Like Tree1Likes

Thread: Pump operations/Pump discharge pressure question

  1. #1
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    11

    Default Pump operations/Pump discharge pressure question

    Alright guys,

    Im in a bind.

    I believe that the pump operator is a highly skilled position and i can definitely tell a good operator from a bad one. (or can i?) The bad one being the guy that hits the preset button on the electronic governor and that's that.

    heres my problem. My department currently runs our nozzles at 200 gpm on 1 3/4 cross lays. 2 of our cross lays are 150ft and one is 200ft. keeping in mind we're never going to get that full 200 gpm out of the nozzle because the preset for the pump is 150psi PDP.

    the reasoning i get when asked why we run the nozzles at 200 gpm instead of gating it down so we know exactly how much water we're flowing is "why not throw as much water as you can at the fire"

    this is truly the pinocle of wet stuff on the red stuff firefighting. which is not bad.. i guess.. but id like to think this is a skilled trade instead of this mentality.

    My question: How do i get guys to realize that its important for the pump op to know how much water hes flowing.

    besides knowing your gpm for calculating friction loss. unfortunately, with our current set up, the preset at 150psi PDP does get the pressure at the nozzle in the ballpark. this fact is working against me in putting together a scenario that would get people interested in learning more about proper pump operation.

    A quick example:

    If we deployed a 100' of 3" yard lay with a 150' of 1 3/4 line on it with a gated Y. the 150 PDP still gets you within 10-15psi at the nozzle. Granted, we dont know exactly the friction loss, but even if we were flowing 150gpm it is close to optimal pressure at the tip. it might not be optimal pressure but it will put the fire out. this is just one example thats working against me.

    What am i missing?

    Thanks guys,

    Kyle

  2. #2
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    SW Missouri
    Posts
    1,156

    Default

    What type of nozzle are you using?

  3. #3
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    11

    Default

    we have a few nozzles in service.

    we're somewhat backwards so bare with me.. we have the akromatic 1 nozzles on a 150' cross lay and a 200' cross lay. a turbojet nozzle (we were trying it out) on the other 150' crosslay and an akromatic 2 on the 2 1/2 200' blitz line. (all 100psi nozzles and all set at 200gpm)

  4. #4
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    96

    Default

    Let's see..

    To answer your question on How do i get guys to realize that it's important for the pump op to know how much water he's flowing...

    I basically explain it to my guys like this.... Imagine you're the SFO on scene and you have a big fire and limited resources. You have a 1250 GPM pumper that has a master stream going flowing 400GPM. Wouldn't you want a competent engineer who can give you a solid no BS answer if you ask him what else he can provide out of that truck?

    By explaining and hammering the point across to the guys who want to be engineer's, or even some who are currently engineer's, that you need to know, or have a good idea on what water is going out and what kind of residual pressure/volume capability you have... A lot of the younger guys have this mentality of "set it at 150" or don't know the difference between pressure and rpm mode and don't take the time to study and become a great driver op.

    About the nozzles you use.. We use TFT 100psi variable nozzles that automatically produce an effective fire stream as long as we get 100 at the tip and it's within the GPM range for the nozzle.

    If you have nozzles that are adjustable GPM nozzles, then I would imagine if you have it set at 200 GPM then the inside orifice is only going to produce the best stream for that setting at the 200 GPM flow. which is going to require more than 150psi.

    Maybe you can explain to them that at 150psi you are only getting around 150GPM out of the nozzle for the 150' lays and even less out of the 200' lays. Tell them you are not going to produce the effective fire stream and give the attack crews the best reach and coverage with the nozzle set at 200GPM unless you bump up the psi and not use the preset or dial that nozzle down to 150GPM.
    rm1524 likes this.

  5. #5
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    11

    Default

    i get what youre saying.. an believe me, i agree with you all the way. telling them that were not getting the best stream might work. i have been trying to get the dept to back down the gpm at the nozzles to 125gpm. this way we can calculate friction loss and produce effective fire streams.

