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Thread: Lt. Ray hits another home run!

  1. #526
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    Which is why you're a delusional buffoon. You can't just decide to see a world that isn't black in white, set in stone, AS BLACK AND WHITE. Not everything is shall or shall not. Not every incident can be boiled down to commit everything or commit nothing.... This is quite possibly one of your dumbest posts yet, and it's a gateway to see just how delusional you are.

    I see things in black and white. Shall and Shall Not. It's the way that I work.


    Disagree. The whole fire service doesn't need to sink to your pathetic level of fire protection.

    Fine.

    Then continue to injure and kill members in situations with no viable gain.

    I'm not the one that will have to look the family in the eye.

    As far as my operations, I will only accept risk if there is reasonable benefit.



    NO. It's the core function as defined by everything. Period, end of discussion. It's the core mission as defined by history. It's the core mission as defined by everyone in the fire service except your pathetic delusional azz, and, most importantly, it's the core mission as defined by the citizens in your response district. Go ask a random citizen, not anyone you are "friends" with, in your district, what they expect the fire department to do if they call you because their house is on fire, and/or if their loved one is trapped. I'd be willing to wager that they are going to say "Put the fire out." and "Save my grandma."

    And we do that when we have the resources. If we don't, my members come first. Always.


    Almost comparable to a structure fire....................

    Just used that example to state that there are times where we have the manpower.


    So, which way are you going to have it? You can't play the theoretical card on one scenario, and then say you'll never have a victim rescue due to the size of your district. Which way is it? Is it black and white? Or is there a gray area now?

    It's unlikely that in the majority of our district occupants that do not self-extricate before we arrive will be viable. Response time and building construction are the major factors.

    That's a pretty black and white statement.

    Again, that is simply the reality of our district.



    Well personally, I am a little bit yeah. On one hand, you're supposed to be a "fire department," but you can't conduct operations until a real fire department shows up. So yeah, it bothers me a little. On the other hand, I'm thankful at least someone in Louisiana is willing to show up and do the hard work that you refuse to do.

    Can't generally conduct INTERIOR operations safely until AMA shows up. Yes.

    This has nothing to do with not wanting to do the hard work but has everything to do with having enough personnel to safely operate interior with enough resources to provide a backup line.

    It's really not complicated.



    That's a great attitude to have, expecially from a so-called "firefighter." "People die, get over it." Do you realize how pathetic that sounds? How low of the low of human scum that makes you? Why the hell are you even in the fire service if that's your attitude? No wonder not a damn thing has changed on your sham of a VFD. With an attitude like that, no wonder you have recruitment issues.

    Yup, that's me. I realize the limitations of the fires service, especially in rural areas.

    Funding issues. Response time. Water issues. Access issues. Manpower issues. Lack of building or fire and life safety codes. Building stock issues. Those are the facts. I'm sorry that looking at them honestly and objectively offends you, but they are what they are.

    And most of the time those factors cannot be modified.

    Yes. people will die in fires. And most of the time the fire department can do nothing to change that.


    I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that everyone here is tougher, braver, smarter, and has a better understanding than you or your pathetic FD.

    I doubt that.



    Kinda the best way to put the fire out..............

    Given that it can be done in a safe manner with minimal risk to the members.


    Again, what if they've been able to relocate in the house, away from the bulk of the heat, fire and smoke, but can't make it out of the house? You're right, Mr. Progressive thinker, all knowing and understanding of the fire service. That could never happen. We don't live in a gray world, we live in a black and white world. People are either alive, or dead. There's no way they could have moved to a safer location in the house and still been viable... My mistake....

    Possible. But unlikely.


    So, are you going to sit here and tell me, that someone who relocated to the opposite side of the house, away from the majority of the smoke, fire and heat, but is unable to get out of the house, is going to be dead in 15 minutes? Away from the fire, in a room, with the door shut, there's no chance for survival?

    Never said that.

    But the reality is that in our district, where the majority of the structures in the northern part of the district are older mobile homes, is that they will be fully involved on arrival.

    That's the history of fires in that part of the district.

    So the answer to your question is that in that area, the chances that the occupants will be viable is slight. And generally the fire and interior operations will pose significant risk to the members.

    Simply said, generally not worth the risk the majority of the time given the very limited chances of survival.




    Yadda yadda yadda. The same old tire line of bullschitt from you. Please then, do tell, how the department that Fyred described from TN, manages to accomplish more than your pathetic VFD with fewer members, apparatus, training, and a whole hell of a lot smaller budget.

    Never been to that department in TN, so I have no idea. And frankly, really don't care.

    I have seen some small departments in small communities accomplish some very special things.




    So you've wasted money, wasted even more money, and then called someone in to do the actual work for you.
    Nope... and Nope.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 07-10-2013 at 10:11 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Nope... and Nope.
    yep --- and yep
    ?

