Like Tree53Likes

Thread: I was browsing Backstep Firefighter today....

  1. #76
    Forum Member
    Bones42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Pt. Beach, NJ
    Posts
    10,702

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Common sense.

    They know what they pay in taxes vs. the city.

    They know we are volunteer.

    And they know the LE and EMS will also take longer.

    This really isn't rocket science. They know that living in the rural area has consequences. They see it everyday with road maintenance and other basic services. The folks in this area know that they are served by a VFD with extended response times.
    My town knows we are volunteer as well. And extended response times are one bit of the puzzle.

    There is a big difference in believing the FD will come to rescue a person vs not committing their members for safety reasons. And you know that.

    Do the citizens know that the likelihood of the FD making entry to attack the fire and/or search for a victim is very low or not expected of the FD? Has your FD told them that fact?

    It's a very simple yes/no question.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  2. #77
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,677

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    My town knows we are volunteer as well. And extended response times are one bit of the puzzle.

    There is a big difference in believing the FD will come to rescue a person vs not committing their members for safety reasons. And you know that.

    Do the citizens know that the likelihood of the FD making entry to attack the fire and/or search for a victim is very low or not expected of the FD? Has your FD told them that fact?

    It's a very simple yes/no question.
    They do not have the same expectations that they would of the neighboring city combo department.

    And again, I would not say that we are not likely to make entry. if the manpower exists we will, however, at this time, however, manpower levels fluctuate significantly.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  3. #78
    Forum Member
    Chenzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Rural WI
    Posts
    1,253

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    They do not have the same expectations that they would of the neighboring city combo department.

    Until you've TOLD them, and they've ACKNOWLEDGED that, don't for one second think that their expectations lie with what you're capable of doing.

    And again, I would not say that we are not likely to make entry. if the manpower exists we will, however, at this time, however, manpower levels fluctuate significantly.

    Which means you wont.... Because you've made repeated claims that the manpower doesn't exist.
    Mr. PubEd, why don't you sack up and educate the public on what you're capable of doing? Here's an example for ya....

    http://fox6now.com/2013/01/25/sherif...r-best-option/

    Can you do that word for word? Of course not, you're the "fire department," not the police. But something along those lines would be a great start.
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

  4. #79
    Forum Member
    FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    10,296

    Default

    He's never going to admit that his sham of a VFD is built on the delusionary belief that the people of the community know that the $160K they fund annually essentially buys them a burn down your house and recover the bodies service.

    He absolutely cannot go to any sort of public forum and report this, either to the governing body or the citizens. He won't report that they can't guarantee any response at all, he can't report if there is a response that they can't guarantee a single officer will respond, he can't report that because of a lack of training and a number of exterior only members that he can't guarantee an adequate number of firefighters to go inside and fight the fire or attempt to rescue any trapped victims.

    You see if he or the chief actually go public with this news, instead of pretending that everyone already knows, the house of cards collapses and the light of reality creaps in. People will begin to wonder why they need multiple stations, and new trucks, when there is no one to operate them and no one to actually fight the fire in a way that might save their home and their very lives.

    It is delusions built on false premises hidden by smoke, mirrors and lies. Nothing more.
    Chenzo likes this.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  5. #80
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,677

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    He's never going to admit that his sham of a VFD is built on the delusionary belief that the people of the community know that the $160K they fund annually essentially buys them a burn down your house and recover the bodies service.

    He absolutely cannot go to any sort of public forum and report this, either to the governing body or the citizens. He won't report that they can't guarantee any response at all, he can't report if there is a response that they can't guarantee a single officer will respond, he can't report that because of a lack of training and a number of exterior only members that he can't guarantee an adequate number of firefighters to go inside and fight the fire or attempt to rescue any trapped victims.

    You see if he or the chief actually go public with this news, instead of pretending that everyone already knows, the house of cards collapses and the light of reality creaps in. People will begin to wonder why they need multiple stations, and new trucks, when there is no one to operate them and no one to actually fight the fire in a way that might save their home and their very lives.

    It is delusions built on false premises hidden by smoke, mirrors and lies. Nothing more.
    First of all, I am not in a position to make the decision on what to tell and not tell the citizens.

    That is the decision of the Chief and the Board.

    I personally would have no issues. It may stimulate recruitment.

    And there is not a VFD in this area that can guarantee anything that you have mentioned. So should they all fold?

    And again, what would be your solution since you seem to have all the answers?
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  6. #81
    Forum Member
    Bones42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Pt. Beach, NJ
    Posts
    10,702

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    First of all, I am not in a position to make the decision on what to tell and not tell the citizens.

