Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234
Results 61 to 80 of 80
Like Tree44Likes

Thread: Report from Engine Co. 82 video

  1. #61
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    9,860

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Whammer79 View Post
    The first bunker gear we got was by Bristol. It was great stuff, it kept you warm in the winter and you didn't overheat too badly in summer. But technology has moved on and I don't think for the better. You are so insulated you can easily push into temperatures that you should not be pushing into.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't want to go back to pullups boots, I prefer the bunker gear PANTS. The coat I'm not so thrilled with.
    My # 1 POC FD uses bristol and we have for over a decade, well except for a bad one year side trip to Quaker. Love that stuff, light, comfortable and very flexible.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate


  2. #62
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    731

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Whammer79 View Post
    The first bunker gear we got was by Bristol. It was great stuff, it kept you warm in the winter and you didn't overheat too badly in summer. But technology has moved on and I don't think for the better. You are so insulated you can easily push into temperatures that you should not be pushing into.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't want to go back to pullups boots, I prefer the bunker gear PANTS. The coat I'm not so thrilled with.
    Encapsulation can cause us to be unaware of true conditions , but for me it is not excuse for going too far. The gear doesn't bring us in; we bring it in. Size-up is everything. Look at the building, look at the fire and the smoke, and communicate inside to outside to roof etc. Know the status of handline(s). Use your TIC if available. Then use your best judgement, erring on the side of caution. KNOWN life hazard of course changes the formula, but if you've decided that the victim is savable then the heat level shouldn't be a problem for gear.
    One thing about the gear is that it only works if you wear all of it and wear it properly. Get sloppy with it and you'll eventually get hurt.
    BoxAlarm187 and fotowun like this.

  3. #63
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    731

    Default

    Another thing about modern PPE. It allows us to operate in environments that Dennis Smith and the brothers in 82 and 31 would never enter. This is not necessarily a good thing. With airtight construction and renovations, along with modern contents, the fire environment is much hotter and more volatile than it was then. In addition to the things mentioned in my above post it is essential that firefighters have a thorough understanding of modern fire behavior. I urge all to become familiar with the latest research (UL, NIST, etc). Some of the things we thought we knew about firefighting are no longer the most efficient way to fight fires.

  4. #64
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,542

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by captnjak View Post
    Another thing about modern PPE. It allows us to operate in environments that Dennis Smith and the brothers in 82 and 31 would never enter. This is not necessarily a good thing. With airtight construction and renovations, along with modern contents, the fire environment is much hotter and more volatile than it was then. In addition to the things mentioned in my above post it is essential that firefighters have a thorough understanding of modern fire behavior. I urge all to become familiar with the latest research (UL, NIST, etc). Some of the things we thought we knew about firefighting are no longer the most efficient way to fight fires.

    SSSSSShhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.... Now you are interjecting science into firefighting.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  5. #65
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    1,935

    Default

    no LAla -im thinking he is talking about taking scientific studies and applying them to real world knowledge and experience with a jolt of common sense thrown in. Not parroting something you read sitting in your basement in your underwear wearing a firehouse sub kids plastic helmet. Big difference
    Chenzo likes this.
    ?

  6. #66
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,542

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    no LAla -im thinking he is talking about taking scientific studies and applying them to real world knowledge and experience with a jolt of common sense thrown in. Not parroting something you read sitting in your basement in your underwear wearing a firehouse sub kids plastic helmet. Big difference
    Yupppppppppppppers ... That's me.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  7. #67
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    731

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    no LAla -im thinking he is talking about taking scientific studies and applying them to real world knowledge and experience with a jolt of common sense thrown in. Not parroting something you read sitting in your basement in your underwear wearing a firehouse sub kids plastic helmet. Big difference
    I'm no science weenie but I don't fight it either. I've been exposed to the testing and research. They were real fires with realistic contents. The results speak for themselves. If we acknowledge it, accept it and MAKE IT WORK FOR US as opposed to against us we can continue to act agressively to save life and property.

    As slackjaw noted, we should APPLY the science in doing the job, not use it to STOP us from doing the job.
    conrad427 and HFD50 like this.