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    Originally Posted by Chenzo
    Which is why you're a delusional buffoon. You can't just decide to see a world that isn't black in white, set in stone, AS BLACK AND WHITE. Not everything is shall or shall not. Not every incident can be boiled down to commit everything or commit nothing.... This is quite possibly one of your dumbest posts yet, and it's a gateway to see just how delusional you are.

    I see things in black and white. Shall and Shall Not. It's the way that I work.

    So not only is your logic base pathetic, you are boring too. Imagine that. Black and white, right or wrong, no shades of gray, no wiggle room. No wonder it is so dam(n) easy for you to write of people and things. It isn't anything more than you simply don't care becaue your convoluted thought process won't allow you to.

    Disagree. The whole fire service doesn't need to sink to your pathetic level of fire protection.

    Fine.

    Oh it is. Your way of thinking is pure poison and will destroy the image of the fire service.

    Then continue to injure and kill members in situations with no viable gain.

    Blah Blah Blah...The same old tired nonsensical crap you spew when you know you re cornered and being exposed for the buffoon you are. TELL THE TRUTH, let the citizens and the board decide what they want to do.

    I'm not the one that will have to look the family in the eye.

    33 years in the fire service, all spent on AGGRESSIVE, INTERIOR FIRE ATTACK AND SEARCH fire departments, not one serious injury that required an overnight hospital stay. WAIT!! How can that be? We should all be dead...RIGHT LA? RIGHT? You see your stupid Black and White rationalizations allow for no use of leadership skills. You simply say "It is on fire, wait for AMA to arrive." BRILLIANT strategic plan.

    As far as my operations, I will only accept risk if there is reasonable benefit.


    Like saving lives? Like saving their home and possesions when you arrive at a fire in one or 2 rooms? Keep making excuses, so far it seems to be what you are best at.

    NO. It's the core function as defined by everything. Period, end of discussion. It's the core mission as defined by history. It's the core mission as defined by everyone in the fire service except your pathetic delusional azz, and, most importantly, it's the core mission as defined by the citizens in your response district. Go ask a random citizen, not anyone you are "friends" with, in your district, what they expect the fire department to do if they call you because their house is on fire, and/or if their loved one is trapped. I'd be willing to wager that they are going to say "Put the fire out." and "Save my grandma."

    And we do that when we have the resources. If we don't, my members come first. Always.

    With your core philosophy it surprises me your vfd has any members at all.

    Almost comparable to a structure fire....................

    Just used that example to state that there are times where we have the manpower.

    WOWSER, you needed most of the vfd to handle a car fire? Dang now that is impressive.

    So, which way are you going to have it? You can't play the theoretical card on one scenario, and then say you'll never have a victim rescue due to the size of your district. Which way is it? Is it black and white? Or is there a gray area now?

    It's unlikely that in the majority of our district occupants that do not self-extricate before we arrive will be viable. Response time and building construction are the major factors.

    That's a pretty black and white statement.

    Again, that is simply the reality of our district.


    Excuses to make you feel better. Nothing more.


    Well personally, I am a little bit yeah. On one hand, you're supposed to be a "fire department," but you can't conduct operations until a real fire department shows up. So yeah, it bothers me a little. On the other hand, I'm thankful at least someone in Louisiana is willing to show up and do the hard work that you refuse to do.

    Can't generally conduct INTERIOR operations safely until AMA shows up. Yes.

    This has nothing to do with not wanting to do the hard work but has everything to do with having enough personnel to safely operate interior with enough resources to provide a backup line.

    It's really not complicated.


    The pathetic part is you are okay with them doing the heavy lifting and taking the risks for YOUR vfd's area.

    That's a great attitude to have, expecially from a so-called "firefighter." "People die, get over it." Do you realize how pathetic that sounds? How low of the low of human scum that makes you? Why the hell are you even in the fire service if that's your attitude? No wonder not a damn thing has changed on your sham of a VFD. With an attitude like that, no wonder you have recruitment issues.

    Yup, that's me. I realize the limitations of the fires service, especially in rural areas.

    Funding issues. Response time. Water issues. Access issues. Manpower issues. Lack of building or fire and life safety codes. Building stock issues. Those are the facts. I'm sorry that looking at them honestly and objectively offends you, but they are what they are.

    And most of the time those factors cannot be modified.

    Yes. people will die in fires. And most of the time the fire department can do nothing to change that.


    The truth is simply this, YES, there are times we can't change the outcome and people will die. The difference is a firefighter is not so cavalier about it and would never say things like "People die, get over it." Jesus man, don't you have one shred of human compassion or decency? How about you tell your board and citizens that little gem...How about you tell one of your citizens that is unfortunate enough to lose a family member that...You see when you put it in that context you come across as a completely insensitive3 bastard that has no business being involved in the fire service.
    I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that everyone here is tougher, braver, smarter, and has a better understanding than you or your pathetic FD.

