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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    If I understand correctly -having a guy go down with a cardiac event is the lesser of two evils because workman's comp pays for it as opposed to coming out of the FDs budget? -Where do you think the $ for workman's comp comes from ? Maybe not directly from the FDs budget, but it comes from the taxpayers. And dang buddy, have you not figured out that some times people die from "cardiac events" ? -Oh heck I guess that doesn't matter either cause the LOD benefits don't come directly out of the FDs budget either.
    Never did I say that members should not be screened for cardiac issues, as that can be done through a simple question or set of medical history questions on the application regarding medical history. The department obviously has the right to exclude anyone who indicates that they may have specific conditions.

    If there is a question regarding fitness, it certainly should be the department's option to send him for physical or contact his physician regarding his condition which is exactly what my department did after my cardiac events, and the physician cleared me for continued duty as there was no permanent damage. When I applied to my VFD I informed them of my history and they also contacted my physician, who cleared me.

    As far as the cost of an event, the money in this case comes from the pool contributed by the contributing members to workman's comp.

    Again, I have no issues with any department CHOOSING to implement physicals or physical standards. MY VFD requires that any new member who is applying as an interior firefighter complete a physical test including a run, pushups, hose drag, dummy drag and axe striking station while in gear and SCBA (not on air). As of yet, my combo department does not have such a test for volunteer members.

    My is issue, and always will be, mandating such as they will have significant financial and manpower affects if required for all members - including exterior or driver-only - that will drastically affect fire protection in many small communities.
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    It's the perfect circular logic. You all should know it by now. It's cheaper to bury a firefighter one time than it is for any physical/medical screenings yearly. As an added incentive the more we keep our LODD numbers over 100 of which half are from post fireground related health reasons, the more he can scream and beat the safety drum. It's complete circular reasoning that justifies his existence in his own mind. Eliminate all the potential LODD/LODI and you eliminate his self appointed reason for being around any fire station.

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    Hypocrite that is all you are LA. On one post you state that you main concern for you tactical decisions on the fire ground is your members being returned with no injuries. However when it comes to the health and wellness that's another story. Absurd!! Cardiac events are the number one killer of fireman! You blame funding and the impact it will have on staffing. Total bs. What options has your department explored for funding. How much would it cost to send every volunteer to a physical? Surely you know and have gotten estimates since you say we cant afford it.

    How are you career members not required to have a OSHA respirator physical year? Or does the state of LA not require it? But wait isn't that us department of labor law?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnVBFD View Post
    It's the perfect circular logic. You all should know it by now. It's cheaper to bury a firefighter one time than it is for any physical/medical screenings yearly. As an added incentive the more we keep our LODD numbers over 100 of which half are from post fireground related health reasons, the more he can scream and beat the safety drum. It's complete circular reasoning that justifies his existence in his own mind. Eliminate all the potential LODD/LODI and you eliminate his self appointed reason for being around any fire station.
    So explain to me how physicals are the cur all for fire service line of duty deaths yet we routinely have career members in thier 30's and 40's, who I assume are having physicals, keeling over from cardiac events?

    The fact is most fire service deaths in members less than 50 are from underlying conditions that a basic physical will not detect. In fact, even an NFPA physical will not detect them. So how deep do we go, and at what cost?

    What do we exclude?

    What do we do with the career members that have those conditions that should preclude them from the job? We cannot afford to put them all on light duty so do we just let them go before they qualify for retirement, because that will become an issue.

    And what about the 55 plus crowd? most of them will likely have underlying conditions, so do we just kick them off the volunteer rosters and cripple many rural VFDs?

    In this area an NFPA physical runs close to $400, and there is one place that does them. For my VFD that would be close to 8K per year, and we simply don't have that. For my career department it would be almost 50K per year for our 60 or so line members.

    If you want to have yearly physicals at your department for all your members, have at it. I have no issues with any department choosing to do that, but there is no way that it should be mandated.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    So explain to me how physicals are the cur all for fire service line of duty deaths yet we routinely have career members in thier 30's and 40's, who I assume are having physicals, keeling over from cardiac events?
    Well, there aren't necessarily physicals being given everywhere. It's something that is being fought for in many places, but isn't being done everywhere. However, it is about much more than just a physical. This job is very physically demanding and places extremes of stress on the cardiac-respiratory system. It is a medical fact that an elevated core temperature has an extreme impact on the heart and lungs of all people. Coupled with an adrenalin surge, crazy things can happen to a persons body.

    A simple fact is that when you place the body under extreme conditions, such as at a fire scene, throw in over heating the core due to work, heat from the outside temp or working inside with gear being worn, then you add in adrenalin and dehydration, it isn't that far of a stretch to see how arrhythmia develops. Physicals are a very important component in the process, but they are just one of several components that include true fitness and improved diet.


    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    The fact is most fire service deaths in members less than 50 are from underlying conditions that a basic physical will not detect. In fact, even an NFPA physical will not detect them. So how deep do we go, and at what cost?
    Really? You're a doctor now? Please, provide a link to the medical study that states this information as fact.



    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    What do we do with the career members that have those conditions that should preclude them from the job? We cannot afford to put them all on light duty so do we just let them go before they qualify for retirement, because that will become an issue.
    Figure it out.



    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And what about the 55 plus crowd? most of them will likely have underlying conditions, so do we just kick them off the volunteer rosters and cripple many rural VFDs?
    Figure it out.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    In this area an NFPA physical runs close to $400, and there is one place that does them. For my VFD that would be close to 8K per year, and we simply don't have that. For my career department it would be almost 50K per year for our 60 or so line members.
    Figure it out. If you were really concerned with trying to reduce line-deaths and injuries you wouldn't be making such stupid statements and excuses. The fact is that you would be putting effort into trying to problem solve it. This is why no one will ever take you serious on any topic. All you do is make excuses. Guess what; it's a changing world out there. The tools we're being given to do this job are being changed. We now know more about the medical impact this job has on our bodies and we need to adjust how we do business, unless of course, you really aren't concerned with improving...


    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    If you want to have yearly physicals at your department for all your members, have at it. I have no issues with any department choosing to do that, but there is no way that it should be mandated.
    Then don't take the PSOB benefit. Don't take any shared revenue from your state. Don't apply for any AFG/SAFER grants. Don't take any presumptive cancer benefits or heart and lung for your department(s).
    Last edited by Jasper 45; 06-18-2013 at 08:27 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAFE
    simply backing away from the incident and allowing nature to take it's course.
    I'm pretty sure if that's what the homeowner wanted, they wouldn't have called the fire department.... I'm pretty sure if the idea was to "let nature take it's course" in regards to a fire, no one would pay the taxes to fund the fire department.... I'm pretty sure if the idea was "let nature take it's course" the fire department wouldn't exist.....

    Quote Originally Posted by LAFE
    Funny thing is that I don't "allow" anything ...... The Chief officers make policy.
    So, today you aren't allowing anything. Okay. But tomorrow you're not going to allow people to make an interior attack, right? How does that work? Is it strictly an every-other day schedule where you allow things and then don't have any influence? Does your influence operate on the 24/48 schedule? Do you get a Kelly Day? Does your influence use the California schedule? I'm just trying to figure it out so I know which angle you're going to reply with on any given day.....

    Quote Originally Posted by LAFE
    Not so much the heat, but the humidity accompanying the heat.
    Because Bossier Parish is the only place it's ever humid....

    Quote Originally Posted by LAFE
    It's not uncommon for most departments in this area to transport 3-5 members for heat related problems during significant fires and even extended MVA extrication operations.
    So, it's okay to send them out for heat related injuries from standing in the yard, but if they get hurt trying to save people and property, that's a no-no?

    Quote Originally Posted by LAFE
    True, but much of that will be covered by workman's comp and will not come out of the fire department budget, as the cost of the physicals would.
    But an injury sustained interior while trying to save lives and protect property isn't covered by workmans comp?

    Quote Originally Posted by LAFE
    My VFD would likely lose 1-2 members, and would have some impact on operations.
    You would first have to conduct some sort of "operations" for anything to have an impact on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by LAFE
    My is issue, and always will be, mandating such as they will have significant financial and manpower affects if required for all members - including exterior or driver-only - that will drastically affect fire protection in many small communities.
    But God forbid that physical that you mandated and may have inconvenienced your member or department slightly save the lives of someone with a hidden cardiac issue..... You're all about "everyone going home" yet you shun the idea of a screening or a physical that could potentially save someones life.... And again, your department would have to offer some sort of fire protection in order for a physical to drastically affect it.

