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Thread: Alcohol and fire trucks...not a winning combo...

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    And you are supporting allowing a guy to drink in the firehouse, get into his pov and drive home after that...Yeah, there will never be an issue with that. You have been drinking so you can't go to this call, now get in your car and go home...What a complete F***ING Joke you are Bobby.
    That is exactly my problem with it. And that is why my department has a no alcohol policy at all of our functions. We don't want firefighters or anyone else coming to the fire hall, one of our events, or anything we are associated with, drinking, then driving home. No matter what safety precautions you take, that is a real danger and a real possibility. One wreck and the FD is getting some papers in the mail and a giant public black eye.

    The pitfalls and hazards with drinking at the fire hall are far, far greater than anything happening on the fire scene. In 2010, there were 2.33 firefighter fatalities for every 100,000 fire incidents. There were 3 fatalities from drunk driving for every 100,000 people (10,228 people killed in 2010).

    If we are talking safety, it would seem like the biggest step in safety would be to remove the highest risk/lowest reward activities first. In my book, that would be alcohol at the fire hall.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ToDaRoof View Post
    Because you take more pride in something just because the people there do it for free, instead of the agency that pays your bills and probably wasn't easy to get into. I have pride and respect for most of the members in my vollie house, but I don't hold them in a higher regard than my paid house or my brothers there, especially over pay status. You do. If you don't have more pride in your paying gig than you do in your vollie one, you need to quit. It's not a career vs. volunteer thing (which you'll undoubtedly try to spin this into), it's a matter of placing the things of importance in life into the proper order. Here's a question for you, if your career gig told you that you couldn't volunteer anymore for fear of getting hurt and being unable to come to work, would you quit your job or your vollie house?
    Importance and pride are two very different things.

    I have the same amount of pride in both my career and volunteer departments.

    In terms of importance, yes, from the financial end, my full-time gig is more important. I have already told my VFD, as an example, that in the event of natural disaster hitting both communities, I would be required to respond in off-duty to my combo department.

    But that has nothing to do with pride. That has to do with the requirements of the job.

    As far as status, yes, I hold the members at my volunteer house at a higher regard than my career brothers, because they have made this commitment in addition to holding a full-time gig. And that is not a career v. volunteer thing either.
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    Who without the PAID AMA department wouldn't go inside to extinguish a fire ever. Who can't gurantee any response at all of firefighters or officers, and who can't guarantee that if you do respond that you will have anyone capable of performing a rescue. Yeah I'd be proud of that too

    I'm proud of their commitment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    \

    I have the same amount of pride in both my career and volunteer departments.
    Post #34 on this thread... from your fingetips on the keyboard to God's ears...

    And yes, I do have more pride in my volunteer department, because they are volunteers.
    Contort yourself out of that!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    Quote Originally Posted by WVFD705 View Post
    That is exactly my problem with it. And that is why my department has a no alcohol policy at all of our functions. We don't want firefighters or anyone else coming to the fire hall, one of our events, or anything we are associated with, drinking, then driving home. No matter what safety precautions you take, that is a real danger and a real possibility. One wreck and the FD is getting some papers in the mail and a giant public black eye.

    The pitfalls and hazards with drinking at the fire hall are far, far greater than anything happening on the fire scene. In 2010, there were 2.33 firefighter fatalities for every 100,000 fire incidents. There were 3 fatalities from drunk driving for every 100,000 people (10,228 people killed in 2010).

    If we are talking safety, it would seem like the biggest step in safety would be to remove the highest risk/lowest reward activities first. In my book, that would be alcohol at the fire hall.
    And that is a potential issue.

    I also clearly stated that I would not support allowing drinking in either of my current departments. And both of them currently have zero alcohol policies.

    My only point was that I would not bash any department that does not have such policies as it is an internal decision that could be affected by a number of local circumstances.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    Post #34 on this thread... from your fingetips on the keyboard to God's ears...



    Contort yourself out of that!
    Does it really matter.

    I have equal pride in both departments.

