

    See above. The longer the response time the less likely victims will be viable. That's just simple fire behavior and human physiology.


    It sounds like there is a circle of life around the station and everything outside that circle is written off. I find your thinking troubling.

    Again response time vs. fire and smoke conditions. It has nothing to do with what we wish for, but has everything to do with the time that the response time gives the fire to grow and smoke to fill the structure.

    Yes, there actually is a circle of probable and viable life.


    I am not silly enough to think that there would be much of a chance of saving a house that is 60 miles from the station, but I have not convinced my self and others at the station that there would be no chance at all and to just say oh well, not my problem.
    Bottom line is that we can't change, given extended time, what the fire has done and most of the time we can't change what it wants to do.

    As cold as it may sound, the fire isn't my problem, and I will not risk the lives of my personnel unless there is adamn good chance of changing the outcome as it's not thier problem either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    A little over 100 square miles. It's fairly narrow at about 5 miles but long at about 23 miles. All but two of our members live in the bottom 20%.
    You've routinely said that you cover 80 square miles with 7 stations. Which is it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    You've routinely said that you cover 80 square miles with 7 stations. Which is it?
    My combo district covers 176 miles from 6 stations.

    We also cover the state's 26 square mile Camp Minden Facility with the apparatus in thier station.

    That's about 200 square miles from a total of 7 stations.

    Don't know where you got the 86 square miles from.

    Though it's a bigger district we have a better distribution of members in the rural area than in my VFD. We also have 2 live-in members at all 3 stations in the rural area (plus another station in the suburban core), so we can get a truck up from there in less than a minute the majority of the time.

    In fact, we had a trailer fire a couple of months ago where 3 engines from the live-in stations beat the apparatus from the career staffed station, and had the fire knocked down before they arrived.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 07-07-2013 at 09:40 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Bottom line is that we can't change, given extended time, what the fire has done and most of the time we can't change what it wants to do.

    As cold as it may sound, the fire isn't my problem, and I will not risk the lives of my personnel unless there is adamn good chance of changing the outcome as it's not thier problem either.
    What do you mean the fire's 'Not Your Problem'. By the very definition and job description of 'Fire Department' , it is indeed your problem.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Bottom line is that we can't change, given extended time, what the fire has done and most of the time we can't change what it wants to do.

    As cold as it may sound, the fire isn't my problem, and I will not risk the lives of my personnel unless there is adamn good chance of changing the outcome as it's not thier problem either.
    All of which further proves why the citizens in your VFD would be better off with a six year old boy or Australian dog providing their rescue capability.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAFireEducator
    Don't know where you got the 86 square miles from.
    From you...

    Quote Originally Posted by LAFireEducator
    My current combo department, where i am employed full-time, has 80 plus firefighters (interior and exterior-only), support pesonnel, juniors and dispatchers supported by 8 full-time personnel...

    ...My volunteer department is another story. It is a very small community of probably 3000 over about 80 square miles...
    Quote Originally Posted by LAFireEducator
    Volunteer Department -

    80 square mile response area with 5 stations.
    It appears my original post, stating 7 stations, was wrong. I stand corrected on that.
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    LA,

    How do you get credit for unmanned stations with no volunteers anywhere near them? Of what value at all are these stations?

    Again, it just seems like more of the sham you are passing off as a fire department. "Golly we are safer here we live close to the fire department." Unbeknownst to them the station is unmanned and has no one responding to it. Brilliant part of the charade...

    This just keeps getting better and better and LA keeps feeding us the information.
    Last edited by FyredUp; 07-07-2013 at 10:46 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Bottom line is that we can't change, given extended time, what the fire has done and most of the time we can't change what it wants to do.