    Quote Originally Posted by LAFE
    And what about the 55 plus crowd? most of them will likely have underlying conditions, so do we just kick them off the volunteer rosters and cripple many rural VFDs?
    Department 2 has an age cap at 65..... We're doing just fine membership wise.... Keep making excuses.
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    Originally Posted by LaFireEducator
    And what about the 55 plus crowd? most of them will likely have underlying conditions, so do we just kick them off the volunteer rosters and cripple many rural VFDs?
    As a member of that crowd... really?

    I am on zero meds.. you read that right, zero meds. I keep up with the "kids" and still work just about every opportunity that comes up in the burn building at the Academy.

    I know plenty of firefighters in that age group that run rings around the probies in ther FD's, career, call and volunteer.

    If they cannot do the job or perform the function as a firefighter, they are just an illusion of a fire department.
    Last edited by DeputyChiefGonzo; 06-18-2013 at 12:13 PM. Reason: spelling correction.
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    I have seen BackStep's words come true. In our dept. and surrounding depts. the mindset was to make sure that EGH. So suddenly we would look at things that were dangerous and stop doing them. Brilliant! Now we don't have to put SCBA on, do hose drills, practice situational awareness, do a size up, and the list goes on and on. The medical standards went down. The morale went down. The dedication went down, but the sale of I fight what you fear t-shirts went up. The lazy buggers multiplied because we did not have to do anything strenuous. We decided to put ourselves first at the cost of the tax-payer. The safety kick made no one safer, not the citizens or the firefighters.
    Last edited by conrad427; 06-18-2013 at 11:40 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    True, but much of that will be covered by workman's comp and will not come out of the fire department budget, as the cost of the physicals would.
    So NOW they are covered by Worker's Compensation? You have said repeatedly as one of your pathetic excuses for not chancing your vollies getting a Boo Boo that they didn't have Worker's Compensation. See Bobby, this is what happens when you fabricate nonsense, you have to remember it all or you just look like a pathetic liar.
    Last edited by FyredUp; 06-18-2013 at 11:33 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    Originally Posted by LaFireEducator


    As a member of that crowd... really?

    I am on zero meds.. you read that right, zero meds. I keep up with the "kids" and still work just about every opportunity that comes up in the burn building at the Academy.

    I know plenty of firefighters in that age group that run rings around the probies in ther FD's, career, call and volunteer.

    If they cannot do the job or perform the function as a firefighter, they are just an illusion of a fire department.
    Retire old man, make room for a youngster like me!!
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    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Retire old man, make room for a youngster like me!!
    I'll retire when I am good and ready.. . but I will tell you this.. I will not be one the guys hanging by their fingertips onto the door frame of the firehouse at the maximum retirement age pleading to stay. I have seen far too many people do this only to retire at 65 and read their obituaries a few months later.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    I'll retire when I am good and ready.. . but I will tell you this.. I will not be one the guys hanging by their fingertips onto the door frame of the firehouse at the maximum retirement age pleading to stay. I have seen far too many people do this only to retire at 65 and read their obituaries a few months later.
    9 work days and I am retired from the career FD. I will still teach, be on my 2 POC FDs, and be dabbling in other fire related interests. Still love the job, it was just time to go...
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    So explain to me how physicals are the cur all for fire service line of duty deaths yet we routinely have career members in thier 30's and 40's, who I assume are having physicals, keeling over from cardiac events?

    The fact is most fire service deaths in members less than 50 are from underlying conditions that a basic physical will not detect. In fact, even an NFPA physical will not detect them. So how deep do we go, and at what cost?

    What do we exclude?

    What do we do with the career members that have those conditions that should preclude them from the job? We cannot afford to put them all on light duty so do we just let them go before they qualify for retirement, because that will become an issue.

    And what about the 55 plus crowd? most of them will likely have underlying conditions, so do we just kick them off the volunteer rosters and cripple many rural VFDs?
    And here's the weenie. This post screams self preservation. You're fighting this so hard because you'd be cutting your own throat if your department mandated yearly physicals and p/t minimum standards.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    So NOW they are covered by Worker's Compensation? You have said repeatedly as one of your pathetic excuses for not chancing your vollies getting a Boo Boo that they didn't have Worker's Compensation. See Bobby, this is what happens when you fabricate nonsense, you have to remember it all or you just look like a pathetic liar.
    Never said that.

    I have always stated that they had workman's comp for medical bills as it's a state law that all FD's have workman's comp.

    However, I have stated numerous times that LA workman's comp does not provide wage protection to volunteer firefighters.

    It is for that reason that I will not commit them to a situation where they may be injured.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    Originally Posted by LaFireEducator


    As a member of that crowd... really?

    I am on zero meds.. you read that right, zero meds. I keep up with the "kids" and still work just about every opportunity that comes up in the burn building at the Academy.

    I know plenty of firefighters in that age group that run rings around the probies in ther FD's, career, call and volunteer.

    If they cannot do the job or perform the function as a firefighter, they are just an illusion of a fire department.
    That's great.

    But given that LA is one of the unhealthiest states in the nation, that is the exception here and not the norm.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Never said that.

    I have always stated that they had workman's comp for medical bills as it's a state law that all FD's have workman's comp.

    However, I have stated numerous times that LA workman's comp does not provide wage protection to volunteer firefighters.

    It is for that reason that I will not commit them to a situation where they may be injured.
    Quote Originally Posted by http://sfm.dps.louisiana.gov/fi-fd_firemans-insurance.htm
    INSURANCE AVAILABLE TO FIREFIGHTERS
    Volunteer Insurance
    Workers' Compensation Coverage for Volunteer Firefighters
    Effective November 1, 2009
    We are pleased to announce that, effective November 1, 2009, the State Fire Marshal's Office has secured workers' compensation insurance coverage for Louisiana's active volunteer firefighters. The insurance carrier is Louisiana Workers' Compensation Insurance Corporation (LWCC) through Lewis Mohr Real Estate and Insurance Agency, LLC. I must thank Governor Jindal, the Louisiana Legislature, the Louisiana State Firemens Association, the Louisiana Fire Chiefs' Association, and the Professional Fire Fighters Association of Louisiana for their support of this effort. This is a remarkable accomplishment to protect the volunteer firefighters who loyally give of themselves to serve Louisiana's citizens and visitors!
    There are necessary steps that need to be taken to provide this coverage. FIRST, in order for workers' compensation insurance coverage to be provided, the State Fire Marshal must have a current roster indicating the membership of the department. The law states:
    La. R. S. 23:1036. C.(3). Any member who is not carried on the membership list of the organization as of the date of the member's injury shall not be entitled to the benefits of this Section.

    SCHOLARSHIP FOR CHILDREN OF FIREFIGHTERS KILLED OR DISABLED IN PERFORMANCE OR DUTY
    Paid and volunteer for fees, tutition or other charity including room and board as long as child meets the academic requirements and maintains a "C" average. In addition such children shall be entitled to a cash grant of $240 per semester as an allowance for books, etc.

    $50,000 ACCIDENTAL DEATH
    Resulting in course of performance of official duties payment by State Risk Manager out to the self insurance fund credited in R.S.39:1533(A).
    $50,000 - Spouse
    $25,000 - Children
    You will need the following information:
    Copy of marriage certificate.
    Affidavit the couple was living together at the time of death. Affidavit must be notarized.
    Copies of birth certificate(s) of children.
    Copy of death certificate or autopsy.
    "Fire Chief Affidavit" from the Fire Chief stating individual was employed or in an active role at the fire department at time of death as firefighter or volunteer firefighter.
    Proof of Loss - Hartford Accidental Death and Junior Fire Fighter Form

    PUBLIC SAFETY OFFICERS AND FIREFIGHTERS DEATH BENEFITS
    Act USC 3796 et seq was enacted in 1976. As of September 01, 2000 PSOB's benefit increased to $151,635.00.

    LOUISIANA STATE FIREMEN'S ASSOCIATION
    $15,000 accidental death benefit for fatality in the line of duty.
    http://sfm.dps.louisiana.gov/doc/fi/...blicsafety.pdf

    ........ looks to me like there are workmans comp benefits for LODD's in LA........
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    http://sfm.dps.louisiana.gov/doc/fi/...blicsafety.pdf

    ........ looks to me like there are workmans comp benefits for LODD's in LA........
    We are not discussing the LODD benefits.

    We are discussing wage compensation. There is no wage compensation for volunteer firefighters in LA.

    That's why I will not allow my members to be placed in situations where there is risk of injury without enough manpower and resources to support that task.

    Re-read the post:



    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post

    Never said that.

    I have always stated that they had workman's comp for medical bills as it's a state law that all FD's have workman's comp.

    However, I have stated numerous times that LA workman's comp does not provide wage protection to volunteer firefighters.

    It is for that reason that I will not commit them to a situation where they may be injured.
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowball View Post
    And here's the weenie. This post screams self preservation. You're fighting this so hard because you'd be cutting your own throat if your department mandated yearly physicals and p/t minimum standards.
    Not at all.