    But every ounce of experience from the decision makers (the older guys... not that its a bad thing to be older and experienced) is working against me. They have responded to fires for years before i got on and put them out. my argument has been falling on deaf ears because of this fact. i need to be able to prove to them that throwing a little less water (moving the nozzles down from 200gpm to 150 or 125gpm) is actually more efficient.

    Fire flow calculations are working against me as well. when you read books like the one by chief John Norman that quote the amount of water needed to put out the amount of btu's an average house has per square foot, its hard to argue their theory as to put as much water on the fire as possible, quickly.

    Well, it might not be hard to argue the point. i just dont know how to educate properly.

  6. #6
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    96

    Default

    Set up a demonstration at a training fire with just a room and contents on a second floor around some turns and bends (if you have the capability). Have them go in with a nozzle charged to flow a true 200GPMs and one charged to flow 125GPMs. Have only 1 engine company perform fire attack/hose humping, and see which one is easier and less tiring to discharge water.

    Now, I totally understand the concept of more water better... at times... but sometimes you don't have a large fire load, or just 2 guys to hump hose...

    Best way to promote change to the old timers is to educate with hands on demonstrations and well organized training sessions, so they take you seriously.

    Maybe set up a SOG review board for the specific SOG that sets the guidance on the Attack Lines.
    Last edited by USAFfiredog; 06-21-2013 at 08:08 PM.

  7. #7
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    SW Missouri
    Posts
    1,156

    Default

    One thing you can do is to find a flow meter and do a demo on what is being flowed at the different pressures and different GPM settings. It should open some eyes.

    A fricton loss chart can also be your friend. Here is a sample of one that I found doing a quick search.

    http://www.all-americanhose.com/prod...ion/index.html

    Using your crosslays off the truck your're dead on your 150 foot, under on your 200 foot (assuming your using 1 3/4 hose), and way over on you 2 1/2.

    Add a dead lay and a 'Y' and you need to do some more math.

  8. #8
    Forum Member
    FWDbuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Pee-Ayy!
    Posts
    7,411

    Default

    Their argument of "throwing the most water at a fire that they can" holds absolutely zero weight when considering basic hydraulics. You dont even have to leave the comfort of your station to prove that to them. Pull up any old friction loss chart and calculate the needed pump pressure for 200' of 1.75" hose with a required NP of 100psi. I cannot remember the numbers verbatim but I think its in the "general neighborhood" of 185psi.

    Obviously you pump at the highest required pressure and gate everything else back. It's not rocket science but it's not for cavemen, either. Oh and one other thing, get rid of the automatic nozzles and 90% of your problems go away.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  9. #9
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    11

    Default

    i guess.. in a round about way, what im saying is they dont care about the required pdp to operate the nozzle effectively. their thinking is "how is more not better?" the thought is, open everything up as wide as possible and put water on the fire..

    you and i both know that we are not getting close to 200gpm at the 150 pdp. My request to back it down to even 150gpm at the nozzles goes unheard. this is their thought process.

    "if i run the nozzle at 200gpm and a PDP of 150psi, yea i know im not getting 200gpm but i might be getting 160gpm and thats better than backing the nozzle down to 150gpm and that being the max i can get"

    now, i know its wrong.. but i CAN NOT effectively express why.

    i need to do some hands on training but i fear that there will be little difference in the performance and my argument will be lost forever if i dont do it right.

  10. #10
    Forum Member
    backsteprescue123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    4,318

    Default

    At my department we have two different length pre-connects. The first is 150' of 1.75" (Short Bank) and the second is 225' of 1.75"(Long Bank). We use breakapart Akron Assault nozzles rated for 200 GPM at 75 psi.

    Through testing our Training Bureau conducted our flows are as follows...