    I doubt that.

    From what you've posted you have little to support your opinion.

    Kinda the best way to put the fire out..............

    Given that it can be done in a safe manner with minimal risk to the members.

    More excuses...your best skill.

    Again, what if they've been able to relocate in the house, away from the bulk of the heat, fire and smoke, but can't make it out of the house? You're right, Mr. Progressive thinker, all knowing and understanding of the fire service. That could never happen. We don't live in a gray world, we live in a black and white world. People are either alive, or dead. There's no way they could have moved to a safer location in the house and still been viable... My mistake....

    Possible. But unlikely.

    Oh? And how do you know that?

    So, are you going to sit here and tell me, that someone who relocated to the opposite side of the house, away from the majority of the smoke, fire and heat, but is unable to get out of the house, is going to be dead in 15 minutes? Away from the fire, in a room, with the door shut, there's no chance for survival?

    Never said that.

    But the reality is that in our district, where the majority of the structures in the northern part of the district are older mobile homes, is that they will be fully involved on arrival.

    That's the history of fires in that part of the district.

    So the answer to your question is that in that area, the chances that the occupants will be viable is slight. And generally the fire and interior operations will pose significant risk to the members.

    Simply said, generally not worth the risk.


    The northern area? You mean where those 2 stations that have no staffing are located? The sham houses for the phony rating?

    Yadda yadda yadda. The same old tire line of bullschitt from you. Please then, do tell, how the department that Fyred described from TN, manages to accomplish more than your pathetic VFD with fewer members, apparatus, training, and a whole hell of a lot smaller budget.

    Never been to that department in TN, so I have no idea. And frankly, really don't care.

    You don't care seems to be your default answer. You don't care about people dying, you don't care about homes and businesses burning down, you don't care about not having the balls to tell the citizens and the baord the truth about how unprotected they are, you don't care about stories of other FDs with far less than you have doing far more. You really are a sad little man...

    So you've wasted money, wasted even more money, and then called someone in to do the actual work for you.


    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Nope... and Nope.

    It seems the only one you aren't denying is calling someone else in to do the work for you.
    More blather form the safety guru...
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  4. #529
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    Once again, victim rescue and suppression were defined as a core function of the FIRE DEPARTMENT long before I got involved.

    Once again, an individual department can define what they want to be or to not be a core function for themselves as an organization. However, those choices will define whether or not that organization is a FIRE DEPARTMENT or merely posing as one.

    Actual FIRE DEPARTMENTS know that victim rescue supported by interior fire attack is one of the most core fire service functions and will make every effort to be able to provide that.

    It's absolutely incredible as to just how much of a buffoon you are!

    And I am sure that every department out there makes every effort to do just that.
    Uhhmmm, from your own statements you've pretty much stated that you and your VFD in fact don't make "every effort to do just that".

    That being said, there are communities and departments that simply do not have the resources - manpower, funding, apparatus or training - to do that.

    Like it or not there are a bunch of departments that operate from a manpower pool that simply isn't deep enough to provide staffing to ensure consistent SAFE interior operations. Or funding guaranteeing reliable apparatus. Or resources to allow for adequate interior training, or enough working fires to develop a level of experience and confidence.
    And that's been acknowledged and addressed multiple times.


    There are places where SAFE interior ops and victim rescue is simply not possible. And they are still fire departments in every sense of the word.
    NO, they absolutely aren't! The fact that you believe that and would make that claim shows that your buffoonery knows no limits!
    Last edited by FireMedic049; 07-10-2013 at 01:22 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    Uhhmmm, from your own statements you've pretty much stated that you and your VFD in fact don't make "every effort to do just that".

    And exactly where do we not make every effort to operate interior whenever possible?

    That doesn't mean that we are able to operate interior every time, but certainly we make the effort, and when the trained and experienced manpower allows us to do so, as well as the fire conditions, we do operate interior.

    Yes, there are times that we don't, and it's not because we are not making the effort, but it's simply because we do not have either the quantity or quality of interior members on scene to operate safely.

    making arrangements for AMA to supplement our limited interior manpower is making an effort. Increasing live fire training is making an effort. Increasing recruiting operations for both interior and exterior members in making an effort.

    So exactly where are we not making efforts?

    The unfortunate fact is that most VFDs in our parish, as well as the neighboring parishes have problems with having enough interior members responding to constantly perform interior fire operations.

    And what is even more unfortunate is that we are better off than many of them.


    And that's been acknowledged and addressed multiple times.

    But yet there are those that still seem to have the expectations that every department should be able to operate interior all of the time.