    But I have more respect for my volunteers.
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    I haven't been on here for a long time and most of the time I just browse. BUT, did someone just say that he left his job where he is employed as a "firefighter" to go put out a fire for his VFD? And his DC allowed it???????
    Both should be fired on the spot, you get paid to provide fire protection by taxpayers and you leave them hanging to go get your rocks off at your vollie gig and your DC is supposed to make sure you do your job. It's neglect of duty, You are both miserable failures and have no business calling your selves anything other than clowns.
    No disrespect meant towards the vollies that actually take fire protection and life safety serious, I know plenty that are great examples and I am proud to call them brothers.
    LA, Don't even bother defending yourself to me because I don't care about your opinion.

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    I can understand the alcohol at departments that have a separate hall that is rented out as a fund raising venture. However the private renter should be the one serving the alcohol and getting the proper serving licenses. the fire department should not have any involvment other then owning the social hall.

    If it is a fire department function that is serving alcohol it should be removed from the actual operations and not in a firehouse. To this I am referring to the dinners at regional fire schools yearly banquets etc

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Does it really matter.

    I have equal pride in both departments.

    But I have more respect for my volunteers.
    Yes it matters... once again, you are lying and trying to backpedal on statements you made.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    Yes it matters... once again, you are lying and trying to backpedal on statements you made.
    Yup, you're right.

    Which members I take more pride in being around and have in is one of those critical things in life.

    I enjoy being around both, but it takes far more commitment to be a volunteer than to be a career member, and as such, I take more pride in being around volunteers than being around career members.

    And that's not a career v. volunteer thing. It's just that I have much more pride in what I have accomplished as a volunteer compared to my accomplishments as a career member, and would much prefer to be remembered when I die as a volunteer member than as a career member.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 06-26-2013 at 12:46 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Yup, you're right.

    Which members I take more pride in being around and have in is one of those critical things in life.

    I enjoy being around both, but it takes far more commitment to be a volunteer than to be a career member, and as such, I take more pride in being around volunteers than being around career members.

    And that's not a career v. volunteer thing. It's just that I would much prefer to be remembered when I die as a volunteer member than as a career member.
    Your legacy will be that of the clueless guy on Firehouse.com who would let a child burn to death in a car fire as a result of a vehicle collision because "it's not my jurisdiction, not my problem".

    Your legacy will be that of the mooch who waits for the mutual aid engine company to go inside and fight the fire because it is too dangerous for your people to go inside.

    Your legacy will be that of a perpetual yardbreather.

    Your legacy will be that of the guy who makes snap judgements about someone not being home based on no car in the driveway or a garbage can out in front on trash collection day while someone gets overcome buy smoke or burns to death due to your inactions.

    Your legacy will be that you thought you were God's gift to the fire service sent to save us from ourselves... but everybody else thought you're an a..hole.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    Your legacy will be that of the clueless guy on Firehouse.com who would let a child burn to death in a car fire as a result of a vehicle collision because "it's not my jurisdiction, not my problem".

    Your legacy will be that of the mooch who waits for the mutual aid engine company to go inside and fight the fire because it is too dangerous for your people to go inside.

    Your legacy will be that of a perpetual yardbreather.

    Your legacy will be that of the guy who makes snap judgements about someone not being home based on no car in the driveway or a garbage can out in front on trash collection day while someone gets overcome buy smoke or burns to death due to your inactions.

    Your legacy will be that you thought you were God's gift to the fire service sent to save us from ourselves... but everybody else thought you're an a..hole.
    Actually, No.
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    Actually, yes.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I enjoy being around both, but it takes far more commitment to be a volunteer than to be a career member, and as such, I take more pride in being around volunteers than being around career members.
    You truly are a fool. Far more commitment to be a volunteer than to be a career? Really? Do you even know what it takes to earn a job with a career department?

    When I applied for my position and tested, I was one of almost 10,000 applicants. I spent years and dollars in college to make myself marketable and more employable. All on my own dime and time. Once I was fortunate to be hired, I needed to make it thru sixteen weeks of intense physical work; and it was work. There was no picking and choosing what I wanted to do. If there were aches and pains, there was no opting out. It was some of the most intense work I have done, both physically and mentally. Fifteen people out of the forty I was hired with were released during recruit school.
    You think I'm the only one who has a story like this? I know for a fact you don't; you wouldn't make it, thankfully. I'm not even talking about the number of applications I filled out and tests I took in which I was not hired. It is a long list.