    That is the decision of the Chief and the Board.

    I personally would have no issues. It may stimulate recruitment.

    And there is not a VFD in this area that can guarantee anything that you have mentioned. So should they all fold?

    And again, what would be your solution since you seem to have all the answers?
    Then don't lie to us and tell us the citizens know exactly what/how their local FD is.

    Yes, it may stimulate recruitment....the down side of that? I'm sure your bringing this to the Chief's attention...after all....you are the Public Education person.

    No, not fold. Offer the truth and try to improve that.

    We've given you a few solutions. 1. Tell the public what they really have "protecting" them. 2. Increase your training standards so the public has better "protection".
    Chenzo likes this.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  7. #82
    Forum Member
    Chenzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Rural WI
    Posts
    1,253

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    First of all, I am not in a position to make the decision on what to tell and not tell the citizens.

    Shocker. Back to it being someone else's responsibility.

    That is the decision of the Chief and the Board.

    And who, do tell, influences the chief who may in turn influence the board? Have you even suggested to the chief that telling the citizens what you're actually capable, or not capable of, on any given day?

    I personally would have no issues. It may stimulate recruitment.

    Then wouldn't it be logical to present said idea to the chief, and inform him of the possible positive side effects from such an announcement?

    And there is not a VFD in this area that can guarantee anything that you have mentioned. So should they all fold?

    There's a difference between folding (which I've only advocated for YOU to do personally, not your department), and informing the public that you have staffing, training, and response issues. Informing them that you may or may not be able to act up to or in excess of their expectations is far better than showing up and dissapointing them in an already upsetting time.

    And again, what would be your solution since you seem to have all the answers?

    Um, doing SOMETHING instead of NOTHING. That something being informing the population of your district that you may not be able to save grandma, or their house, instead of sitting on your hands hoping for the best each time the pager goes off.
    If you were really in favor of informing the citizens, you would have made it happen already. Instead, you come on here and say that's just the way it is. I'm really, truly starting to believe that you refuse to push for informing them because it would take you off your pedestal.
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

  8. #83
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,677

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Then don't lie to us and tell us the citizens know exactly what/how their local FD is.

    The fact is the citizens in these rural areas do know exactly what they are getting for emergency services and public services. They see that one Deputy on the road and wait 20 minutes for him to arrive. The call for EMS and wait those 21 or 22 minutes.

    The fact is our citizens do know what they are getting.


    Yes, it may stimulate recruitment....the down side of that? I'm sure your bringing this to the Chief's attention...after all....you are the Public Education person.

    While it may, I doubt it would.

    I have discussed this approach with the Chief, and he is not interested in pursuing this. And he doubts the board would go along with it as well.

    As I have stated there simply is very little interest in being a volunteer firefighter throughout the majority of the state. It's just not something that historically has been something that has attracted the interest of the citizens, either locally, regionally or statewide.

    There are a few pockets down south where there is a long-standing community tradition and a family history of volunteering, but those departments are the exception and not by any stretch the rule.

    We have a older population in the district, and yes, we utilize them as exterior members, who are a and always will be a critical part of the department, just like they are in just about every rural VFD statewide.

    And many of the limited number of younger citizens work in the oil and gas business which is a typical 70-80 work week, and they have very little time to volunteer or very little interest in volunteering after working those hours.

    I would love to have 20 or 25 active members on my roster to guarantee a response of at least 8-10 members per call. Even with that number, probably no more than 50-60% would ever be interior just because of the demographics of the district. But the reality is there is no history either locally or regionally indicated that likely that never will be the case.

    That's not being defeatist. That's just looking at history.


    No, not fold. Offer the truth and try to improve that.

    Again, that in the hands of the boss and the board.

    We've given you a few solutions. 1. Tell the public what they really have "protecting" them. 2. Increase your training standards so the public has better "protection".

    And it has nothing to do with training standards. Our current standards are tougher than any department in the parish. And we have lost members because of those standards.

    It has to do with experience and numbers. the members that we have are very inexperienced, due to a lack of fires. And we simply don't have the numbers to go interior safely until the AMA engine arrives about half the time.

    As an IC I will not compromise my members safety to save property, or in most cases, even life.

    My personnel are simply too important to put in those positions.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  9. #84
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,677

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    If you were really in favor of informing the citizens, you would have made it happen already. Instead, you come on here and say that's just the way it is. I'm really, truly starting to believe that you refuse to push for informing them because it would take you off your pedestal.
    If "I" was ....?

    Last I knew a LT did not make the decisions regarding what information we released or did not release to the public.

    But maybe that's just my departments.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  10. #85
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,677

    Default

    Shocker. Back to it being someone else's responsibility.

    Wow..... Again last I knew those types of decisions rested with the Chief and possibly the board.

    Maybe in your department an LT is at the top of the chain of command, but not here.



    And who, do tell, influences the chief who may in turn influence the board? Have you even suggested to the chief that telling the citizens what you're actually capable, or not capable of, on any given day?

    We have had that discussion. he is not in favor, and he doubts the board would be.


    Then wouldn't it be logical to present said idea to the chief, and inform him of the possible positive side effects from such an announcement?

    And he was more concerned with the negative side.

    He's the boss. It's his call.


    There's a difference between folding (which I've only advocated for YOU to do personally, not your department), and informing the public that you have staffing, training, and response issues. Informing them that you may or may not be able to act up to or in excess of their expectations is far better than showing up and dissapointing them in an already upsetting time.

    And again, most of them are aware of our limitations.

    As far as showing up and not performing, we honestly have never had negative comments when we lose a structure. In fact, we usually leave to a round of thank you's.



    Um, doing SOMETHING instead of NOTHING. That something being informing the population of your district that you may not be able to save grandma, or their house, instead of sitting on your hands hoping for the best each time the pager goes off.

    And the Chief prefers not to do that.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  11. #86
    Forum Member
    Chenzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Rural WI
    Posts
    1,253

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LAFE
    If "I" was ....?
    Last I knew a LT did not make the decisions regarding what information we released or did not release to the public.
    But maybe that's just my departments.
    Maybe my chief just values my opinion more than your chief values your opinion.....

    Quote Originally Posted by LAFE
    Wow..... Again last I knew those types of decisions rested with the Chief and possibly the board.
    Maybe in your department an LT is at the top of the chain of command, but not here.
    Lieutenant is not top of the board, no. But the chief takes input from the other officers, and then makes his decision. Just because the decision itself rests on the shoulders of the chief doesn't mean there's no influence or conversation from the other officers.

    Quote Originally Posted by LAFE
    We have had that discussion. he is not in favor, and he doubts the board would be.
    So your whole organization wants to keep the facade of a fire department. Gotcha.

    Quote Originally Posted by LAFE
    And he was more concerned with the negative side.
    He's the boss. It's his call.
    I certainly hope misleading the public never comes back to bite your department in the ***.

    Quote Originally Posted by LAFE
    And again, most of them are aware of our limitations.

    As far as showing up and not performing, we honestly have never had negative comments when we lose a structure. In fact, we usually leave to a round of thank you's.
    Whatever you say, I still don't believe they are aware of your limitations, nor do I believe that anyone has thanked you for burning their house down.

    Quote Originally Posted by LAFE
    And the Chief prefers not to do that.
    Keep the illusion alive, and hope it doesn't turn around and bite you. All it takes is one p*ssed off citizen to go WTF and you'll have a media nightmare on your hands.
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

  12. #87
    Forum Member
    Bones42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Pt. Beach, NJ
    Posts
    10,702

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    The fact is the citizens in these rural areas do know exactly what they are getting for emergency services and public services. They see that one Deputy on the road and wait 20 minutes for him to arrive. The call for EMS and wait those 21 or 22 minutes.

    The fact is our citizens do know what they are getting.
    Again with the delayed response.....

    Even with your delayed response....do they know the limits of your FD? Do they know that even after the FD arrives....they may still do very little?
    Chenzo likes this.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  13. #88
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    SW Missouri
    Posts
    1,156

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post

    As an IC I will not compromise my members safety to save property, or in most cases, even life.
    What do you see as the primary job of your Fire Department?

  14. #89
    Forum Member
    DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,586

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rm1524 View Post
    What do you see as the primary job of your Fire Department?
    For Bobby.. keeping him employed.
    FyredUp and Chenzo like this.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  15. #90
    Forum Member
    FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    10,296

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    First of all, I am not in a position to make the decision on what to tell and not tell the citizens.

    Really? You aren't in a position to point out that the image of the fire department as a life and property saving entity is a sham? You aren't in a position to TELL THE TRUTH about the capabilities of your VFD? he you aren't smart enough to understand the liability you accept by being an officer and agreeing with the deception the VFD is perpetuating. You see Bobby, you don't have to be the chief to tell your fire board and the citizens you supposedly protect what an absolute sham that is.