    NO, they absolutely aren't! The fact that you believe that and would make that claim shows that your buffoonery knows no limits!
    If the community defines them as such, they are a fire department, or at least are a fire department in the eyes of the community.

    And in the end, that is really all that matters.
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    Nope... and Nope.

    It seems the only one you aren't denying is calling someone else in to do the work for you.

    So let's take my previous VFD ....

    There were many times that our AMA arrived on-scene prior to us, primarily due to proximity and knocked down the fire before we arrived.

    Were they doing the work for us in those cases?

    Or there were times when we arrived on scene in their districts before they arrived, and we knocked down the fire before they arrived.

    Were we doing their work for them?

    The 4 volunteer departments in the northern part of my volunteer parish respond together on structural calls, and it's not uncommon for them to arrive first in somebody else's district, and begin operations before the home department arrives.

    Are they doing the work for that other department?
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    So not only is your logic base pathetic, you are boring too. Imagine that. Black and white, right or wrong, no shades of gray, no wiggle room. No wonder it is so dam(n) easy for you to write of people and things. It isn't anything more than you simply don't care becaue your convoluted thought process won't allow you to.

    Either the building is safe to enter or not safe to enter. I either have enough resources to make entry or I don't. I either have the proper water supply or I don't. It's really not that complicated.

    I refuse to let crews enter when I think it "might" be safe, or they "might" have the right training or right experience. We are talking about the lives of the members, and either I have the resources, training, experience and command structure to support the operation or I don't. There is no "might" or "maybe".

    As far as victims in a structure, I will use my training and experience, but I will come up with a conclusion weather the victims are viable or not. I will not send crews in on a "maybe".



    Oh it is. Your way of thinking is pure poison and will destroy the image of the fire service.

    I really doubt that I have the influence to destroy any part of the fire service.

    But thanks for the compliment.


    33 years in the fire service, all spent on AGGRESSIVE, INTERIOR FIRE ATTACK AND SEARCH fire departments, not one serious injury that required an overnight hospital stay. WAIT!! How can that be? We should all be dead...RIGHT LA? RIGHT? You see your stupid Black and White rationalizations allow for no use of leadership skills. You simply say "It is on fire, wait for AMA to arrive." BRILLIANT strategic plan.

    Don't really care about your experiences.

    The injury numbers speak for themselves, especially as fires are declining.

    Fires are hotter and burning faster. Buildings are becoming unstable and coming down sooner. And victims are dying much sooner in fires. The fact is the fires that we are responding to are more dangerous to firefighters, and it's getting worse and not better.



    Like saving lives? Like saving their home and possesions when you arrive at a fire in one or 2 rooms? Keep making excuses, so far it seems to be what you are best at.

    When there is sufficient manpower, both myself and the department will go interior. However we define that as a two man attack line, and a staffed backup line either on the ground or going on the ground with a dedicated exterior IC. To us, that makes for a safe operation for the members.

    When that is in play, we have no issues going interior for property. We will conduct an exterior/transitional attack until those resources arrive, then we will, conditions permitting, go interior.
    Property is simply not worth operating shorthanded interior with the accompanying the risk of significant injury.

    And by the way, those are the OSHA regulations as well.

    I have already discussed that we will deviate from that policy for viable lives, or structures that based on exterior indicators, have a high probability of current occupancy.



    With your core philosophy it surprises me your vfd has any members at all.

    Our core philosophy is no different than yours.

    Difference is that our members are the life safety priority, and we will not risk them unless there are resources on-scene to support those risks.


    WOWSER, you needed most of the vfd to handle a car fire? Dang now that is impressive.

    When we average a response of 6-7, yes, it takes a full response to handle most incidents.

    Excuses to make you feel better. Nothing more.

    No, it's the history of fires in that part of the district.

    We can't change burn time.



    Well personally, I am a little bit yeah. On one hand, you're supposed to be a "fire department," but you can't conduct operations until a real fire department shows up. So yeah, it bothers me a little. On the other hand, I'm thankful at least someone in Louisiana is willing to show up and do the hard work that you refuse to do.

    Can't generally conduct INTERIOR operations safely until AMA shows up. Yes.


    The pathetic part is you are okay with them doing the heavy lifting and taking the risks for YOUR vfd's area.

    They offered.

    In fact, they offered so that they could get more fire time.

    Right now they do the bulk of our interior operations. And likely will for at least the next year, and it could be longer. We would prefer that to not be the case, but unless things change in terms of recruitment, they will be providing much of our manpower.

    They don't have an issue with it.




    The truth is simply this, YES, there are times we can't change the outcome and people will die. The difference is a firefighter is not so cavalier about it and would never say things like "People die, get over it." Jesus man, don't you have one shred of human compassion or decency? How about you tell your board and citizens that little gem...How about you tell one of your citizens that is unfortunate enough to lose a family member that...You see when you put it in that context you come across as a completely insensitive3 bastard that has no business being involved in the fire service.