    Career jobs, for the most part are earned, not just handed out because you need to fill a spot on the roster, like your "vollie gig". But, whatever; keep selling and trying to justify it to yourself.

    By the way, I'm not trying to disparage any volunteer members out there. There are many who are dedicated and in this field for the right reasons. There is one bonehead who is trying to constantly keep this rif alive.
    It took a tremendous amount of time, energy , money and dedication for me to earn my career. I will not sit and let some idiot that doesn't know what they're talking about claim it takes more dedication to be a volunteer. Especially when their attitude towards this field is what it is.

    Sometimes you just have to shake your head.
    Last edited by Jasper 45; 06-26-2013 at 01:01 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasper 45 View Post
    You truly are a fool. Far more commitment to be a volunteer than to be a career? Really? Do you even know what it takes to earn a job with a career department?

    When I applied for my position and tested, I was one of almost 10,000 applicants. I spent years and dollars in college to make myself marketable and more employable. All on my own dime and time. Once I was fortunate to be hired, I needed to make it thru sixteen weeks of intense physical work; and it was work. There was no picking and choosing what I wanted to do. If there were aches and pains, there was no opting out. It was some of the most intense work I have done, both physically and mentally. Fifteen people out of the forty I was hired with were released during recruit school.
    You think I'm the only one who has a story like this? I know for a fact you don't; you wouldn't make it, thankfully. I'm not even talking about the number of applications I filled out and tests I took in which I was not hired. It is a long list.

    Career jobs, for the most part are earned, not just handed out because you need to fill a spot on the roster, like your "vollie gig". But, whatever; keep selling and trying to justify it to yourself.

    By the way, I'm not trying to disparage any volunteer members out there. There are many who are dedicated and in this field for the right reasons. There is one bonehead who is trying to constantly keep this rif alive.
    It took a tremendous amount of time, energy , money and dedication for me to earn my career. I will not sit and let some idiot that doesn't know what they're talking about claim it takes more dedication to be a volunteer. Especially when their attitude towards this field is what it is.

    Sometimes you just have to shake your head.
    And that was not meant to me a slam.

    But there have been many volunteers that have spent the same amount of time taking classes to prepare and operate as a firefighter. And unlike career members, they are paid to attend the academy.

    There is one important difference though.

    Career members are paid to respond. It's their job. It's scheduled. And when the shift is over they can go home.

    When a volunteer responds, it's usually in addition to work. They respond, unscheduled, when at home with their families. When the fire comes in at 1AM and they clear at 5, they still have to go to work. Most don't have the luxury of calling in.

    Nowhere in my post did I slam career members, but to me, the dedication required to work full-time and is what makes me proud about my volunteer past, and causes me greater pride in the VFDs that I have been associated with than my current combo department.

    And no, it's not about the money, or not about the fact that it's a job. It's about the time in addition to working full-time.

    As I said, I am prouder of my volunteer involvement than my career gig. I want to be remembered primarily as a volunteer member.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Which members I take more pride in being around and have in is one of those critical things in life.
    No no no no. You see Bobby, old buddy old pal, you need to dig DEEPER into what is being said... It's like an onion, or an Ogre Bobby. The post has layers...

    I couldn't give any less of a schitt what you think about either of your departments, that part doesn't matter to me. See, what the big issue here, and what that post clearly points out, is your constant tactic of changing what you say, posting more than one story or more than one version of a story, and then backpeddling trying to cover you azz and make it sound like you didn't say two different things.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And that was not meant to me a slam.

    Bull sh it you didn't intend it as a slam. Every letter of the post was meant as a slam. Your posts reek continually of slamming the career service and the work we do. You say we get paid to train; in some instances, yes. However, the dedication it took to get thru recruit school is something you know nothing of. I guarantee you wouldn't have made it thru; it took heart and dedication.
    Beside the point, after reading what goes on with your "volly gig", it takes no time and no training. At least that is your portrayal of it. After all, a vollie's time is too valuable to actually make train. It's what you've thrown all over these boards.