    That is the decision of the Chief and the Board.

    Grow a pair and do what's right for once in your life.

    I personally would have no issues. It may stimulate recruitment.

    And there is not a VFD in this area that can guarantee anything that you have mentioned. So should they all fold?

    I believe this is about honestly and openly informing your board and your citizens of the TRUE capabilities of your VFD. Not being so delusional that you BELIEVE they already know. Once they really do know it is up to them to decide what the next step is. It is not up to you, your chief or any other member of your VFD to deceive thse they are supposed to be protecting.

    And again, what would be your solution since you seem to have all the answers?

    See above. The answer is what your board and citizens will accept and what they will do to achieve that.
    Your entire premise of your VFD is built on deception, delsuions and less than half-truths.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  16. #91
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,677

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rm1524 View Post
    What do you see as the primary job of your Fire Department?
    Like any FD, to save viable life and property as training, experience, manpower and resources allow.

    Right now experience and resources are hit and miss, and that is the reality that as an an officer and an IC, I have to be prepared to work within.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 06-22-2013 at 08:01 AM.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  17. #92
    Forum Member
    FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    10,296

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Like any FD, to save viable life and property as training, experience, manpower and resources allow.

    Right now experience and resources are hit and miss, and that is the reality that as an an officer and an IC, I have to be prepared to work within.
    And that is the reality you choose to keep from the board and the citizens. Frankly the most telling comment about how pathetic a scam your VFD is is the one you made about the chief not wanting to tell the board and citizens that he can't guarantee a response of firefighters, he can't guarantee an officer will respond, and further, even if there is a response he most certainly can't guarantee any interior firefighting or rescues will be even attempted.

    Yepper, so how much does the chief get paid to keep this illusion going?
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  18. #93
    Forum Member
    conrad427's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Just south of Canada
    Posts
    582

    Default

    I got the idea today of someone holding the community hostage using standards set by the NFPA. A never ending cycle of campaigning for more money to attain unobtainable levels of staffing and equipment and training, levels that some may never want to reach, as they would cease to be needed and they would lose the power they hold over the community and the department. Just a thought.
    The fire service is about service to our fellow man.
    There is a trust that must not be broken and we are the keepers of that trust.
    Captain Dave LeBlanc

  19. #94
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    SW Missouri
    Posts
    1,156

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Like any FD, to save viable life and property as training, experience, manpower and resources allow.

    Right now experience and resources are hit and miss, and that is the reality that as an an officer and an IC, I have to be prepared to work within.
    Really? You need to go back and read some of the things you have posted because from what you have said in the past to this statement, are light years apart.

    You don't have issues in your rank and file you have leadership issues.
    Chenzo likes this.

  20. #95
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,677

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    And that is the reality you choose to keep from the board and the citizens. Frankly the most telling comment about how pathetic a scam your VFD is is the one you made about the chief not wanting to tell the board and citizens that he can't guarantee a response of firefighters, he can't guarantee an officer will respond, and further, even if there is a response he most certainly can't guarantee any interior firefighting or rescues will be even attempted.

    Again, there isn't a department in the parish that can a guarantee a response except for the two departments that have one paid member, and the city combo department that has 5 paid per shift.

    So I guess it's a parish wide scam then.


    Yepper, so how much does the chief get paid to keep this illusion going?
    Nothing. None of the officers are paid or receive stipends.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  21. #96
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,677

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    I got the idea today of someone holding the community hostage using standards set by the NFPA. A never ending cycle of campaigning for more money to attain unobtainable levels of staffing and equipment and training, levels that some may never want to reach, as they would cease to be needed and they would lose the power they hold over the community and the department. Just a thought.
    Really?

    We have no plans to ask for any paid staff as it's simply unaffordable without a significant increase in the fire tax mileage. In addition, the run volume could never justify anymore than one paid member (who is currently not in any long-term plan), whose primary duties would be maintenance, janitorial, rating-related and administrative functions.

    All I am mandating is an operation which gives our members a minimum level of safety before making entry - an exterior command officer dedicated to the command function, a two-member hose team, a two-member hose and rapid intervention team, a driver-operator for the initial engine and a driver getting the tanker or second engine up.

    At least two of the officers would likely make entry without the backup handline. To me, that is completely unacceptable and puts the initial hand line team at too great a risk.

    Certainly not NFPA level staffing. But yes, staffing to ensure the safety of our members operating interior.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 06-22-2013 at 09:57 PM.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  22. #97
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,677

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rm1524 View Post
    Really? You need to go back and read some of the things you have posted because from what you have said in the past to this statement, are light years apart.