    Cold? probably, but that is the reality.

    Looking at a situation and evaluating the best actions that will protect my members and may change the outcome has nothing to do with compassion and decency. It has to do with decisions that will allow my members to go home after every incident. if that's cold, so be it.


    From what you've posted you have little to support your opinion.

    I guess it really doesn't matter to me who is the toughest and bravest.

    More excuses...your best skill.

    Excuses? Maybe. I call them the tings that will keep us from taking excessive or unjustified risks.


    Possible. But unlikely.

    Oh? And how do you know that?

    Training. Experience. See "people die in fires" above.


    The northern area? You mean where those 2 stations that have no staffing are located? The sham houses for the phony rating?

    We play by the same rules that every other department in the state plays by.


    You don't care seems to be your default answer. You don't care about people dying, you don't care about homes and businesses burning down, you don't care about not having the balls to tell the citizens and the baord the truth about how unprotected they are, you don't care about stories of other FDs with far less than you have doing far more. You really are a sad little man...

    I care about doing my primary job, which is keeping my people unhurt and able to go to work after the incident.

    So you've wasted money, wasted even more money, and then called someone in to do the actual work for you.

    Those are your words, not mine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Nope... and Nope.
    I'm pretty sure it would just be embarrassing if I kicked your can around the block again with your excuses, so when you post something you haven't posted before (highly unlikely) or when you can come up with better answers than "I don't care" and "Nope," we can dance again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NumNutz
    So you've wasted money, wasted even more money, and then called someone in to do the actual work for you.

    Those are your words, not mine.
    Actually, super genius, if you could, after 9+ years, figure out how to use the damn quote function, you would realize those are actually MY words.

    And a pretty accurate assessment of the situation from the details YOU have posted here.
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    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Nope... and Nope.

    It seems the only one you aren't denying is calling someone else in to do the work for you.

    So let's take my previous VFD ....

    There were many times that our AMA arrived on-scene prior to us, primarily due to proximity and knocked down the fire before we arrived.

    Were they doing the work for us in those cases?

    Or there were times when we arrived on scene in their districts before they arrived, and we knocked down the fire before they arrived.

    Were we doing their work for them?

    The 4 volunteer departments in the northern part of my volunteer parish respond together on structural calls, and it's not uncommon for them to arrive first in somebody else's district, and begin operations before the home department arrives.

    Are they doing the work for that other department?
    La, you have been involved in some very whacky districts. If Mutual Aid is arriving prior to "home" units due to proximity to the scene.....that area should be the mutual aid's territory and not yours. How the hell would it make any sense that mutual aid is closer to someone else's "home" district?

    Ya, I know the answer. **** poor planning and good ole boys clubs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    La, you have been involved in some very whacky districts. If Mutual Aid is arriving prior to "home" units due to proximity to the scene.....that area should be the mutual aid's territory and not yours. How the hell would it make any sense that mutual aid is closer to someone else's "home" district?

    Ya, I know the answer. **** poor planning and good ole boys clubs.
    Actually it had to do with how the towns were laid out in the early 1900s.

    Development occurred in areas that were not developed at all until the very late 80's and early 90's. This area just so happened to be on the border with the next community over and less than 2 miles from their station. It was about 5 miles from our station. There was thought about putting a station in but the development was 100% commercial - retail, hotels and offices - with no residential development.

    On the flip side, the college fire department that ran with my previous VFD was located on the border of the same town, and would frequently beat the home department to the western edge of the community.
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    Technically Chenzo, I believe NumNutz should have a b and an s in it......b and s.....BS! I crack my self up sometimes.
    Last edited by conrad427; 07-10-2013 at 04:24 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Nope... and Nope.

    It seems the only one you aren't denying is calling someone else in to do the work for you.

    So let's take my previous VFD ....

    There were many times that our AMA arrived on-scene prior to us, primarily due to proximity and knocked down the fire before we arrived.

    Were they doing the work for us in those cases?

    Or there were times when we arrived on scene in their districts before they arrived, and we knocked down the fire before they arrived.

    Were we doing their work for them?

    The 4 volunteer departments in the northern part of my volunteer parish respond together on structural calls, and it's not uncommon for them to arrive first in somebody else's district, and begin operations before the home department arrives.

    Are they doing the work for that other department?
    Let me assume something here, I know that can lead to trouble but just play along okay?

    In the situations you are talking about above where the AMA arrived before you and initiated fire attack, or you arrived before them and initiated fire attack, I would assume BOTH FDs were capable of doing interior fire attack and search. The difference in your current situation is 99 44/100% of the time your vfd is NOT capable of doing it so your AMA FD isn't arriving first and intitating attack, you arrive first, hang around, spray water in the windows, and wait for them to take the risks and do the heavy lifting. Hardly comparable and further proof of your delusional way of thinking.

    Nice try, but as usual, no points will be awarded.
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    LA, the next time you're out fundraising, please remind the people paying your bills that you don't care about them.

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    Trying to reason with you know who -is like trying to explain to a patient in an insane asylum that he shouldn't be eating his own feces. He has his own reality and in his mind he is eating prime rib. After a while it just becomes an exercise in futility.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToDaRoof View Post
    LA, the next time you're out fundraising, please remind the people paying your bills that you don't care about them.
    There is a major difference between not caring for them, as you phrase it, and understanding the reality of the current situation, and not be able to change it.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    For a guy who claims to be college educated it isn't only sad, but hysterical, that you can't figure out the quote function.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    So not only is your logic base pathetic, you are boring too. Imagine that. Black and white, right or wrong, no shades of gray, no wiggle room. No wonder it is so dam(n) easy for you to write of people and things. It isn't anything more than you simply don't care becaue your convoluted thought process won't allow you to.

    Either the building is safe to enter or not safe to enter. I either have enough resources to make entry or I don't. I either have the proper water supply or I don't. It's really not that complicated.

    I refuse to let crews enter when I think it "might" be safe, or they "might" have the right training or right experience. We are talking about the lives of the members, and either I have the resources, training, experience and command structure to support the operation or I don't. There is no "might" or "maybe".

    As far as victims in a structure, I will use my training and experience, but I will come up with a conclusion weather the victims are viable or not. I will not send crews in on a "maybe".



    Oh it is. Your way of thinking is pure poison and will destroy the image of the fire service.

    I really doubt that I have the influence to destroy any part of the fire service.

    But thanks for the compliment.


    It seems to be working in your little corner of the world.

    33 years in the fire service, all spent on AGGRESSIVE, INTERIOR FIRE ATTACK AND SEARCH fire departments, not one serious injury that required an overnight hospital stay. WAIT!! How can that be? We should all be dead...RIGHT LA? RIGHT? You see your stupid Black and White rationalizations allow for no use of leadership skills. You simply say "It is on fire, wait for AMA to arrive." BRILLIANT strategic plan.

    Don't really care about your experiences.

    The injury numbers speak for themselves, especially as fires are declining.

    Fires are hotter and burning faster. Buildings are becoming unstable and coming down sooner. And victims are dying much sooner in fires. The fact is the fires that we are responding to are more dangerous to firefighters, and it's getting worse and not better.


    Golly, then why aren't the numbers in my area skyrocketing like you say they should be? Rapid response, aggressive tactics, when conditions allow. We wait for no one, we do the job.

    Your black and white idiocy fails to take into account your very own assessment of your area. You have stated repeatedly that you have VERY FEW newer truss built homes. If that is the case why are they coming down faster? Oh that's right, they AREN'T, because they aren't light weight construction at all. Golly, I love using your very own words to make you look like a buffoon.


    Like saving lives? Like saving their home and possesions when you arrive at a fire in one or 2 rooms? Keep making excuses, so far it seems to be what you are best at.

    When there is sufficient manpower, both myself and the department will go interior. However we define that as a two man attack line, and a staffed backup line either on the ground or going on the ground with a dedicated exterior IC. To us, that makes for a safe operation for the members.

    When that is in play, we have no issues going interior for property. We will conduct an exterior/transitional attack until those resources arrive, then we will, conditions permitting, go interior.
    Property is simply not worth operating shorthanded interior with the accompanying the risk of significant injury.

    And by the way, those are the OSHA regulations as well.

    I have already discussed that we will deviate from that policy for viable lives, or structures that based on exterior indicators, have a high probability of current occupancy.


    We had ALL of that in Chenzo's operation. Funny thing they saved the house, were thanked by a grateful home owner, and didn't have to make a single excuse for pathetic performance.

    Pssssst...No one was injured either.


    With your core philosophy it surprises me your vfd has any members at all.

    Our core philosophy is no different than yours.

    Difference is that our members are the life safety priority, and we will not risk them unless there are resources on-scene to support those risks.


    Nonsense and you are delusional if you believe for one second your core philosophy is anything like anyone elses on here. Your very admission of your beliefs prove you wrong. I would kindly ask you not to even attempt to put your vfd on the same level as either of mine on any topic.

    WOWSER, you needed most of the vfd to handle a car fire? Dang now that is impressive.

    When we average a response of 6-7, yes, it takes a full response to handle most incidents.

    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! For a car fire? Oh my God. It is no wonder at all that you can't begin to handle a structure fire if it takes the entire vfd to handle a car fire. But I'll bet the IC looked good standing off with his 2 radios. Was the AMA FD en route?

    Excuses to make you feel better. Nothing more.

