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Thread: Lt. Ray McCormack.. batting 1.000...

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    LAFE says:
    ....."if the door has been left open there will likely be smoke throughout the house.......there is a high likelihood that they are not viable".

    This is not true for occupants who may be in another room behind a closed door. Even if fire has extended out of original fire room, a closed door can provide protection for occupants. Temperatures and CO levels can be low enough for survival.

    This comes from the recent NIST/UL research.
    Last edited by captnjak; 06-24-2013 at 03:48 PM.
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    ToDaRoof,
    The latest NIST/UL research contradicts this. Applying water into the structure, even if it does not hit main body of fire, lowers temperatures throughout structure improving conditions and increasing survival time for occupants.
    Short burst is not the way to go. Use straight stream and hit ceiling thru window; do it long enough to darken down fire.
    No comment on this "reset" thing because I'm not familiar with the term, but it sounds like half a measure.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by captnjak View Post
    ToDaRoof,
    The latest NIST/UL research contradicts this. Applying water into the structure, even if it does not hit main body of fire, lowers temperatures throughout structure improving conditions and increasing survival time for occupants.
    Short burst is not the way to go. Use straight stream and hit ceiling thru window; do it long enough to darken down fire.
    No comment on this "reset" thing because I'm not familiar with the term, but it sounds like half a measure.
    We're on the same page, just saying it two different ways. The short burst I was referring to is around 30 seconds, like you said, lowering the overall temp and effectively "resetting" fire development from pre-flash back into growth. We're not looking to knock the fire from outside, but to get conditions to a tenable state where we can hopefully make a grab, and put a kill shot on what's left from inside. Sorry for any confusion.
    "I am an aggressive firefighter, and that is not an apology."

    FTM-PTB-RFB-EGH-KTF

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    10-4, same page.

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    Quote Originally Posted by captnjak View Post
    LAFE says:
    ....."if the door has been left open there will likely be smoke throughout the house.......there is a high likelihood that they are not viable".

    This is not true for occupants who may be in another room behind a closed door. Even if fire has extended out of original fire room, a closed door can provide protection for occupants. Temperatures and CO levels can be low enough for survival.

    This comes from the recent NIST/UL research.
    And again, if I have enough of my department's manpower on scene initially to safely perform a search and rescue, I will.

    If I don't, I'll wait for the AMA engine as assign that to them when they arrive.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    Jusssttttt keeeeppppp backpedaling......

    Attachment 22932
    What exactly am I backpeddeling on?

    It's very simple...

    If I don't have enough of my own manpower to safely operate interior, the initial fire attack will be through the window or a door from the exterior.

    The AMA engine will then be assigned interior attack.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    And what happens when they don't? What happens when you're the IC at an incident where something happens out of left field that no one could have seen coming, and one of your members gets hurt or killed. What then? Are you telling your personnel and their families that they're going to come home uninjured every time? You can't guarantee that, at all.

    I think everyone on the department is aware that the unexpected can occur, but they know that I will not put them in a position where there is a significant probability of injury or put them into a situation that we are short staffed or undertrained to handle, and yes, that includes initial interior operations with insufficient manpower.


    What happens when your overweight, out of shape exterior member collapses from a heart attack? Sure he went home "uninjured" but he's still friggin dead... What then?

    And to some degree that's personal responsibility. But right now we have no exterior members that has that issue.

    What happens when you do EVERYTHING by your standards, by your mindset, with what you've deemed the appropriate number of personnel, apparatus, hoselines, interior firefighters, exterior firefighters, drivers, officers, etc, and something unexpected happens and someone dies or gets hurt? What then?

    Again, there is always the unexpected. The best that I can do is make decisions based on resources, training and experience and not put members where they do not need to be taking risks that simply are either not worth the risk or supported by the training, experience and resources on scene.

    If I do that, and something happens, I know that I did what I could do to keep them uninjured.


    What will you use to backup your claim that everyone of your members goes home uninjured everytime? Or is it only injuries that you're concerned with, and not death?

    Obviously concerned about both.

    As far as my "claim" as I said, I think every member knows that there are unpredictable things that happen.




    FINALLY, you feel like the rest of us do when we talk to you.

    Again it's very simple .....

    I don't care about putting out the fire and even making rescues as much as you, or many of the other regular posters do.

    And yes, I fully understand that it is a part of the job. However, so is assuring the safety of our members.

    I don't want to see buildings burn or people die, but I understand that in the rural environment the cards are stacked against the fire department, and in most cases, they will despite our best intentions or efforts.

    If we can do something to change it, I will, but that being said, I will not have my members injured or put them into situations that they are not trained for or experienced enough to manage intervening in situations that we are unlikely to be able to change the outcome.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 06-24-2013 at 05:16 PM.
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    Excellent video on acceptable risk:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjTwY...ature=youtu.be


    Maybe I'll start posting stuff by this guy.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post

    Again it's very simple .....

    I don't care about putting out the fire and even making rescues as much as you, or many of the other regular posters do.

    And yes, I fully understand that it is a part of the job. However, so is assuring the safety of our members.
    And this is where you "reset" yourself back to being an enima nozzle. The worst part is that you're in a position to teach this to young impressionable students.
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    IAFF

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    Quote Originally Posted by snowball View Post
    And this is where you "reset" yourself back to being an enima nozzle. The worst part is that you're in a position to teach this to young impressionable students.
    Do you know how hard it is to clean snot off of a computer screen? Well, its pretty hard. Dang it, I laughed hard at that.