    You don't have issues in your rank and file you have leadership issues.
    Yes, believe in protecting life and property only after I have taken the steps needed to protect the lives of my members first.

    That is still protecting lives and property.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  23. #98
    Forum Member
    conrad427's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Just south of Canada
    Posts
    582

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Yes, believe in protecting life and property only after I have taken the steps needed to protect the lives of my members first.

    That is still protecting lives and property.
    Sure, but you could stay home and do that.
    The fire service is about service to our fellow man.
    There is a trust that must not be broken and we are the keepers of that trust.
    Captain Dave LeBlanc

  24. #99
    Forum Member
    FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    10,296

    Default

    Originally Posted by FyredUp
    And that is the reality you choose to keep from the board and the citizens. Frankly the most telling comment about how pathetic a scam your VFD is is the one you made about the chief not wanting to tell the board and citizens that he can't guarantee a response of firefighters, he can't guarantee an officer will respond, and further, even if there is a response he most certainly can't guarantee any interior firefighting or rescues will be even attempted.

    Again, there isn't a department in the parish that can a guarantee a response except for the two departments that have one paid member, and the city combo department that has 5 paid per shift.

    So I guess it's a parish wide scam then.


    If, like your VFD and your chief, they haven't publicly announced to the board and the citizens the shortcomings of their respective VFDs then YES, it is a parrish wide scam.

    If you and your chief are so sure of yourselves and the path you are taking why are you both too scared to tell the truthto the board and the citizens?


    Yepper, so how much does the chief get paid to keep this illusion going?

    Nothing. None of the officers are paid or receive stipends.

    Well, at least the community is getting their money's worth!
    Stop the deception, stop the lies, stop the illusion of fire protection and tell the board and the community the truth and let them make an informed decision on what THEY want to do.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  25. #100
    Forum Member
    FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    10,296

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    We have no plans to ask for any paid staff as it's simply unaffordable without a significant increase in the fire tax mileage. In addition, the run volume could never justify anymore than one paid member (who is currently not in any long-term plan), whose primary duties would be maintenance, janitorial, rating-related and administrative functions.

    Yet your VFD can afford to purchase 2 new rigs, and engine and a tanker. Even though you don't have enough people to operate what you have now.

    Further, here is your idiotic idea of making your first paid guy primarily a janitor, and secretary. How in the Hell does that help your major problem of nobody responding.


    All I am mandating is an operation which gives our members a minimum level of safety before making entry - an exterior command officer dedicated to the command function, a two-member hose team, a two-member hose and rapid intervention team, a driver-operator for the initial engine and a driver getting the tanker or second engine up.

    If you are going to wait for all that before you do a D*** thng you might as well never respond. No department that I am aware of, career or volunteer, waits for the entire first alarm to arrive on scene before doing anything. Frankly, of all the idiotic nonsense that shows how little you actually know about real world firefighting this is overwhelmingly the most idiotic. Clearly you grasp of initial fireground operations is so completely out of whack that it is pointless trying to discuss tactics with you.

    At least two of the officers would likely make entry without the backup handline. To me, that is completely unacceptable and puts the initial hand line team at too great a risk.

    Completely acceptable IF you know that additional manpower and equipment are en route to the scene. What it counts on is an officer that has the skill and guts to make the right decision. Your problem is you look at every situation that isn't done exactly your pathetic way as being some sort of suicide mission. Trained, skilled firefighters with determination and courage can, and do, start operations ev eryday with one engine on location.


    Certainly not NFPA level staffing. But yes, staffing to ensure the safety of our members operating interior.

    There is an exception to the standards as well as 2 in and 2 out if there is a need for immediate rescue. I guess you choose to ignore that...Believe me I am not at all surprised.
    Just more of your same tired stick.
    Chenzo and conrad427 like this.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. The UK Today
    By SteveDude in forum The Off Duty Forums
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 11-11-2006, 06:36 PM
  2. It Was So Hot Today That...
    By Firefighter1219 in forum The Off Duty Forums
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 08-24-2005, 05:57 PM
  3. So what have you done TODAY?
    By ullrichk in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 04-06-2005, 10:28 PM
  4. Today is the last day to file for the New York City firefighter exam
    By E40FDNYL35 in forum Career/Paid Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 11-02-2002, 12:28 PM
  5. Who's browsing the boards Web Team?
    By mfgentili in forum Firehouse.Com Site Comments
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-17-2001, 02:52 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register