  8. #68
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,542

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by captnjak View Post
    I'm no science weenie but I don't fight it either. I've been exposed to the testing and research. They were real fires with realistic contents. The results speak for themselves. If we acknowledge it, accept it and MAKE IT WORK FOR US as opposed to against us we can continue to act agressively to save life and property.

    As slackjaw noted, we should APPLY the science in doing the job, not use it to STOP us from doing the job.
    Unless the science tells us that we are bringing a knife to a gun fight.

    When the science tells us that the resources, training and/or experience that a department brings to an incident is inadequate for the incident, it damn sure should prevent them from "doing the job" as you phrased it.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  9. #69
    Forum Member CaptOldTimer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 1999
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    7,202

    Default

    The way we operated and what we had to work with back in the 1950's and into the 1980's would make the members coming in now days to re think their career choice.


    No hoods, our necks and ears was the sensor for the heat. 3/4 boots that rarely got pulled up, most of the time they were folded down. 36 inch cotton duck or rubber turn out coats. Red Fire Ball, aka fuel oil driver, gloves were the choice or a regular gauntlet work glove.


    Rear step or side to the trailer riding, plus open cab apparatus was the norm.

    All service filter masks and in some cases SCBA for under the ground work or in a confined space element.

    Leather lungs was a must. Smoke a cigarette after a smoky job to clear the lungs out.

    Cotton jacket hose line, that had to be washed and hung to dry after each use.


    Report from Engine 82, was a good read. The Brothers in the FDNY earned their pay and retirement.

    Members now days, couldn't cut it like the old guys once did.


    There wasn't any room or place for yard breathers.
    FyredUp, Chenzo, conrad427 and 1 others like this.
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

  10. #70
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    9,860

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Unless the science tells us that we are bringing a knife to a gun fight.

    Or in your VFDs case a rubber chicken.

    When the science tells us that the resources, training and/or experience that a department brings to an incident is inadequate for the incident, it damn sure should prevent them from "doing the job" as you phrased it.

    Blah Blah Blah...And as long as you keep making excuses for **** poor performance, **** poor attendance at drill and calls, your phony baloney two tiered firedfighter system, guys that are never aound, reaons why you can't go interior, and outright lying to your board by keeping them AND your citizens in the dark about your EXTREMELY limited capabilities and the fact the your AMA FD does the interior work for you you have absolutely no understanding of the JOB or the right to sound like you do.
    All of your excuses simply become BS when I can tell a true story of a POORLY publicly funded FD, your budget is 100 times theirs, that fund raisers the vast majority of their operating funds, that is aggressive, does interior firefighting and search, and is proud of everything they have. This is an EXTREMELY rural FD with not a single house in sight of their number 1 station. How do they do it? Maybe you should ask them. Because they make it work every day without excuses.
    Chenzo and conrad427 like this.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  11. #71
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    731

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Unless the science tells us that we are bringing a knife to a gun fight.

    When the science tells us that the resources, training and/or experience that a department brings to an incident is inadequate for the incident, it damn sure should prevent them from "doing the job" as you phrased it.
    NOTHING should prevent them from "doing the job". I believe that will be defined by the IC (whoever that may be) at any given scene. I do not endorse "bringing a knife to a gunfight". I endorse fighting fires as aggressively as possible without discarding all efforts at safety. It is a balancing act when done properly. Risk CAN and should be managed. Risk CANNOT be eliminated.
    As far as your department and it's policies: I feel it would be unwise and unfair for me to dictate how you should operate from my keyboard 1000 miles away.

  12. #72
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    731

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    The way we operated and what we had to work with back in the 1950's and into the 1980's would make the members coming in now days to re think their career choice.


    No hoods, our necks and ears was the sensor for the heat. 3/4 boots that rarely got pulled up, most of the time they were folded down. 36 inch cotton duck or rubber turn out coats. Red Fire Ball, aka fuel oil driver, gloves were the choice or a regular gauntlet work glove.


    Rear step or side to the trailer riding, plus open cab apparatus was the norm.

    All service filter masks and in some cases SCBA for under the ground work or in a confined space element.

    Leather lungs was a must. Smoke a cigarette after a smoky job to clear the lungs out.