    No, it's the history of fires in that part of the district.

    We can't change burn time.


    But if the phony stations that have no volunteers actually had people you could reduce response time. But then again yu would have to tell the truth about the pathetic mess you find yourself in.

    Well personally, I am a little bit yeah. On one hand, you're supposed to be a "fire department," but you can't conduct operations until a real fire department shows up. So yeah, it bothers me a little. On the other hand, I'm thankful at least someone in Louisiana is willing to show up and do the hard work that you refuse to do.

    Can't generally conduct INTERIOR operations safely until AMA shows up. Yes.

    The pathetic part is you are okay with them doing the heavy lifting and taking the risks for YOUR vfd's area.

    They offered.

    In fact, they offered so that they could get more fire time.

    Right now they do the bulk of our interior operations. And likely will for at least the next year, and it could be longer. We would prefer that to not be the case, but unless things change in terms of recruitment, they will be providing much of our manpower.

    They don't have an issue with it.


    Of course they offered, they are ooking to see how many responses they will make over there in a year or so and then they will move to take you over and take the tax revenue that is being essentially wasted now. Mark my word Bobby, it is coming.


    The truth is simply this, YES, there are times we can't change the outcome and people will die. The difference is a firefighter is not so cavalier about it and would never say things like "People die, get over it." Jesus man, don't you have one shred of human compassion or decency? How about you tell your board and citizens that little gem...How about you tell one of your citizens that is unfortunate enough to lose a family member that...You see when you put it in that context you come across as a completely insensitive3 bastard that has no business being involved in the fire service.

    Cold? probably, but that is the reality.

    It is reality but the way you say it is almost gleeful in your desire to cover your own pathetic azz.

    Looking at a situation and evaluating the best actions that will protect my members and may change the outcome has nothing to do with compassion and decency. It has to do with decisions that will allow my members to go home after every incident. if that's cold, so be it.


    In the cab of the truck "Okay, boys, you stand on the left side of the building on the lawn, you guys stand on the right side on the lawn. But don't get too close the house is on fire."

    From what you've posted you have little to support your opinion.

    I guess it really doesn't matter to me who is the toughest and bravest.

    Um, duh? Thank you Mr Obvious. I don't care, or it doesn't matter, or get over it. Great mantras for the fire service.

    More excuses...your best skill.

    Excuses? Maybe. I call them the tings that will keep us from taking excessive or unjustified risks.

    And when you have nothing else you return to the everyone else actually doing the job is a suicidal maniac rushing into buildings on fire. Funny how you have no trouble sending the AMA guys inside places YOU won't do more than a quick "duck in and peak' to.

    Possible. But unlikely.

    Oh? And how do you know that?

    Training. Experience. See "people die in fires" above.

    Well, the truth is the odds of people dying inside a building on fire go up algerbraically when you refuse to enter and save them when conditions allow.

    The northern area? You mean where those 2 stations that have no staffing are located? The sham houses for the phony rating?

    We play by the same rules that every other department in the state plays by.

    So if everyone is a sham that doesn't tell their citizens and board the truth that is okay? Your absolutely pathetic in you rationalizing your sham operation.

    You don't care seems to be your default answer. You don't care about people dying, you don't care about homes and businesses burning down, you don't care about not having the balls to tell the citizens and the baord the truth about how unprotected they are, you don't care about stories of other FDs with far less than you have doing far more. You really are a sad little man...

    I care about doing my primary job, which is keeping my people unhurt and able to go to work after the incident.

    Bla blah blah...you really should go back to handing out coloring books and deluding yourself into believing it is as important as actually saving lives and property.

    So you've wasted money, wasted even more money, and then called someone in to do the actual work for you.

    Those are your words, not mine.

    Why would anyone expect you to tell the truth now?
    Tell the citizens and the board the truth...it will be far less painful than being exposed as a fraud.
    Last edited by FyredUp; 07-10-2013 at 10:02 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    There is a major difference between not caring for them, as you phrase it, and understanding the reality of the current situation, and not be able to change it.
    Not the way you have said it here. I bet your citizens would love to know your attitude about fire deaths is: "They happen, get over it."
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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    Trying to reason with you know who -is like trying to explain to a patient in an insane asylum that he shouldn't be eating his own feces. He has his own reality and in his mind he is eating prime rib. After a while it just becomes an exercise in futility.
    I'll mak e it very simple.

    A this point in time, most of the time, we do not have the resources or manpower to make a safe interior attack ( exterior IC, initial attack line, staffed backup line & pump operator). It has nothing to do with want. It has to do with the reality of the staffing.

    Because of that we generally cannot safely operate interior until the AMA engine arrives.

    It's all about the members going to work the next day.