    Why does it bother me that he refers to the volunteers as "members"? Hardly ever calls them firefighters, just members. Makes it sound like some fishy social club.
    The fire service is about service to our fellow man.
    There is a trust that must not be broken and we are the keepers of that trust.
    Captain Dave LeBlanc

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    Quote Originally Posted by lafireeducator View Post

    i don't care about putting out the fire and even making rescues as much as you, or many of the other regular posters do.
    then why are you even in the fire service?!?!
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowball View Post
    And this is where you "reset" yourself back to being an enima nozzle. The worst part is that you're in a position to teach this to young impressionable students.
    And yes, I will continue to teach that we are the priority, and that all fireground operations should occur secondary to that priority.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ToDaRoof View Post
    then why are you even in the fire service?!?!
    Because we can still make a difference, extinguish fires and perform rescues when those operations are supported by adequate training, experience, resources and command structure, and in the case of specialized rescue operations specialized and technical training, experience and specialized resources.

    And that the reward justifies the risk.

    Yes, we can still do our jobs but we have to remember that our lives do come first.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  14. #39
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    Just encourage everyone to quit and go home, you'll accomplish the same objective that way.
    "I am an aggressive firefighter, and that is not an apology."

    FTM-PTB-RFB-EGH-KTF

  15. #40
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    I didn't ask what you felt the purpose of the fire service was, I asked why you personally joined.
    "I am an aggressive firefighter, and that is not an apology."

    FTM-PTB-RFB-EGH-KTF

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And yes, I will continue to teach that we are the priority, and that all fireground operations should occur secondary to that priority.
    And they will read the trade magazines and go to websites like this, read the firefighter blogs on the internet, then read the bovine scat you post here and laugh at you...
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    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Because we can still make a difference, extinguish fires and perform rescues when those operations are supported by adequate training, experience, resources and command structure, and in the case of specialized rescue operations specialized and technical training, experience and specialized resources.

    And that the reward justifies the risk.

    Yes, we can still do our jobs but we have to remember that our lives do come first.
    Let me fix this entire post for you:

    Interior firefighting and rescues are done when the AMA engine arrives.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

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    AMA means "Automatic MOOCHual Aid" right?

    At least that is what we call it when a neighboring department cant get their poop in a group and rely completely on us because they spent the money unwisely.
    Last edited by conrad427; 06-24-2013 at 09:57 PM.
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    There is a trust that must not be broken and we are the keepers of that trust.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post

    Again it's very simple .....

    It absolutely is, you haven't got a single damn clue.

    I don't care about putting out the fire and even making rescues as much as you, or many of the other regular posters do.

    Let me fix this comment for you:

    I LAFE, don't care about putting out the fire and even making rescues as much as you, the real firefighters do.


    And yes, I fully understand that it is a part of the job. However, so is assuring the safety of our members.

    You have no clue about the JOB. If you did you wouldn't post the absolutely ridiculous BULL SCHITT that you do.

    I don't want to see buildings burn or people die, but I understand that in the rural environment the cards are stacked against the fire department, and in most cases, they will despite our best intentions or efforts.

    Intentions? Efforts? What the F*** ever. Until you honestly tell the board and the citizens how bad a situation the VFD finds itself in anything you say is Bull Schitt and excuses.


    If we can do something to change it, I will, but that being said, I will not have my members injured or put them into situations that they are not trained for or experienced enough to manage intervening in situations that we are unlikely to be able to change the outcome.


    More pathetic nonsense. Until you fess up to the board and citizens it means absolutely nothing.
    More of the same nonsense...
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Excellent video on acceptable risk:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjTwY...ature=youtu.be


    Maybe I'll start posting stuff by this guy.
    Made it through 22 minutes. If you think this is Excellent....it explains an awful lot about you.

    "Dr." Clark makes quite a few incorrect assumptions and misses (or leaves out) a lot of facts in his hypothesis and theories.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    I watched the whole damn thing. Thirty two minutes of my life I cant get back now. I cant say that I liked it much. Now I know how you guys feel when you read my posts.


    Well, my new signature sums up how I feel about this "Dr."
    Last edited by conrad427; 06-25-2013 at 12:47 AM.
    The fire service is about service to our fellow man.
    There is a trust that must not be broken and we are the keepers of that trust.
    Captain Dave LeBlanc

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Let me fix this entire post for you:

    Interior firefighting and rescues are done when the AMA engine arrives.
    ........ No.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Made it through 22 minutes. If you think this is Excellent....it explains an awful lot about you.

    "Dr." Clark makes quite a few incorrect assumptions and misses (or leaves out) a lot of facts in his hypothesis and theories.
    I think he's right on spot.

    Our culture needs to change.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I think he's right on spot.

    Our culture needs to change.
    Assumptions without looking into the facts is a dangerous path.

    Let's take a simple one, early on....he makes the assumption that seatbelt use is excluded from the law for firefighters because of a need to be fast. Did he check into the fact that many apparatus don't have seatbelts in them and the law would make all of those vehicles illegal in a matter of seconds? Nope. He made the assumption (incorrect) to fit his agenda.

    If he followed and used facts....he'd have a chance at some respect.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Assumptions without looking into the facts is a dangerous path.

    Let's take a simple one, early on....he makes the assumption that seatbelt use is excluded from the law for firefighters because of a need to be fast. Did he check into the fact that many apparatus don't have seatbelts in them and the law would make all of those vehicles illegal in a matter of seconds? Nope. He made the assumption (incorrect) to fit his agenda.

    Not going to disagree that in regards to that topic it may be the case, though in all honesty, I can't imagine that there are many apparatus still in service that do not have seatbelts, though you may still find some in rural areas.

    You can't disagree that there are members out there that do use speed as an excused for not wearing a seatbelt.




    If he followed and used facts....he'd have a chance at some respect.


    The fact is there are things in the fire service culture that he discussed that does lead to injuries and also leads to a culture that says injuries, and LODDs, are OK, and a part of the job.

    I know there will be those that disagree with my assessment, but have at it.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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