    Cotton jacket hose line, that had to be washed and hung to dry after each use.


    Report from Engine 82, was a good read. The Brothers in the FDNY earned their pay and retirement.

    Members now days, couldn't cut it like the old guys once did.


    There wasn't any room or place for yard breathers.
    I think you are being unfair to the brothers who do the job today. No, we don't do what you did. But you never did what we do. Bunker gear is heavy and cumbersome and hot. On hot days dehydration and overheating set in very rapidly. If you do a bunch of emergency runs before going to work at a fire, you're already behind the eight ball before you even start.
    A room contents fire can go from ignition to free-burning/flashover within about 4 minutes; when you worked it was probably more like 20 minutes. There are no more natural materials (wool, cotton, wood). Fires now burn faster and hotter. There is more smoke and the smoke itself is highly combustible so the "seat" of the fire is actually all around you. The smoke is loaded with carbon monoxide and hydrogen cyanide so a few breaths without a mask can make you loopy, knock you out, or just plain kill you. You had single pane loosely fitted windows; we have tightly sealed double and triple pane windows. Fires rarely self vent, and when they do they escalate wildly. Gone are the days when you could crawl in under the smoke layer and douse a small fire with the can before it "takes off". It takes off long before we get there. Staffing seems to have gone down vs up so guys do more.
    I believe it's an apples and oranges thing. We do the job differently than you did; that doesn't makes us lesser firefighters. I started my career working with some of the "war years" firefighters. No bunker gear. We had SCBA but didn't necessarily use it. So I've seen a little of what you did. No disrespect intended, but we don't do what you did and you didn't do what we do.
    sfd1992 likes this.

  13. #73
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    1,110

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    The way we operated and what we had to work with back in the 1950's and into the 1980's would make the members coming in now days to re think their career choice.


    No hoods, our necks and ears was the sensor for the heat. 3/4 boots that rarely got pulled up, most of the time they were folded down. 36 inch cotton duck or rubber turn out coats. Red Fire Ball, aka fuel oil driver, gloves were the choice or a regular gauntlet work glove.


    Rear step or side to the trailer riding, plus open cab apparatus was the norm.

    All service filter masks and in some cases SCBA for under the ground work or in a confined space element.

    Leather lungs was a must. Smoke a cigarette after a smoky job to clear the lungs out.

    Cotton jacket hose line, that had to be washed and hung to dry after each use.


    Report from Engine 82, was a good read. The Brothers in the FDNY earned their pay and retirement.

    Members now days, couldn't cut it like the old guys once did.


    There wasn't any room or place for yard breathers.
    Of course, many of those brave men didn't enjoy very many years of retirement.....

    The advantage of the new stuff is that when things go sour, we can better survive what would undoubtebly kill those guys. Back then, a flashover was guaranteed death. And with SCBA, we're not dying little by little on every fire.

  14. #74
    Forum Member conrad427's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Just south of Canada
    Posts
    536

    Default

    I read articles by a guy who grew up in the fifties and he is convinced that the fifties was the only good time to be a kid. Hell, I did pretty well in the eighties and my kids are doing well in the teens. I can however appreciate some of the aspects of being around in the olden years. I don't believe that there exists a brotherhood among the young firefighters in my area that once was. We are loosing some of the camaraderie and I think it is all them dad gum smartphones fault!
    I can appreciate the way things were done in the day, I also appreciate the technology I have now. But to hear the old guys talk about brotherhood makes me sad.
    The fire service is about service to our fellow man.
    There is a trust that must not be broken and we are the keepers of that trust.
    Captain Dave LeBlanc

  15. #75
    Forum Member CaptOldTimer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 1999
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    7,202

