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Thread: Lt. Ray hits another home run!

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I would give MY all.

    The key word there is MY.

    It is MY responsibility to save MY family and potentially die.

    It is not the responsibility of the members of the fire department who are responsible for their own families to save mine. And as such I do not have the expectation that any firefighter should take risks that will jeopardize that responsibility to their families.
    Because you have said repeatedly you would stop firefighters from entering in an attempt to save your family, how will you do that AND go inside to save them? Funny how your very own words keep coming back to haunt you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Because you have said repeatedly you would stop firefighters from entering in an attempt to save your family, how will you do that AND go inside to save them? Funny how your very own words keep coming back to haunt you.
    As I have stated, I have a double-wide in which there will likely be heavy involvement by the time the fire department arrives.

    Psssssssssssssssst .. There is nobody at home while I am at work.

    So if a fire occurs, it's highly likely that I will be at home with my wife.

    The simple fact is that if we, or if my wife is home alone, she has not self-extricated by the time the fire department arrives, we, or she is likely dead, and the structure would be far too hazardous to enter, especially given the very limited likelihood of survival.

    Again, bottom line is every member's family deserves to have their husband and father come home after every call and every shift. No civilian is worth our lives.

    Funny on how you can't seem to let go of the fact that if we have a fire in my home. the building construction pretty clearly states the occupant(s) will be dead.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    As I have stated, I have a double-wide in which there will likely be heavy involvement by the time the fire department arrives.

    Psssssssssssssssst .. There is nobody at home while I am at work.

    So if a fire occurs, it's highly likely that I will be at home with my wife.

    The simple fact is that if we, or if my wife is home alone, she has not self-extricated by the time the fire department arrives, we, or she is likely dead, and the structure would be far too hazardous to enter, especially given the very limited likelihood of survival.

    Again, bottom line is every member's family deserves to have their husband and father come home after every call and every shift. No civilian is worth our lives.

    Funny on how you can't seem to let go of the fact that if we have a fire in my home. the building construction pretty clearly states the occupant(s) will be dead.
    Funny how YOU being the "Great and Powerful Oz" of Pub Ed doesn't have your tinderbox of a house sprinklered. It really isn't that expensive to do and will drop the cost of your home owner's insurance substantially. Further it would add greatly to the survivability of anyone in the home should a fire occur.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    The simple fact is that if we, or if my wife is home alone, she has not self-extricated by the time the fire department arrives, we, or she is likely dead, and the structure would be far too hazardous to enter, especially given the very limited likelihood of survival.

    Again, bottom line is every member's family deserves to have their husband and father come home after every call and every shift. No civilian is worth our lives.

    Funny on how you can't seem to let go of the fact that if we have a fire in my home. the building construction pretty clearly states the occupant(s) will be dead.
    Do we strive to come home every shift? Absolutely. But we also signed up knowing full well that we will put our lives up as collateral for other people, and our families understand that. Something you're not willing to do. We haven't built the reputation our industry has today by telling the citizens "Sorry about your luck!" Nobody wants to get hurt or killed on the job, but sometimes it comes with the territory, whether you like it or not. Caring for your fellow man means risking it all, sometimes even your life, to help them. That's what WE are about. Don't like it? Go work at Staples and volunteer for a soup kitchen.

    Oh yeah... We made a save in a well involved trailer 2 years ago in an area of our first due with a 10 minute response time, your argument is invalid.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Funny how YOU being the "Great and Powerful Oz" of Pub Ed doesn't have your tinderbox of a house sprinklered. It really isn't that expensive to do and will drop the cost of your home owner's insurance substantially. Further it would add greatly to the survivability of anyone in the home should a fire occur.
    My previous home in VT did have a sprinkler system.

