Like Tree379Likes

Thread: Lt. Ray hits another home run!

  1. #1
    Forum Member
    DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,584

    Default Lt. Ray hits another home run!

    From Fossilmedic @ Firegeezer.com via UrbanFirefighter.com

    Lieutenant Ray McCormack is a guy I respect and look up to. His recent post on the Urban Firefighter Magazine facebook page makes a great point.

    While culture is debated, not everyone within a culture follows the same norms. Some are cultural purists, some are cultural part timers, some are side liners and some culturally neutral. Then there are the zealots that display ADHPD about safety.

    You need to be a safety zealot and narcissist to display symptoms of the disorder. To web surfers, this disorder manifests itself in several common and visceral ways. The most common is to critique what most would think was a fairly safe fire scene photo until they spot someone not actively engaged in the action without their gloves on. Now, a firefighter near flames or a firefighter pulling a jagged piece of metal without gloves would be an obvious hazard, but to the ADHPD firefighter, the entire photo is condemned for the perceived sins of one.

    The offender doesn't have to be near the action, they just has to be in the photo because according to a ADHPD firefighter, if the photo is posted, it's open season. Even hunting seasons have rules, but the zealot doesn't respect rules when it comes to fire scene photo violators. Everyone in the photo must be punished for a single missing piece of PPE. Is omission all you see? If it is you are missing so much.

    Today's arm chair critic living in virtual anonymity demonizes those that allow the slightest infraction to pass. What brings on such loyalty to cause? It's not subject matter expertise. It is not experience. It is not informed debate. It is the need to be heard. It is the need to chastise with moral superiority. It is with rightious indignation that they let you know that they are correct and all others must conform.

    Well, for all those that feel the need to critique the one second in time flaw that filled their monitor or cell phone screen go right ahead, but just remember you're boring us. Fire scene photos go up by the hundreds daily on the Internet. Critiquing them for best in "Equipment Omission" does not solve safety issues. It makes you look petty.

    There are web sites that thrive on such criticism, where viewers are encouraged to support the tear down process. Take your criticism there; find others who share your zeal for being the first to spot a flaw and being the safest firefighter on the Internet, says you. Such pompousness is displayed constantly in the comment sections of photos and videos.

    Do some photos cry out for commentary? Yes, they do and discussion is fine when it comes to tactics, but equipment omission is getting old. Maybe you could have someone take a photo of your perfect fireground.

    On the recent West Texas deaths, one editor lamented that it would soon become the Charlston fire of the volunteer world. Could it happen in Critic's Corner? You bet! These incidents could happen anywhere.

    We are a culture that believes finding fault along with corrective solutions will bring less fault and while I agree, balanced study is vastly different than petty deconstruction. Try and enjoy fire scene photography and lay off the criticism a bit or the people who bring it to us will get tired of providing us with such beauty and history.

    Keep Fire in Your Life

    http://firegeezer.com/2013/06/14/ray...aphy-disorder/
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  2. #2
    Forum Member
    Chenzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Rural WI
    Posts
    1,231

    Default

    Today's arm chair critic living in virtual anonymity demonizes those that allow the slightest infraction to pass. What brings on such loyalty to cause? It's not subject matter expertise. It is not experience. It is not informed debate. It is the need to be heard. It is the need to chastise with moral superiority. It is with rightious indignation that they let you know that they are correct and all others must conform.
    Hmmm....

    Another great piece by Ray McCormack.
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

  3. #3
    Forum Member
    FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    10,051

    Default

    I have to meet this guy. He definitely sounds like my kind of people!
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  4. #4
    Forum Member
    scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,232

    Default

    Awesome post.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  5. #5
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    206

    Default

    Great read. I'd be willing to bet that most of the armchair safety Nazis got close to making the team but were cut before the season started.

  6. #6
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,596

    Default

    More like a weak pop fly to just behind second base.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  7. #7
    Forum Member
    scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,232

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    More like a weak pop fly to just behind second base.
    A faux firefighter like yourself would believe that.

    The rest of us understand him completely.
    Chenzo and Miller337 like this.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  8. #8
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    866

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    More like a weak pop fly to just behind second base.
    Are you saying you support the practice of overanalyzing fireground photos, finding nitpicky deficiencies and then using that to tear eachother apart for all the world to see?

    Considering the amount of criticism you've received from guys sitting at their computers, I would think you would support the position taken in this piece.

    I would further suggest that we look at posts in firefighting forums with a similarly less hyper-critical outlook. Can any of us say we've never been guilty of this?