    As cold as it may sound, the fire isn't my problem, and I will not risk the lives of my personnel unless there is adamn good chance of changing the outcome as it's not thier problem either.
    I guess where we differ is that I joined the fire dept. to make it my problem. Weird huh? We have a much larger district with about the same number of residents with one station. We know there isn't much chance, but we don't make a decision about viability until we get there and let the conditions dictate a response. We keep our options open and try to not be defeatist.
    The fire service is about service to our fellow man.
    There is a trust that must not be broken and we are the keepers of that trust.
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    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    I guess where we differ is that I joined the fire dept. to make it my problem. Weird huh? We have a much larger district with about the same number of residents with one station. We know there isn't much chance, but we don't make a decision about viability until we get there and let the conditions dictate a response. We keep our options open and try to not be defeatist.
    Conrad427...quick question...when you are paged out for a fully involved structure fire that is 60 miles away....do you respond code 3 the entire way? Figure that to be a one way 50-60 minute ride...what are your expectations of what you are going to find on arrival?
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Conrad427...quick question...when you are paged out for a fully involved structure fire that is 60 miles away....do you respond code 3 the entire way? Figure that to be a one way 50-60 minute ride...what are your expectations of what you are going to find on arrival?
    Maybe a basement maybe not. Who called it in? Our initial information is always sketchy. Distance does not dictate if we hurry or not. Regardless, our rural engine, tender, neighboring engine and tender, and at least a couple of brush trucks depending on the time of year, wouldn't want a fully involved structure fire moving to the grass and burning up a haystack worth more than the former house!
    The fire service is about service to our fellow man.
    There is a trust that must not be broken and we are the keepers of that trust.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    LA,

    How do you get credit for unmanned stations with no volunteers anywhere near them? Of what value at all are these stations?

    Again, it just seems like more of the sham you are passing off as a fire department. "Golly we are safer here we live close to the fire department." Unbeknownst to them the station is unmanned and has no one responding to it. Brilliant part of the charade...

    This just keeps getting better and better and LA keeps feeding us the information.
    The rating system in LA requires stations at prescribed distances to receive full credit for station distribution. the rating only require that the apparatus from that station responds to one structural incident (fire, alarm or smoke report) per year to receive credit for the station.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 07-08-2013 at 08:43 AM.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    The rating system in LA requires stations at prescribed distances to receive full credit for station distribution. They only require that they respond to one structural incident (fire, alarm or smoke report) per year to receive credit for the station.
    Wow!! So it seems parts of the entire state would be better off with a six year old boy or Australian dog providing their rescue capability.

    Mediocrity is institutional.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Wow!! So it seems parts of the entire state would be better off with a six year old boy or Australian dog providing their rescue capability.

    Mediocrity is institutional.
    No.

    It's not uncommon to have volunteer fire districts in LA as large as 400-450 square miles with 7-10 stations. Those districts may only do 2 or 3 structure fires per year and likely do not require the apparatus from all stations to respond.

    In many places the "one structural incident" requirement is realistic given that it could represent 33%-50% of a departments total structural fires.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    The rating system in LA requires stations at prescribed distances to receive full credit for station distribution. the rating only require that the apparatus from that station responds to one structural incident (fire, alarm or smoke report) per year to receive credit for the station.
    What a joke. A station with no staffing gets credit as long as a rig responds to one structure fire call in a year.

    Does your chief keep track of that so he makes sure those unstaffed stations get their rigs out for that one call? I can't help but picture this scenario. "Holy crap we need to get tender X from station X out to a call or we won't get credit. Bobby go get it for this call!"
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
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    It all sounds complicated.
    The fire service is about service to our fellow man.
    There is a trust that must not be broken and we are the keepers of that trust.
    Captain Dave LeBlanc

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    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    It all sounds complicated.
    Not really.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    What a joke. A station with no staffing gets credit as long as a rig responds to one structure fire call in a year.

    Does your chief keep track of that so he makes sure those unstaffed stations get their rigs out for that one call? I can't help but picture this scenario. "Holy crap we need to get tender X from station X out to a call or we won't get credit. Bobby go get it for this call!"
    "pencil whipping" can do wonders
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