    As far as sprinklering a double-wide trailer, I have never seen it delivered as such, and have never seen it done after delivery.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 07-11-2013 at 12:58 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    The point is LA is supposedly on the clock at his Pub Ed job during the day yet almost everyday he is in and out of here multiple times. If he is so busy doing Pub Ed, and training, and all the other stuff he says he does, how can he have so much time to be here?
    Not that it matters ......... 50% of my job is at the desk.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Funny on how you can't seem to let go of the fact that if we have a fire in my home. the building construction pretty clearly states the occupant(s) will be dead.
    I find it odd that you somehow think its funny.

    Is your home that full of fuel? Are you hoarders? I understand mobile home construction and they do go up quite fast when they are fuel loaded with crap hanging from the walls, clothing strewn everywhere and things like that. But the paneling and ceilings are designed to not burn fast.
    A normal person would hold out hope that a fire in their home would not consume everything prior to FD's arrival. That maybe someone closed a door or two and that can help slow progression down if the rooms are not stacked floor to ceiling with possessions.

    You are acting like every mobile home fire is going to be a carbon copy of the last one you had, and that thinking is flawed. Makes me think that you've given up before the apparatus doors are even opened.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToDaRoof View Post
    Do we strive to come home every shift? Absolutely. But we also signed up knowing full well that we will put our lives up as collateral for other people, and our families understand that. Something you're not willing to do. We haven't built the reputation our industry has today by telling the citizens "Sorry about your luck!" Nobody wants to get hurt or killed on the job, but sometimes it comes with the territory, whether you like it or not. Caring for your fellow man means risking it all, sometimes even your life, to help them. That's what WE are about. Don't like it? Go work at Staples and volunteer for a soup kitchen.

    Oh yeah... We made a save in a well involved trailer 2 years ago in an area of our first due with a 10 minute response time, your argument is invalid.
    Nothing new in your post.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Nothing new in your post.
    Apparently it has to be repeated, since you still don't get it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ToDaRoof View Post
    Apparently it has to be repeated, since you still don't get it!
    I get it. And when I was younger, I used to believe it.

    But I guess as I have grown older, my perspectives and my beliefs have changed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I get it. And when I was younger, I used to believe it.

    But I guess as I have grown older, my perspectives and my beliefs have changed.
    It's sad what a chronic case of recto-cranial inversion does to a person....
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowball View Post
    I find it odd that you somehow think its funny.

    Is your home that full of fuel? Are you hoarders? I understand mobile home construction and they do go up quite fast when they are fuel loaded with crap hanging from the walls, clothing strewn everywhere and things like that. But the paneling and ceilings are designed to not burn fast.
    A normal person would hold out hope that a fire in their home would not consume everything prior to FD's arrival. That maybe someone closed a door or two and that can help slow progression down if the rooms are not stacked floor to ceiling with possessions.

    You are acting like every mobile home fire is going to be a carbon copy of the last one you had, and that thinking is flawed. Makes me think that you've given up before the apparatus doors are even opened.
    I just think it's funny that there are one or two posters who are so concerned about what I will do if there is a fire in my home.

    As far as my home, I would say the fire load is normal, or slightly less than normal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    It's sad what a chronic case of recto-cranial inversion does to a person....
    Is that another of your psychological terms Dr. Gonzo?
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I just think it's funny that there are one or two posters who are so concerned about what I will do if there is a fire in my home.
    That's because it's absolutely, sub-human, bottom of the sewer, scrape the schitt off my boot DISGUSTING that you're so willing to say "People die in fires, get over." about your own family.

    I love my wife and daughter, I would do anything, ANYTHING to make sure they had a better surviving chance, even if that meant sacrificing myself so my wife and daughter could get out, if that meant sacrificing myself so my daughter could live her life to the fullest.

    The fact that you're more than willing to stop FIREFIGHTERS, who show up in FIRETRUCKS, and have training in FIREFIGHTING, and pull FIRE HOSE to put out a fire, from saving your own family is just absolutely appalling.

    All of your posts here just go to show what an egotistical, self-centered, narcissistic pile of human schitt you are.