    Short Bank - 113 PDP flows 163 GPM

    Long Bank - 153 PDP flows 163 GPM

    That GPM works well for us for a few reasons. First, we are guaranteed multiple lines in the structure at every fire. Each engine is bringing their own line in and when you have 4 or 5 nozzles flowing appx 163 gallons it usually works pretty well. Secondly, by our procedures, every morning during the rig check, the driver is to reset the Relief Valve to 150 psi. This way the driver doesn't have to remember to bump up the relief valve for the long bank. Lastly, many people like to unscrew the fog tip and either use the 7/8 tip that remains or throw another tip on. As the required NP for a smoothbore is 50 psi, pumping at our specified pressured gives you good flow, reach, and penetration while still having enough pressure to minimize kinks in the line.
    ------------------------------------
    These opinions are mine and do not reflect the opinions of any organizations I am affiliated with.
    ------------------------------------

  11. #11
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Pa Wilds
    Posts
    590

    Default

    First of all I could NOT find any "Acromatic" nozzles in the 200 gpm class, so I will assume everything is turbojets with a setting at 200 gpm at 100 psi. By calculating the flow (200) at 100 psi. the nominal round orfice for this nozzle is 0.818" or about 13/16ths.
    For the 150 ft. PC of 1 3/4" hose the following conditions exist at 150 psi EP. Nozzle flow will be 190 gpm. Nozzle pressure will be 90 psi. Effective reach (per Theobald) will be 90 feet, and the reaction force of the nozzle will be 95 lbs. These numbers are based upon Ponn Supreme or Neidner 1 3/4" hose and does NOT include any loss for elbows or Chicksan swivels in the pump house. When applying water to an interior the attack crew is subjected to the weight of full gear, breathing apparatus, Hose & water weight plus the reaction force. The work-load on a firefighter should be kept somewhere under 80 lbs, so withGear and B/A coming in at about 35 lbs, then the hose, nozzle and water weight plus the reaction total needs to be under 45 lbs per man. For 1 3/4" hose there is about one cubic foot of water per 100 ft, so the last 25 ft weighs 16 lbs, add 6 lbs for the nozzle and 12 lbs for the hose divided between 2 men. (17 lbs per man) finally the reaction force with the line open on straight stream is 95 lbs. (47 per man) So each man in the attack crew is working a load of 99 pounds. Lest you think I digress.. There is a previous comment about reducing the flow rate to make the line easier to handle.
    For the 200 ft. preconnect at 150 psi pump pressure: Nozzle pressure will be 79 psi. delivering 179 gpm with a friction loss of 71 psi. Effective reach will be 85 ft. and the reaction force will be 83 pounds. Incidentally I take issue with Akron's tables for effective reach, because they DO NOT measure the amount of water entering a 20" circle, but simply measure the maximum distance water can be hurled in still air and an unobstructed condition. When was the last time you were on a worker with an unlimited ceiling height? There was also a previous post reference to eliminating AUTOMATIC nozzles. I strenuously disagree with the poster. Proper supply pressures are equally as important on fixed gallonage, adjustable gallonage or automatic nozzles. The problem with automatics is the average (nearly all) nozzle operators can't tell the difference between 50 gpm or 250 gpm when the nozzle pressure is truely 100 psi. They both LOOK the same, but are dramatically different in their extinguishing power. The advantage of the automatic is its ability to keep the velocity of the exiting water the same and thus compensate for pump pressure/volume/friction loss, but still provide a good amount of reach that is consistent. We can take advantage of this by allowing the nozzleman to increase the friction loss (partially open valve) while navigating difficult room or stair conditions, and then when footing and line support are available open up fully and deliver larger volumes of water when needed. Key is to teach the pump operator to over-supply and the nozzleman how to adjust for changing conditions. Now it is time for me to shut-up and weather the storm.

  12. #12
    Forum Member
    FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    10,171

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kuh shise View Post
    First of all I could NOT find any "Acromatic" nozzles in the 200 gpm class, so I will assume everything is turbojets with a setting at 200 gpm at 100 psi.
    You can't find them listed anywhere because Akron stopped making them years ago. They bailed out of the handline automatic nozzle business and only make the Akromatic in Master Stream size now. So the fact is he could absolutely have Akromatic handline nozzles. Quite possible the worst automatic nozzle ever made. Bulky, heavy, and then add that some models came with a gpm control ring like the turbojet and it was just plain AWFUL.