    Don't forget, we have to master all aspects of our job, or we're out of a job. No picking and choosing; and yes, that involves doing stuff on our off time, occasionally. If you want to compare responsibilities and expectations for our service levels compared to yours, feel free. Because you threw it out there, I will say it took more dedication to get where I'm at than you. I take pride in that accomplishment. I had to beat out hundreds, if not thousands of others to get here; your turn.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasper 45 View Post
    Bull sh it you didn't intend it as a slam. Every letter of the post was meant as a slam. Your posts reek continually of slamming the career service and the work we do. You say we get paid to train; in some instances, yes. However, the dedication it took to get thru recruit school is something you know nothing of. I guarantee you wouldn't have made it thru; it took heart and dedication.
    Beside the point, after reading what goes on with your "volly gig", it takes no time and no training. At least that is your portrayal of it. After all, a vollie's time is too valuable to actually make train. It's what you've thrown all over these boards.

    Don't forget, we have to master all aspects of our job, or we're out of a job. No picking and choosing; and yes, that involves doing stuff on our off time, occasionally. If you want to compare responsibilities and expectations for our service levels compared to yours, feel free. Because you threw it out there, I will say it took more dedication to get where I'm at than you. I take pride in that accomplishment. I had to beat out hundreds, if not thousands of others to get here; your turn.
    Again, I likely have taken just as many classes as you over my 33 years, with the vast majority of them on my own time, except for the academy which was a paid gig, and yes, that fact matters. That's not a slam, but it's a fact that you were paid to receive your basic training. Volunteers aren't.

    And I such, I personally hold volunteer members in higher esteem than career members. And as I such, I enjoy being around volunteers far more than I enjoy being around career members and have more personal respect for volunteer members. That is a personal preference, not a slam.

    Career members have an expectation to do the job when being paid. No different than if you were working at WalMart, Pizza Hut or construction. And yes, volunteers do get to "pick and Choose" given that they do not have a duty to act, and they are not being paid with the expectation to perform.

    To get where I am right now in my career gig, I worked hard and had to take specific training and have specific certifications. But I worked harder to become a volunteer member.

    I'm sorry that you are offended by my personal opinion that to me, I want to remembered as a vollie, not as a career member, as to me, they are the part of the fire service that exemplifies dedication.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I'm sorry that you are offended by my personal opinion that to me, I want to remembered as a vollie, not as a career member, as to me, they are the part of the fire service that exemplifies dedication.
    And all along, I just wanted to be remembered as a good fireman. You know, someone that guys looked forward to working with because of being competent, trustworthy...you continue to dazzle and amaze...yeah, I know guys like you. They're very easy to pick out.

    Me, offended by your opinion? Hardly. The only thing that offends me is your approach to firefighting and the cavalier approach you take to something many of us chose to master, as our life's profession. The day your opinion of me matters is the day I need to leave this job. You've demonstrated over and over and over again that we are nothing close to each other.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasper 45 View Post
    And all along, I just wanted to be remembered as a good fireman. You know, someone that guys looked forward to working with because of being competent, trustworthy.
    BOOM. That's it right there. In my opinion, that's all it boils down to.

    I want to be remembered as a good fireman. Courageous, knowledgeable, and willing to help.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Again, I likely have taken just as many classes as you over my 33 years, with the vast majority of them on my own time, except for the academy which was a paid gig, and yes, that fact matters. That's not a slam, but it's a fact that you were paid to receive your basic training. Volunteers aren't.

    And I such, I personally hold volunteer members in higher esteem than career members. And as I such, I enjoy being around volunteers far more than I enjoy being around career members and have more personal respect for volunteer members. That is a personal preference, not a slam.

    Career members have an expectation to do the job when being paid. No different than if you were working at WalMart, Pizza Hut or construction. And yes, volunteers do get to "pick and Choose" given that they do not have a duty to act, and they are not being paid with the expectation to perform.

    To get where I am right now in my career gig, I worked hard and had to take specific training and have specific certifications. But I worked harder to become a volunteer member.

    I'm sorry that you are offended by my personal opinion that to me, I want to remembered as a vollie, not as a career member, as to me, they are the part of the fire service that exemplifies dedication.
    Actually, in lots of places it takes absolutely no dedication to be a volunteer firefighter. In my dept. it only takes 30 hours a year to be in good standing. I would not take any pride to be in a silly social club that has no duty to act and feel that because they are not being paid there is no expectation to perform. The members of the local Rotary club have a higher level of dedication to their fellow man than you. When I get beat to death by a group of Amazon women, if all they say at the funeral is that I was a good father, husband and firefighter, that will be enough.

    Oh and to get back on topic, No booze at the firehouse, not ever.
    Last edited by conrad427; 06-26-2013 at 03:29 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Again, I likely have taken just as many classes as you over my 33 years, with the vast majority of them on my own time, except for the academy which was a paid gig, and yes, that fact matters. That's not a slam, but it's a fact that you were paid to receive your basic training. Volunteers aren't.
    So... you went to an Academy and got paid? It appears you learned nothing and the community wasted their money.

    And I such, I personally hold volunteer members in higher esteem than career members. And as I such, I enjoy being around volunteers far more than I enjoy being around career members and have more personal respect for volunteer members. That is a personal preference, not a slam.
    Actually, it is a slam against career guys. You enjoy being around the volunteers becuase you have managed to flim flam, bamboozle and con them into thinking you are a "real firefighter because of your "paid gig" and doing thre volie thinh out of altrusitic reasons. The only reason is to puff up your overly inflated ego and satisfy your craving for attention.

    Career members have an expectation to do the job when being paid. No different than if you were working at WalMart, Pizza Hut or construction. And yes, volunteers do get to "pick and Choose" given that they do not have a duty to act, and they are not being paid with the expectation to perform.
    Volunteers know what they signed up for when they joined the FD. Professionalism is an attitude, not a paycheck, and if you pick and choose, such as only going to false alarms instead of working fires, think that EMS is someone else's mess, you are not a professional. You are nothing but a a poseur, an imposter and a charlatan in turnout gear.


    To get where I am right now in my career gig, I worked hard and had to take specific training and have specific certifications. But I worked harder to become a volunteer member.
    Blah blah blah.... same old rhetoric...

    I'm sorry that you are offended by my personal opinion that to me, I want to remembered as a vollie, not as a career member, as to me, they are the part of the fire service that exemplifies dedication.

    Blah blah blah.... same old rhetoric...
    Last edited by DeputyChiefGonzo; 06-26-2013 at 03:50 PM.
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    Aww LA, I shed tears during that speech... Because I was laughing so hard.
    Seriously, just quit your job and be the best vollie you can be. You'll have enough free time to handle all of the issues there, and may even make Chief *shudders*. I bet nobody from your paid gig will remember you after the position gets filled by someone who wants to be there, anyways.

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    So... you went to an Academy and got paid? It appears you learned nothing and the community wasted their money.

    No, I never attended an academy. That section was written poorly.

    However, I did have to have FFI, FFII and EMT-B before I could apply here, which I got on my own time, which was the point.

    In addition, for this specific job, I was also required to have Fire and Life safety Educator I & II, again, on my own time.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Just an update on the story I was talking about earlier, The Chief was ousted by the council because he would not allow alcohol at the firehouse during civic events. Eleven or so firefighters followed him out. A judge re-instated the Chief because he agreed that there should be no booze at the house. Well, the council ousted him again and plans on replacing him with a new Chief, who will allow drunken buffoonery at the station.

    So, the council wants booze at the firehouse, but I will bet you still cant have a drunken party at a church.

    What a bunch of muppets. Sometimes we have to be professional, even if the townsfolk don't want us to be. How is it that the only culture change LA doesn't want is the culture of drunk volunteers?

    We should have a culture change, a change to professional volunteers.
    Last edited by conrad427; 06-26-2013 at 04:14 PM.
    The fire service is about service to our fellow man.
    There is a trust that must not be broken and we are the keepers of that trust.
    Captain Dave LeBlanc

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