    How complicated is that?
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  20. #545
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Not the way you have said it here. I bet your citizens would love to know your attitude about fire deaths is: "They happen, get over it."
    Most fire deaths the fire department can do nothing to change the outcome.

    They happen. That's the reality. And no, I won't lose any sleep over something that I had no chance to impact.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    Uhhmmm, from your own statements you've pretty much stated that you and your VFD in fact don't make "every effort to do just that".

    And exactly where do we not make every effort to operate interior whenever possible?

    That doesn't mean that we are able to operate interior every time, but certainly we make the effort, and when the trained and experienced manpower allows us to do so, as well as the fire conditions, we do operate interior.

    Yes, there are times that we don't, and it's not because we are not making the effort, but it's simply because we do not have either the quantity or quality of interior members on scene to operate safely.

    making arrangements for AMA to supplement our limited interior manpower is making an effort. Increasing live fire training is making an effort. Increasing recruiting operations for both interior and exterior members in making an effort.

    So exactly where are we not making efforts?
    Yes, you may be making some efforts, but your claim was "every effort". Part of "every effort" would include not making excuse after excuse for why you can't do this or can't do that.

    And that's been acknowledged and addressed multiple times.

    But yet there are those that still seem to have the expectations that every department should be able to operate interior all of the time.
    No, the expectation is that any organization billing themselves as a FIRE DEPARTMENT is prepared to do so.

    NO, they absolutely aren't! The fact that you believe that and would make that claim shows that your buffoonery knows no limits!

    If the community defines them as such, they are a fire department, or at least are a fire department in the eyes of the community.
    However, that doesn't rule out the possibility that the "fire department" has been presenting a facade to the community. Just because they think they have one, doesn't mean they actually have a FIRE DEPARTMENT.


    And in the end, that is really all that matters.
    Until they have a fire and need an actual FIRE DEPARTMENT.

    What actually really matters in the end, is that the incident is properly mitigated and injuries & property damage are minimized as much as possible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Most fire deaths the fire department can do nothing to change the outcome.

    They happen. That's the reality. And no, I won't lose any sleep over something that I had no chance to impact.
    It isn't the reality that people die and sometimes we can't do anything about it. What is so appalling is your azzhole, cavalier, whoop dee freaking doo, who gives a dam(n) somebody died in a fire it ain't my problem time for bed MOTHER F***ING pathetic disgusting inhumane why the hell are you even a firefighter attitude. There is no excuse for it. We all know people die, but none of us are yawning and acting like it doesn't mean a God Damned thing because none of your VFD members got a boo boo. I really wish some of your citizens would read the absolute horse schitt you post here. Because I think whatever stature you believe you have would be gone in a blink of an eye. Guys like you pretending to be firefighters just make me want to puke up my entire intestinal tract.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I'll mak e it very simple.

    A this point in time, most of the time, we do not have the resources or manpower to make a safe interior attack ( exterior IC, initial attack line, staffed backup line & pump operator). It has nothing to do with want. It has to do with the reality of the staffing.

    Because of that we generally cannot safely operate interior until the AMA engine arrives.

    It's all about the members going to work the next day.

    How complicated is that?
    Apparently it is so complicated you prefer to perpetrate the sham of actually having a fire department instead of going to the board and the citizens and saying "Folks, until the AMA FD arrives we simply can't guarantee we can do a damn thing to positively affect the outcome of your house fire. In fact if they are busy odds are if you are inside you will die and your house and everything in it will be destroyed. Now comes the hard part...What do you as a board and citizens of this community want us to do?"

    You are right, it isn't really that complicated.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
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  24. #549
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    It's all about the members going to work the next day.
    This made me think of something that you said some time ago: that if your family was trapped in a house fire, you "wouldn't let the firefighters do in if you determined it was too dangerous." Why are you more worried about the guilt of a firefighter "possibly" getting hurt in a rescue attempt than living with the fact that you made a conscious choice to ignore their pleas for help?

    I've never seen a straight answer to something else you've been asked: why are you in the fire service?
    Last edited by BoxAlarm187; 07-10-2013 at 07:30 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    This made me think of something that you said some time ago: that if your family was trapped in a house fire, you "wouldn't let the firefighters do in if you determined it was too dangerous." Why are you more worried about the guilt of a firefighter "possibly" getting hurt in a rescue attempt than living with the fact that you made a conscious choice to ignore their pleas for help?

    Because firefighters should not be injured or killed doing the job. It's not complicated.

    It's not a part of the job.

    And I will not accepting seeing my brothers being hurt or injured to attempt to save my family.

    And I really like all this "plea for help" stuff when we all know the reality that 90% of the victims are overcome by smoke, with the vast majority being overcome very early in the incident.


    I've never seen a straight answer to something else you've been asked: why are you in the fire service?

    To help people. That being said, that does not, or should not include death or serious injury to the rescuers.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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