    There was also a previous post reference to eliminating AUTOMATIC nozzles. I strenuously disagree with the poster. Proper supply pressures are equally as important on fixed gallonage, adjustable gallonage or automatic nozzles. The problem with automatics is the average (nearly all) nozzle operators can't tell the difference between 50 gpm or 250 gpm when the nozzle pressure is truely 100 psi. They both LOOK the same, but are dramatically different in their extinguishing power. The advantage of the automatic is its ability to keep the velocity of the exiting water the same and thus compensate for pump pressure/volume/friction loss, but still provide a good amount of reach that is consistent. We can take advantage of this by allowing the nozzleman to increase the friction loss (partially open valve) while navigating difficult room or stair conditions, and then when footing and line support are available open up fully and deliver larger volumes of water when needed.
    You can disagree all you want with anyone wishing to eliminate automatic nozzles but all of the problems you listed are eliminated with a single gallonage/single pressure nozzle. Too many times people are spending far too much money on automatic nozzles and then realizing the pipe dream of higher flows is simply not happening. Even when pumping to flow in excess of 200 gpm you will oft times find nozzle operators gating down to reduce back pressure. Why pump a flow that nozzle operators never actually flow? The truth is with a single gallonage/single pressure nozzle you know right away if the pressure of gpms is inadequate because the stream looks like crap. With an automatic the baffle adjusts down so that even an inadequte stream looks good. After all that is what the original automatic nozzle was designed to do anyways, make a GOOD looking stream at whatever the flow, not necessarily an effective fire stream. Further you can gate down a single gallonage/single pressure nozzle to allow for an easier advance, the only difference is the stream is broken up. Your idea that reach is more important than flow is the kind of stuff that gets people hurt. Reach doesn't mean jack if we aren't flowing enough water to kill the fire. Further reach inside most buildings is highly over rated. How much reach do we really need in the average home? 30 feet? Same with inside a business...50 feet? I'll give up a few feet of reach to get a flow rate that will kill the fire.

    Automatic nozzles are not evil in their own right. But the issue is most firefighters have no clue how they work and how to make them work to their advantage. Follow that up with the good old boy pump operator that says "I'll just give them 120 psi so the line is easier to handle" and you have a recipe for disaster. Salespeople back in the 70's misrepresented what automatic nozzles could do, hell they outright lied at times. "Put this nozzle on your 1 3/4 inch hose and you can flow 300 gpm." Sure you can if you pumped your 200 foot preconnect to almost 400 psi engine pressure.

    I admit I am no fan of automatic nozzles, not because they don't do what they are supposed to do, but because uneducated firefighters, mpo's and officers won't let them.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  13. #13
    MembersZone Subscriber
    tree68's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Jefferson County, NY USA
    Posts
    2,303

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Follow that up with the good old boy pump operator that says "I'll just give them 120 psi so the line is easier to handle" ...
    As opposed to the pump operator we once had (or so I've been told) that figured the governor was there for a reason...

    Or those pump operators that crank it up until the nozzleman clears the ground, then backs it off until he just touches again...

    Smoothbores are no panacea if the pump operator doesn't understand them, either. Seen that with my own eyes.
    Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

    Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

  14. #14
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    2,048

    Default

    agreed with fyredup on the auto nozzles -if you have "set it and forget it" pump operators, they are by far the worst choice. An underpumped auto will still produce a decent looking stream, a standard combo of smooth bore will tend to "slobber" -
    ?

  15. #15
    Forum Member
    FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    10,171

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tree68 View Post
    As opposed to the pump operator we once had (or so I've been told) that figured the governor was there for a reason...

    A **** poor pump operator is a **** poor pump operator whether he underpumps, overpumps, or can't pump at all.

    Or those pump operators that crank it up until the nozzleman clears the ground, then backs it off until he just touches again...

    Worked on lines pumped by these guys before.

    Smoothbores are no panacea if the pump operator doesn't understand them, either. Seen that with my own eyes.

    Golly, I don't think I mentioned smooth bores at all. I said single gallonage/single pressure which could be a single gallonage combo nozzle designed for a specific single pressure or a smoothbore.
    We made it idiot proof for our pump operators and put label tape at our preconnect gauges for specific flows and the accompanying engine pressure. We flow tested so we know what we are flowing. The reasons most don't do that is 1) Complacency, we have always done it this way, 2) Laziness, why do it enough water comes out and the fire goes out, 3) They don't know how, 4) they don't have the equipment. It does take some thought and effort to do it right.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  16. #16
    Forum Member
    CaptOldTimer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 1999
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    7,257

    Default

    Maybe LA Fire will provide his assessment and theory on this. Standing by for his response.
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

  17. #17
    Forum Member
    FWDbuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Pee-Ayy!
    Posts
    7,411

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    Maybe LA Fire will provide his assessment and theory on this. Standing by for his response.
    Did you have to? I like you but right now I want to punch the schit outta you.....LOL
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  18. #18
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    11

    Default

    ok guys, im beginning to understand. i think...

    but one more question.

    If the automatic nozzle is supposed to maintain a content pressure through a range of GPM from anywhere from 100 GPM to 200GPM the opening and closing of the baffle, how do you really know what youre flowing?

    I ask because, im finding out as stated that the nozzle will make 100gpm look as good as 200gpm and effectively there is no way to tell what the hell youre flowing if you do like we do and run the nozzle setting at 200gpm.

    how do i make sure i have the optimum 100 psi at the nozzle when friction loss is directly related to GPM and i have no idea what my GPM is?

    make sense?

  19. #19
    Forum Member
    FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    10,171

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FlatHeadAx View Post
    ok guys, im beginning to understand. i think...

    but one more question.

    If the automatic nozzle is supposed to maintain a content pressure through a range of GPM from anywhere from 100 GPM to 200GPM the opening and closing of the baffle, how do you really know what youre flowing?

    Unless you have flow meters on the pump panel, OR you have borrowed a flow meter and ran tests you really have absolutely no way of knowing what you are flowing. Sorry, but it is really that simple. Using friction loss formulas may get you close, but not 100% accurate.

    I ask because, im finding out as stated that the nozzle will make 100gpm look as good as 200gpm and effectively there is no way to tell what the hell youre flowing if you do like we do and run the nozzle setting at 200gpm.

    Therein lies the problem with the automatic nozzle, and if you knew the history of the first automatic nozzles you would understand that. They were built to make a good LOOKING stream until enough water could be supplied to make it an effective stream. People equate a pretty looking hose stream with an effective one and there is really no correlation between the two. An insufficient flow that looks good is ineffective as a fire stream, and a sufficient flow that is a crappy stream with n reach is ineffective as a fire stream.

    how do i make sure i have the optimum 100 psi at the nozzle when friction loss is directly related to GPM and i have no idea what my GPM is?

    The only way to do it without flow meters is to do friction loss formulas to come up with the friction loss per hundred feet of your hose size, and add that to the nozzle pressure.

    C(QXQ)L is the friction loss formula.

    C=15.5 for 1 3/4 inch hose
    Q=GPM/100
    L=Length of the hoseline/100

    So if we have a 200 foot long 1 3/4 inch line flowing 150 gpm the formula would read 15.5(1.5x1.5)2=69.75. So theoretically the friction loss is 70 psi in 200 feet of 1 3/4 inch line flowing 150 gpm. So in order to make your 100psi TFTswork to flow 150 gpm you need to pump 170 psi engine pressure. This of course does not take into account any possible friction loss in the piping for the preconnect.


    make sense?

    Sure!
    let me know if you need this explained better.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  20. #20
    Forum Member
    FWDbuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Pee-Ayy!
    Posts
    7,411

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    let me know if you need this explained better.
    Explanation: Buy 7/8ths inch smoothbore nozzles and all your problems go away. Deliver maximum amount of GPM to the seat of the fire in an efficient, orderly military manner thus absorbing the most BTU's the fastest, hence creating less water damage with the fire going out much faster than with the automagic nozzles. Oh, and with a lower nozzle pressure too! Hot damn!!!! Just dont get the pistol grips!!!
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  21. #21
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,629

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    Maybe LA Fire will provide his assessment and theory on this. Standing by for his response.
    No input.

    Combo department uses only automatics which are pumped at 144psi, and it is unlikely hat we will ever use anything but automatics.

    Smooth bores are carried for rating purposes only, which is very typical of the state as a whole.

    Volunteer department uses automatics on all 1.75" lines and are underpumped at 120psi at the panel.
    Same with 2.5" 200' automatic preconnects.

    There has been some serious discussion regarding switching one line to a smooth-bore, but has not been implemented as of yet.

    100' 2.5" smooth bore transitional line is pumped at 65 psi.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  22. #22
    Forum Member
    FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    10,171

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    No input.

    Combo department uses only automatics which are pumped at 144psi, and it is unlikely hat we will ever use anything but automatics.

    Assuming a 200 foot 1 3/4 inch line you are flowing roughly 120 gpm, assuming minimal friction loss in piping on the engine.

    Smooth bores are carried for rating purposes only, which is very typical of the state as a whole.

    Not surprised they aren't used there.

    Volunteer department uses automatics on all 1.75" lines and are underpumped at 120psi at the panel.
    Same with 2.5" 200' automatic preconnects.

    If what you are sayng is right and you are pumping 120 through 200 feet of 1 3/4 inch line you are getting less than 60 gpm at the nozzle. For your 2 1/2 lines you are getting around 225 gpm.



    There has been some serious discussion regarding switching one line to a smooth-bore, but has not been implemented as of yet.

    If you don't pump it right it won't be any better than what you aren't pumping right now.

    100' 2.5" smooth bore transitional line is pumped at 65 psi.

    What size tip?
    Time for a hydraulics class and some checking flows with a flow meter.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  23. #23
    Forum Member
    conrad427's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Just south of Canada
    Posts
    561

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Explanation: Buy 7/8ths inch smoothbore nozzles and all your problems go away. Deliver maximum amount of GPM to the seat of the fire in an efficient, orderly military manner thus absorbing the most BTU's the fastest, hence creating less water damage with the fire going out much faster than with the automagic nozzles. Oh, and with a lower nozzle pressure too! Hot damn!!!! Just dont get the pistol grips!!!
    Not that it is a big deal, and I understand that putting out the fire is the most important thing, but you cant hydraulically ventilate with a smooth bore can you?
    The fire service is about service to our fellow man.
    There is a trust that must not be broken and we are the keepers of that trust.
    Captain Dave LeBlanc

  24. #24
    Forum Member
    FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    10,171

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    Not that it is a big deal, and I understand that putting out the fire is the most important thing, but you cant hydraulically ventilate with a smooth bore can you?
    Yes you can. Open the bale about half way to get a broken stream to spray out the window. It is not as effective as a fog nozzle but it does work.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  25. #25
    Forum Member
    FWDbuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Pee-Ayy!
    Posts
    7,411

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    Not that it is a big deal, and I understand that putting out the fire is the most important thing, but you cant hydraulically ventilate with a smooth bore can you?
    That's what your (hopefully aggressive and well-trained) Truck Company is for, Kid.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 02-10-2012, 02:19 PM
  2. Pump discharge pressure for highris.
    By BIG PAULIE in forum Fireground Tactics
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 07-07-2007, 11:38 PM
  3. Pump discharge pressure
    By smokeatr2000 in forum The Engineer
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 07-21-2006, 01:17 AM
  4. high pressure fire pump question
    By jasoncfd33 in forum The Engineer
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 04-17-2006, 08:22 PM
  5. Question on FDNY pump operations
    By BIG PAULIE in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 03-01-2001, 12:55 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register