    I have been cleared by my physician.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    We are not discussing the LODD benefits.

    We are discussing wage compensation. There is no wage compensation for volunteer firefighters in LA.

    That's why I will not allow my members to be placed in situations where there is risk of injury without enough manpower and resources to support that task.

    Re-read the post:



    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post

    Never said that.

    I have always stated that they had workman's comp for medical bills as it's a state law that all FD's have workman's comp.

    However, I have stated numerous times that LA workman's comp does not provide wage protection to volunteer firefighters.

    It is for that reason that I will not commit them to a situation where they may be injured.
    The State Fire Marshal may provide workers' compensation to volunteer firefighters. For the purpose of determining the amount of disability due to an injured volunteer, the volunteer's wages are considered to be the federal minimum wage or actual wages earned in the volunteer's regular employment. Total disability benefits may not exceed 520 weeks.

    Contact: Louisiana Office of the State Fire Marshal. 8181 Independence Blvd, Baton Rouge, LA 70806. Phone: (800) 256-5452.

    http://www.nvfc.org/hot-topics/workers-compensation

    From the LA State Fire Marshal
    http://sfm.dps.louisiana.gov/doc/fi/...escription.pdf

    I'm still not 100% sold on no wage protection.... Sounds to me like there is disability, both short term and long term, for volunteer firefighters in your state.
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    I've come to the conclusion that you are a flip-flopping coward. You have hit rock bottom and are digging desperately for an escape. You believe you're helping your agencies, but in reality, are making the situation worse for those who have to serve under you. LA, the fire service isn't for you; however you may want to try politics, you've got flip-flopping and double standards down to a science.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToDaRoof View Post
    I've come to the conclusion that you are a flip-flopping coward. You have hit rock bottom and are digging desperately for an escape. You believe you're helping your agencies, but in reality, are making the situation worse for those who have to serve under you. LA, the fire service isn't for you; however you may want to try politics, you've got flip-flopping and double standards down to a science.
    Funny as those who work with me have no issues.

    By the way, if you vote for me I'll make sure that you get a free government phone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Funny as those who work with me have no issues.
    Maybe not to your face.

    And you can keep your government phone, I prefer to actually work for things. And yes, my work consists of running into burning buildings to save people I don't know and the things that they've spent their hard earned dollar on. I even do it for free on my days off, and still take care of a family. Crazy concept, isn't it? You know, actually doing the thing you applied to do? Maybe you'll "get it" one day, but I'd be willing to bet a month's pay that you won't.
    "I am an aggressive firefighter, and that is not an apology."

    FTM-PTB-RFB-EGH-KTF

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Funny as those who work with me have no issues.
    As ToDaRoof said, not to your face.

    Consider this too, maybe if they truly have no issues with you, perhaps that's because you're pathetic thought process is all they've known... Maybe if they got out it to the real world with real firefighters doing the job, they would look at you and feel the same way as the rest of us do.
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    As ToDaRoof said, not to your face.

    Consider this too, maybe if they truly have no issues with you, perhaps that's because you're pathetic thought process is all they've known... Maybe if they got out it to the real world with real firefighters doing the job, they would look at you and feel the same way as the rest of us do.
    Funny as I'm about to be promoted at my VFD and was just named the Education Trustee for the northwest LA chapter of a national firefighting fraternal organization.

    Was just asked to come on as an hand-off instructor with state fire training agency.

    And I still have several other departments calling asking me to teach on a regular basis. In fact, I just did 2 classes for 2 departments in a neighboring parish.

    So .................................. Your point was??????
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Funny as I'm about to be promoted at my VFD and was just named the Education Trustee for the northwest LA chapter of a national firefighting fraternal organization.

    Sooooo now the whole NW portion of LA can burn down because of your pathetic views and tactics.... That's awesome...

    Was just asked to come on as an hand-off instructor with state fire training agency.

    Keep reading your resume, it won't change how any of us view you.

    And I still have several other departments calling asking me to teach on a regular basis. In fact, I just did 2 classes for 2 departments in a neighboring parish.

    I would take no instruction and a good luck pat on the back before I wasted any time sitting in a class that you were "teaching."

    So .................................. Your point was??????
    My point is, you keep making excuse after excuse after excuse, keep posting your resume, and keep trying to justify your pathetic actions.

    I couldn't give two schitts of Obama appointed you Czar of the fire service, you'd still be a pathetic waste of turn out gear.
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

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