    Yeah, I resorted to name calling. What are you gonna do? Take my birthday away? It's not name calling if it's the truth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I just think it's funny that there are one or two posters who are so concerned about what I will do if there is a fire in my home.

    As far as my home, I would say the fire load is normal, or slightly less than normal.
    You should get a warm fuzzy feeling that these guys are concerned with your home. That is the job coming out in them. We should show concern for everyone. If you were in trouble, there's not a single person that I can think of on these boards that wouldn't come to your aid. But on the other hand, some of your responses on this forum would lead people to believe that you, fearing your own safety, would not place yourself in harms way to aid one of them. I certainly would come to your aid, doesn't matter who you are, or my personal opinion of you. That's just the humane thing to do.

    As far as your home, you're acknowledging that no two mobile home fires burn the same, right? And there's always hope that unless fire is blowing out of every opening, that someone, even, no, especially a loved one could have made it to a place where the rate of burn is slower than what you're looking at from your 2D perspective?
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowball View Post
    You should get a warm fuzzy feeling that these guys are concerned with your home. That is the job coming out in them. We should show concern for everyone. If you were in trouble, there's not a single person that I can think of on these boards that wouldn't come to your aid. But on the other hand, some of your responses on this forum would lead people to believe that you, fearing your own safety, would not place yourself in harms way to aid one of them. I certainly would come to your aid, doesn't matter who you are, or my personal opinion of you. That's just the humane thing to do.

    As far as your home, you're acknowledging that no two mobile home fires burn the same, right? And there's always hope that unless fire is blowing out of every opening, that someone, even, no, especially a loved one could have made it to a place where the rate of burn is slower than what you're looking at from your 2D perspective?
    The concern is heartwarming.

    And yes, it's true that no fire burns exactly the same. variables such as fuel load, fuel location and ventilation all play a role in making each fire different, even in similar structures.

    That being said we have had 2 double-wide fires in my combo district in the last 2 years, with a similar layout and similar fuel load. Both were fires that were very well-involved on arrival.

    Does that mean that should my home catch fire it would burn the same way? Maybe. Maybe not. But I would be willing to bet that it would.

    And yes, a closed v. open door could change the outcome.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    That's because it's absolutely, sub-human, bottom of the sewer, scrape the schitt off my boot DISGUSTING that you're so willing to say "People die in fires, get over." about your own family.

    I love my wife and daughter, I would do anything, ANYTHING to make sure they had a better surviving chance, even if that meant sacrificing myself so my wife and daughter could get out, if that meant sacrificing myself so my daughter could live her life to the fullest.

    The fact that you're more than willing to stop FIREFIGHTERS, who show up in FIRETRUCKS, and have training in FIREFIGHTING, and pull FIRE HOSE to put out a fire, from saving your own family is just absolutely appalling.

    All of your posts here just go to show what an egotistical, self-centered, narcissistic pile of human schitt you are.

    Yeah, I resorted to name calling. What are you gonna do? Take my birthday away? It's not name calling if it's the truth.
    And nowhere did I say that I would let them die. I did say that performing the rescue would be MY responsibility before the fire department arrived.

    But I clearly would try to disawaid the incident commander from making entry and risking members lives if clearly there was little chance of survival. Yes, my wife is the most important person in my life, but those members are also the most important person in their wives and children's lives, and placing them in danger if there is significant risk is not the right thing to do.

    If the chances are minimal and there is a significant risk of injury, I am not selfish enough to put my needs ahead of what is right for them, and more importantly, for their families.


    This isn't about me, or what I would do, but it is about what is right for the members, and more importantly, the families of the members of my combo department
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And nowhere did I say that I would let them die. I did say that performing the rescue would be MY responsibility before the fire department arrived.

    I don't believe you. You're far to self-centered to risk hurting yourself for someone else.

    But I clearly would try to disawaid the incident commander from making entry and risking members lives if clearly there was little chance of survival.

    #1, it's not your call, you're not the IC, and any civilian (which you would be at this point, because you aren't responding) who tried to interfere with what my crews were doing would be having a nice little chat with the local LEO's. #2, I would hope that the incident commander would punch you in the face for being such a cold hearted bastard. For attempting to stop them from making a rescue when you don't even 100% know the situation. Twist and contort it however you want, that's what you've repeatedly stated here. After all, your world is black and white.

    Yes, my wife is the most important person in my life, but those members are also the most important person in their wives and children's lives, and placing them in danger if there is significant risk is not the right thing to do.

    I don't believe in a high stress situation such as YOUR OWN house being on fire, you're in the right frame of mind to make that judgement, to make the go or no-go judgement. Hell, even in your right frame of mind I don't think you're the one to make that call, but that's another argument.


    If the chances are minimal and there is a significant risk of injury, I am not selfish enough to put my needs ahead of what is right for them, and more importantly, for their families.

    It has nothing to do with being selfish you dense muther****er. Unless you saw that your wife and kids were dead on the floor, unless there's nothing of your home left, HOW DO YOU POSITIVELY KNOW that they aren't alive and trapped? Oh, that's right, because you live in a black and white pretend world.

    This isn't about me, or what I would do, but it is about what is right for the members, and more importantly, the families of the members of my combo department.
    So, essentially what you're saying, is that the members families are more important than your own family....

    You're seriously one twisted individual. I really think you should seek medical attention.
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Funny how YOU being the "Great and Powerful Oz" of Pub Ed doesn't have your tinderbox of a house sprinklered. It really isn't that expensive to do and will drop the cost of your home owner's insurance substantially. Further it would add greatly to the survivability of anyone in the home should a fire occur.
    Sounds like he should get the entire friggin county sprinklered!
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    I dunno about the rest of you guys, but the only times a citizen has ever tried to stop our crew from going in, something felonious has been going on...
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And nowhere did I say that I would let them die. I did say that performing the rescue would be MY responsibility before the fire department arrived.

    But I clearly would try to disawaid the incident commander from making entry and risking members lives if clearly there was little chance of survival. Yes, my wife is the most important person in my life, but those members are also the most important person in their wives and children's lives, and placing them in danger if there is significant risk is not the right thing to do.

    If the chances are minimal and there is a significant risk of injury, I am not selfish enough to put my needs ahead of what is right for them, and more importantly, for their families.


    This isn't about me, or what I would do, but it is about what is right for the members, and more importantly, the families of the members of my combo department
    I don't believe this for a minute. If you had a family member trapped in a fire, you'd be screaming bloody murder and begging for help just like every other hysterical family member that any of us have ever seen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    So, essentially what you're saying, is that the members families are more important than your own family....

    You're seriously one twisted individual. I really think you should seek medical attention.
    In a situation where the fire behavior indicates that survival is unlikely, yes.

    Risking members for victims that are likely no longer viable is not acting in a responsible manner to those families.

    Risk a lot to save a lot. If the fire conditions indicate a low chance of survival, you are risking a lot for a little.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 07-11-2013 at 07:52 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by captnjak View Post
    I don't believe this for a minute. If you had a family member trapped in a fire, you'd be screaming bloody murder and begging for help just like every other hysterical family member that any of us have ever seen.
    No, actually I wouldn't.
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    It's amazing to me that every thread that goes over 20 pages includes an argument from the same idiot.


    To the original topic - Lt. McCormack is blessed with notariety. He is not really saying anything different than other traditional firefighters that still believe that life & property are still worth enough to do your job.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    In a situation where the fire behavior indicates that survival is unlikely, yes.

    Risking members for victims that are likely no longer viable is not acting in a responsible manner to those families.

    Risk a lot to save a lot. If the fire conditions indicate a low chance of survival, you are risking a lot for a little.
    With regards to you own family your entire post is absolute, undeniable, BULL SCHITT!
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