  9. #9
    Forum Member
    DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,584

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    More like a weak pop fly to just behind second base.
    Metaphorically speaking, the ball is a fire... the field a fireground

    If you were playing second base, you would say to yourself "I could back up and catch it, but running backwards might get me hurt. I should wait and see if any other fielder will try to get it".

    The ball would drop and and the field would burn up.

    If you were in center field, you could run in, but you would say to yourself "I could run in and catch it, but I might twist an ankle and get hurt. I should wait and see if any other fielder will try to get it".

    The ball would drop and and the field would burn up.

    The problem is... you coached the team, and they all think like you.

    The field burnt up, now we have no place to play. Nice going...

    By the way.. you suck at analogies...
    Last edited by DeputyChiefGonzo; 06-15-2013 at 12:23 AM.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  10. #10
    Forum Member
    Miller337's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    931

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    More like a weak pop fly to just behind second base.
    You really are an incredible idiot. You can't help yourself can you? I agree with Lt McCormacks piece but even while reading it I knew you would not, but you are intirely incapable of just keeping your mouth shut regardless of the situation, you just have to proclaim your dissatisfaction with anything you don't agree with rather than just doing something smart like not allowing yourself to become embroiled in yet another feud which will make this thread another LA battleground site. Even as a yardbreather with that lack of selfcontrol you are a danger to yourself and others.
    FyredUp and Chenzo like this.

  11. #11
    Forum Member
    FWDbuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Pee-Ayy!
    Posts
    7,401

    Default

    Once again the pubic hair spews his idiocy for the world to see and confirm for the 350,134th time that he is nothing but a pathetic, scared and yellow-spined coward to the eighth degree. As if we needed this confirmation again. Don't you guys know how hard it is to fasten the buckles on those 34 different ICS vests with structural gloves on? He's also angry because he sees no need for lawn ornaments to have structural gloves.
    Chenzo likes this.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  12. #12
    Forum Member
    snowball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Just North of South Central
    Posts
    2,740

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Once again the pubic hair spews his idiocy for the world to see and confirm for the 350,134th time that he is nothing but a pathetic, scared and yellow-spined coward to the eighth degree. As if we needed this confirmation again. Don't you guys know how hard it is to fasten the buckles on those 34 different ICS vests with structural gloves on? He's also angry because he sees no need for lawn ornaments to have structural gloves.
    Hey! Where you been hiding, sugarpants?
    IAFF

  13. #13
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    SW Missouri
    Posts
    1,154

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    More like a weak pop fly to just behind second base.
    I'm surprised that you even gave it that much credit. I figured you would call it a strike. Then again I'm not surprised. What worthless class did you take this week? I'm just asking now so we can get it out of the way and you don't have to wedge it in to your next 20 post.
    scfire86 and Chenzo like this.

  14. #14
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,596

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by captnjak View Post
    Are you saying you support the practice of overanalyzing fireground photos, finding nitpicky deficiencies and then using that to tear eachother apart for all the world to see?

    Considering the amount of criticism you've received from guys sitting at their computers, I would think you would support the position taken in this piece.

    I would further suggest that we look at posts in firefighting forums with a similarly less hyper-critical outlook. Can any of us say we've never been guilty of this?
    Given the choice between too much scrutiny and too little, I would prefer too much.

    I would prefer to see too many issues pointed out rather than too few.

    Yes, in a perfect world, the right amount of issues would be brought out, but this world ain't perfect.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  15. #15
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,596

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Miller337 View Post
    You really are an incredible idiot. You can't help yourself can you? I agree with Lt McCormacks piece but even while reading it I knew you would not, but you are intirely incapable of just keeping your mouth shut regardless of the situation, you just have to proclaim your dissatisfaction with anything you don't agree with rather than just doing something smart like not allowing yourself to become embroiled in yet another feud which will make this thread another LA battleground site. Even as a yardbreather with that lack of selfcontrol you are a danger to yourself and others.
    And there are others that don't display their satisfaction with everything that they read if they disagree with it?

    It seems like most of the posters here think that the LT is the best thing to happen to the world since sliced bread. I don't feel that way and feel that i have the responsibility to oppose him at most turns.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  16. #16
    Forum Member
    Miller337's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    931

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And there are others that don't display their satisfaction with everything that they read if they disagree with it?WHAT ? THAT IS NONSENSICAL.

    It seems like most of the posters here think that the LT is the best thing to happen to the world since sliced bread. I don't feel that way and feel that i have the responsibility to oppose him at most turns.
    You get right after it Don Quixote.

  17. #17
    Forum Member
    FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    10,051

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Given the choice between too much scrutiny and too little, I would prefer too much.

    Of course you would. The more time you spend "Scrutinizing" means the less time actually doing anything that may have a positive impact on the emergency.

    I would prefer to see too many issues pointed out rather than too few.

    Because that makes you one of the new uber safety zealots, and you are indeed a narcissist.

    Yes, in a perfect world, the right amount of issues would be brought out, but this world ain't perfect.

    You can't help yourself. Even when you haven't got an opinion you have to post you haven't got an opinion then you post the opinion you ddn't have anyways. If you were half as informed as you thought you were you might have a valid opinion, but since everything is so jaded by your screw everyone I am first attitude no once cares what you have to say anyways.
    You'll never change because you would starve without the attention.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  18. #18
    Forum Member
    DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,584

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And there are others that don't display their satisfaction with everything that they read if they disagree with it?

    It seems like most of the posters here think that the LT is the best thing to happen to the world since sliced bread. I don't feel that way and feel that i have the responsibility to oppose him at most turns.
    Lt. Ray McCormack is a well known fire service leader and author.

    You on the other hand....
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  19. #19
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    866

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Given the choice between too much scrutiny and too little, I would prefer too much.

    I would prefer to see too many issues pointed out rather than too few.

    Yes, in a perfect world, the right amount of issues would be brought out, but this world ain't perfect.
    I think you're missing the point. The piece didn't endorse too little scrutiny. It endorsed scrutiny where necessary. That's what he meant by "balanced study" being different than "petty deconstruction".

    It's not about how many issues are pointed out; it's about the relative importance of the issues that are brought out.
    slackjawedyokel and conrad427 like this.

  20. #20
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    SW Missouri
    Posts
    1,154

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    Lt. Ray McCormack is a well known fire service leader and author.

    You on the other hand....
    .....are a nobody.

  21. #21
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,596

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by captnjak View Post
    I think you're missing the point. The piece didn't endorse too little scrutiny. It endorsed scrutiny where necessary. That's what he meant by "balanced study" being different than "petty deconstruction".

    It's not about how many issues are pointed out; it's about the relative importance of the issues that are brought out.
    And that relative importance depends on the person and thier perspective on the situation.

    Do I agree that sometimes we may become too petty? Sure. But there are times that what you may think as petty may actually be, the somebody else, a fairly important point.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  22. #22
    Forum Member
    FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    10,051

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And that relative importance depends on the person and thier perspective on the situation.

    If you view the posts in response to your ramblings YOUR perspective and YOUR relative importance can't be measured it is so low.

    Do I agree that sometimes we may become too petty? Sure. But there are times that what you may think as petty may actually be, the somebody else, a fairly important point.

    Your bizarre need for attention makes you even post in topics just to say you won't post in that topic.
    You are an odd duck Bobby...
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  23. #23
    Forum Member
    ToDaRoof's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    The Old Dominion
    Posts
    174

    Default

    At least he finally admits to being an attention whore and a troll, albeit indirectly...

  24. #24
    MembersZone Subscriber
    tree68's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Jefferson County, NY USA
    Posts
    2,287

    Default

    Dave Statter has another name for the ADHPD folks. Keyboard incident commanders (KICs). They are quick to criticize a fire department's operations based on a single point of view, often video shot not by someone familiar with fire department operations, but by a "man on the street."

    And you see the same names over and over in the comment sections - usually ripping the responding department a new one for wrongs both seen and perceived. They didn't see anyone doing a 360, so it's "obvious" that one was never done. They didn't see anyone going interior, so it's "obvious" that this is a "surround and drown" fire department. And doesn't everyone have 4+2 and 25 people coming on their first alarm?
    Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

    Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

  25. #25
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    2,961

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    It seems like most of the posters here think that the LT is the best thing to happen to the world since sliced bread.
    No, but we do find his message and delivery refreshing in a world obsessed with political correctness and finding excuses to not do their job.

    I don't feel that way and feel that i have the responsibility to oppose him at most turns.
    That's fine, but you should really have something of substance to counter with. In most cases, you don't and it's very clear that you missed his point.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. The Quint hits the UK
    By SteveDude in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 10-13-2005, 04:37 PM
  2. I know this isn't a firefighter but it still hits home
    By Itsmy6 in forum Line of Duty: In Memory Of
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-06-2005, 01:02 AM
  3. LODD Hits Home
    By scfirewife41 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 06-01-2005, 09:20 AM
  4. Lutan1 hits the big 30!
    By NJFFSA16 in forum The Off Duty Forums
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 11-12-2002, 02:34 PM
  5. When fire hits home
    By ADSNWFLD in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 08-30-2001, 10:28 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register