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by captnjak View Post
    I think you are being unfair to the brothers who do the job today. No, we don't do what you did. But you never did what we do. Bunker gear is heavy and cumbersome and hot. On hot days dehydration and overheating set in very rapidly. If you do a bunch of emergency runs before going to work at a fire, you're already behind the eight ball before you even start.
    A room contents fire can go from ignition to free-burning/flashover within about 4 minutes; when you worked it was probably more like 20 minutes. There are no more natural materials (wool, cotton, wood). Fires now burn faster and hotter. There is more smoke and the smoke itself is highly combustible so the "seat" of the fire is actually all around you. The smoke is loaded with carbon monoxide and hydrogen cyanide so a few breaths without a mask can make you loopy, knock you out, or just plain kill you. You had single pane loosely fitted windows; we have tightly sealed double and triple pane windows. Fires rarely self vent, and when they do they escalate wildly. Gone are the days when you could crawl in under the smoke layer and douse a small fire with the can before it "takes off". It takes off long before we get there. Staffing seems to have gone down vs up so guys do more.
    I believe it's an apples and oranges thing. We do the job differently than you did; that doesn't makes us lesser firefighters. I started my career working with some of the "war years" firefighters. No bunker gear. We had SCBA but didn't necessarily use it. So I've seen a little of what you did. No disrespect intended, but we don't do what you did and you didn't do what we do.


    Being unfair? I don't think so. They guys back then were mostly veterans from World War 2 or Korea, later from Vietnam. They used and worked with what the department had at that time. It was the best that was available.

    As years progressed and department upgraded, new type of turnout gear were designed and procured. Helmets have changed so much in style, designs and composition as well. Breathing apparatus is another big change. Once having the All Service, Chemox and old SCBA's, that was all they was had. Yes the newer long, lighter breathers are so much better. The turnout gear newer styles are heavier but give the members a better chance of not being injured.


    When I retired about 8 years ago we had at that time the latest and greatest of PPE that funds could buy. I for one am glad that the members coning on board now have the best gear that can be issued.

    I am familiar with the styles and type of PPE on the street now days.
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

  16. #76
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    731

    Default

    Yes I believe you were unfair. I don't know what makes you think we no longer have veterans in the fire service. Many Desert Storm, Iraq and Afghanistan vets coming on nowadays. No disrespect to vets intended, but plenty of non-veterans are excellent firefighters.

    Yes the PPE has gotten better. That shouldn't be held against the modern firefighter. Fire dynamics HAVE changed greatly. You disregarded that part of my post entirely. I'm not sure why. Do you agree? Disagree?

    In all likelihood, the Civil War vets denigrated the Spanish American War vets, who in turn denigrated the WWI vets, who then probably denigrated the WWII vets. It's a story as old as time. A generation from now the young kids coming on will have no use for the guys they see coming on.

  17. #77
    Forum Member CaptOldTimer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 1999
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    7,202

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by captnjak View Post
    Yes I believe you were unfair. I don't know what makes you think we no longer have veterans in the fire service. Many Desert Storm, Iraq and Afghanistan vets coming on nowadays. No disrespect to vets intended, but plenty of non-veterans are excellent firefighters.

    Yes the PPE has gotten better. That shouldn't be held against the modern firefighter. Fire dynamics HAVE changed greatly. You disregarded that part of my post entirely. I'm not sure why. Do you agree? Disagree?

    In all likelihood, the Civil War vets denigrated the Spanish American War vets, who in turn denigrated the WWI vets, who then probably denigrated the WWII vets. It's a story as old as time. A generation from now the young kids coming on will have no use for the guys they see coming on.
    No one, I myself, was being unfair. When I began the equipment wasn't like what the members use now. As the years progressed, the gear, apparatus, tools and appliances got better. Fires have went from what we experience to what was being experience, when I hung my helmet up to what the members see now. We wore and use what we were issued as they members of today do. Fire begin and fire goes out, it doesn't matter one bit how much gear you are wearing, how cool an engine looks with all the bells and whistles and the light weight hose now in use.

    No one put down any of you young guys. Times have changed my friend, and I kept up with it for over the 40 odd years I was in the fight. I can say this; I never liked a hood, except for winter time. I rarely used one even when I was a line officer. I was for safety, but I learned from old school members, probably like the young guns of today have from members with 20 odd years on the job.

    Members today laugh at the old guys, who had to ride the rear step and the sides of ladder trucks, all with open cabs.
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

  18. #78
    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    3,252

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    Members today laugh at the old guys, who had to ride the rear step and the sides of ladder trucks, all with open cabs.
    We laugh? Not at all. There's a feeling of respect, admiration, and at times, awe, for the way that the previous generations of firefighters were "forced" to deal with fires and other emergencies.

    Did firefighters in the 40's through 70's have different challenges? Of course. SCBA weren't as plentiful, and there was a cultural climate that anyone who wore one wasn't "man enough" to take in some smoke. Burns were just accepted as part of the job. Riding an open cab in the middle of winter was acceptable, as the trade off was being able to see the thermal column on approach. But what were the downsides? Men being thrown off of, our out of the rig in crashes. Burns. Higher cancer rates. More injuries. Higher LODD rates due to smoke and flame.

    Today, we have great PPE ensembles, pumps that do 50% of the work for the pump operator, plenty of lightweight SCBA for each member on the rig, lighter weight hose, and many other advancements. However, we also have to deal with lightweight residential construction, increased petroleum loads, higher and faster burn rates of buildings & building contents, tighter construction, more ventilation challenges, and a hose of other issues.

    None of these things make either generation of firefighter better or smarter. We've simply had to adapt to meet new challenges.

    When I retire in 15 years, I'll be able to tell my rookies, "hey, I used to work with a guy that rode tailboard way back in the day!" I'll then ensure that he or she understands that foundation laid by our predecessors is what provides the fire service that we have today.
    johnsb, conrad427 and HFD50 like this.
    Career Fire Captain
    Volunteer Chief Officer


    Never taking for granted that I'm privileged enough to have the greatest job in the world!

  19. #79
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    731

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    No one, I myself, was being unfair. When I began the equipment wasn't like what the members use now. As the years progressed, the gear, apparatus, tools and appliances got better. Fires have went from what we experience to what was being experience, when I hung my helmet up to what the members see now. We wore and use what we were issued as they members of today do. Fire begin and fire goes out, it doesn't matter one bit how much gear you are wearing, how cool an engine looks with all the bells and whistles and the light weight hose now in use.

    No one put down any of you young guys. Times have changed my friend, and I kept up with it for over the 40 odd years I was in the fight. I can say this; I never liked a hood, except for winter time. I rarely used one even when I was a line officer. I was for safety, but I learned from old school members, probably like the young guns of today have from members with 20 odd years on the job.

    Members today laugh at the old guys, who had to ride the rear step and the sides of ladder trucks, all with open cabs.
    But you WERE unfair.

    You stated that young guys coming on today would "rethink their career choice" if they had to deal with what you did.

    You stated that "members nowadays couldn't cut it like the old guys did".

    I believe those are unfair statements because you can't KNOW them to be true and because you compared current firefighters unfavorably to your generation.

    MOST IMPORTANTLY: Anyone laughing at your generation of firemen (remember when it was OK to use that term?) is a giant A-hole!

  20. #80
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    30

    Default

    Don't lump everybody into this group CaptOldTimer. We still use cotton jacket that is cleaned and hung after each use. Right or wrong, SCBA's are seldom used on roofs and once the fire is darkened down on the interior, those are stripped as well. It's not to be macho or anything When your one of the few departments out there that still have all their houses catching multiple fires a night on a regular basis, you don't stray far from your traditions and "old school" mentality. Things were definitely different back then and I tip my hat to the men from years past, but there are still some departments out there (albeit it is a very very small minority) that still do things the way they were done in the 80's. Right or wrong. And im sure some people will reply and say how it's unsafe or ignorant to do so, but it works for us. And when you're seeing fires on a daily basis, you go with what works.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Engine 82 Ladder 31 old video
    By TrainEngineer in forum Emergency (& Non) Entertainment
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-18-2009, 01:17 AM
  2. CA- Fire Engine, Vehicle Collide; One Dead...(video)
    By CALFFBOU in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 45
    Last Post: 02-21-2009, 12:12 AM
  3. Apparatus in Report from Engine company 82?
    By NonSurfinCaFF in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 12-16-2004, 08:26 PM
  4. Report From Engine Co. 82
    By stm4710 in forum The Off Duty Forums
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 03-01-2004, 11:45 PM
  5. report from engine co. 82-read it!
    By fm2b in forum Emergency (& Non) Entertainment
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-26-2000, 11:39 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts