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Thread: If the demographic fits, hope they don't acquit

  1. #181
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    It seems like some guys are getting the meaning of this verdict wrong. The prosecution's job was to PROVE TO THIS JURY BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT that Zimmerman committed murder or manslaughter. The prosecution was unable to do so. There was never enough evidence to do so. That's why there were no charges until political pressure mounted. The defense team didn't have to prove self defense. The prosecution didn't have to disprove self defense.
    None of what happened in the trial makes Zimmerman innocent. None of what happened in the trial makes Martin guilty of anything. None of what happened in the trial proves any individual theory of what happened on the night in question. If you believe Zimmerman is a murderer, that's your right, but nothing has proven that to be true. If you believe that Martin was a drug crazed thug who violently attacked Zimmerman that's your right, but nothing has proven that to be true.
    NOTHING has been proved either way! There is only one man on earth who knows exactly what happened and I'm pretty sure he can't be objective even if he does ever talk.

    One other point. Some guys point to the so called vicious beating that Zimmerman took and use that as justification for deadly force. Pictures of his wounds were presented in the media to show this. There was fresh blood on his head, but there really wasn't that much. We all know how much head wounds can bleed. There didn't appear to be much swelling either. I don't buy the notion that Martin was repeatedly smashing Zimmerman's head against the sidewalk. If that's true shouldn't Zimmerman have been unconscious, or at least semi-conscious? Zimmerman looked like a guy with a relatively minor cut on his head and a bloody nose. He didn't look like a guy who had been beaten to within an inch of his life, as some media outlets have portrayed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Unless you believe that when Martin doubled back and confronted Zimmerman, he threw the first punch, and yes, committed the first illegal act of the incident.

    Seems like that was the way jury saw it.
    The ONLY thing we know for sure about how the jury saw it is that they didn't believe the prosecution proved Zimmerman's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Nothing more, nothing less.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Unless you believe that when Martin doubled back and confronted Zimmerman, he threw the first punch, and yes, committed the first illegal act of the incident.

    Seems like that was the way jury saw it.
    Ha ha ha. You continue to show that you are clueless.

    No one knows who threw the first punch. Even the jury.

    Zimmerman still has yet to prove why he had so much interest in Martin.
    Last edited by scfire86; 07-22-2013 at 12:58 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Ha ha ha. You continue to show that you are clueless.

    No one knows who threw the first punch. Even the jury.

    Zimmerman still has yet to prove why he had so much interest in Martin.
    Black kid in a primarily white neighborhood. Kid possibly disguising his face with a hoodie. According to Zimmerman, the kid wasn't just walking but looking around the houses. History of recent break-ins in the neighborhood.

    Profiling? Maybe.

    But certainly a good and justifiable reason to be interested. I know I would be interested if I noticed kid, and yes, especially a black kid, doing those same things in my neighborhood.

    Again, if you want to call that profiling, have at it. If you want to call me worse, have at it as well.

    And again, it was Martin that seemed to provoke the confrontation, not Zimmerman, as he had a chance to avoid it, but instead choose to double back.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 07-22-2013 at 01:27 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Black kid in a primarily white neighborhood. Kid possibly disguising his face with a hoodie. According to Zimmerman, the kid wasn't just walking but looking around the houses. History of recent break-ins in the neighborhood.

    Profiling? Maybe.

    But certainly a good and justifiable reason to be interested. I know I would be interested if I noticed kid, and yes, especially a black kid, doing those same things in my neighborhood.

    Again, if you want to call that profiling, have at it.

    And again, it was Martin that seemed to provoke the confrontation, not Zimmerman, as he had a chance to avoid it, but instead choose to double back.
    There you have it. A black man with a hoodie is deemed suspicious because he was in a white neighborhood.

    Zimmerman claimed Martin was looking around houses, but was unwilling to take the stand to cite that rationale. So all we have is his word for it.

    The Sanford PD could find no proof that Martin was doing anything illegal.

    Lastly, I know your skull is pretty thick, we don't know who started the confrontation. We do know that Zimmerman exited his vehicle looking for Martin and then proceeded to get his *** beat by someone that weighed a 100# less.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    There you have it. A black man with a hoodie is deemed suspicious because he was in a white neighborhood.

    Yes.

    And that is still the reality in America. Blacks commit a disproportionate amount of all crime and 50% of all murders are committed by blacks even though they make up only 13% of the population.

    Liberals hate it when the reality of crime is pointed out.

    I know you probably view me as a racist, but hey, that's cool.



    Zimmerman claimed Martin was looking around houses, but was unwilling to take the stand to cite that rationale. So all we have is his word for it.

    He didn't need to take the stand. The prosecution had no evidence and hence no case.

    The Sanford PD could find no proof that Martin was doing anything illegal.

    Funny thing is that they also found that Zimmerman did nothing illegal. So did the local prosecutor. Yet Zimmerman went to trail after the race zealots yelled and screamed bloody murder.

    Double standard anyone.


    Lastly, I know your skull is pretty thick, we don't know who started the confrontation. We do know that Zimmerman exited his vehicle looking for Martin and then proceeded to get his *** beat by someone that weighed a 100# less.
    Pretty good bet was that he was jumped if he outweighed the kid by that much. Or he was just a wimp.

    But either way he feared for his life when the kid was on top and took action that was justifiable. And the jury agreed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Pretty good bet was that he was jumped if he outweighed the kid by that much. Or he was just a wimp.

    Yet Zimmerman wouldn't take the stand to make that claim. Once again your claim is not supported by facts which I while detail later.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    But either way he feared for his life when the kid was on top and took action that was justifiable. And the jury agreed.
    Which does not make his actions right. You've stated that you believe Martin instigated the physical confrontation. With no proof whatsoever. What we do know is that of the two combatants, Zimmerman was the one with a history of violent behavior. Except in this case it wasn't a much smaller female, it was a much smaller male who wasn't afraid of a fat piece of s***. A much smaller male who proceeded to kick his a**.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And that is still the reality in America. Blacks commit a disproportionate amount of all crime and 50% of all murders are committed by blacks even though they make up only 13% of the population.

    According to FBI statistics, 69% of the arrested offenders by race are white. Bam...blown out of the water. Unless you can prove Martin was a potential murder suspect your second factoid is irrelevant. Zimmerman claimed he was acting suspicious. What does that mean exactly? Zimmerman never detailed what he meant by that statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Liberals hate it when the reality of crime is pointed out.

    And idiots hate it when facts get in the way of their moron stereotypes.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I know you probably view me as a racist, but hey, that's cool.

    Yup. You make that belief a reality....easily.

    I read years ago the majority of powder cocaine users were white males living in the suburbs. I guess I can now start looking at my neighbors as cocaine abusers (hence lawbreakers) since the statistics make that a high probability. I'm sure you'll believe that profiling is also acceptable.
    Last edited by scfire86; 07-22-2013 at 03:40 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Black kid in a primarily white neighborhood. Kid possibly disguising his face with a hoodie. According to Zimmerman, the kid wasn't just walking but looking around the houses. History of recent break-ins in the neighborhood.

    Profiling? Maybe.

    But certainly a good and justifiable reason to be interested. I know I would be interested if I noticed kid, and yes, especially a black kid, doing those same things in my neighborhood.

    Again, if you want to call that profiling, have at it. If you want to call me worse, have at it as well.

    And again, it was Martin that seemed to provoke the confrontation, not Zimmerman, as he had a chance to avoid it, but instead choose to double back.
    Thanks for FINALLY showing your true self on this topic. It just shows once again what a pathetic train wreck of a human being you are.
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  9. #189
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    Orig
    inally Posted by scfire86
    There you have it. A black man with a hoodie is deemed suspicious because he was in a white neighborhood.

    Yes.

    And that is still the reality in America. Blacks commit a disproportionate amount of all crime and 50% of all murders are committed by blacks even though they make up only 13% of the population.

    Liberals hate it when the reality of crime is pointed out.

    I know you probably view me as a racist, but hey, that's cool.


    I think it is VERY telling that you say "that's cool" to being thought of as a racist. But then again when you know the majority of people here think you are a dumb azz, adding racist to your resume to help draw even more attention to yourself makes perfect sense.

    Zimmerman claimed Martin was looking around houses, but was unwilling to take the stand to cite that rationale. So all we have is his word for it.

    He didn't need to take the stand. The prosecution had no evidence and hence no case.

    I will SPECULATE that a big part of the reason he didn't take the standis because the defnse knew he would hurt his own defense more than he would help it.

    The Sanford PD could find no proof that Martin was doing anything illegal.

    Funny thing is that they also found that Zimmerman did nothing illegal. So did the local prosecutor. Yet Zimmerman went to trail after the race zealots yelled and screamed bloody murder.

    Double standard anyone.


    The difference was, and you can cry all you want about what I am going to say, Zimmerman initiated any possibility of a confrontation by getting too close to Trayvon and exiting his vehicle to get even closer. Neither you nor myself, or anyone else for that matterknows or will ever know who started the physical contact, but the one truth that will never be disproven is that if Zimmerman stays in his vehicle, back a safe distance and reports trayvon's last location, NO CONFRONTATION OCCURS.

    I don't believe either one of them was doing anything illegal. Other than perhaps simple trespass. I do believe 100% tht as a supposed respected member of the neighborhood watch Zimmerman acted stupidly, foolishly, and far outside the rules of the national neighborhood watch organization.

    I understand completely that the jury believed Zimmerman's version of the events, I also understand that the jury believed Zimmerman's life was in danger at that moment he shot Trayvon. I am not sure whether I agree or not that killing him was necessary, but that according to the law was legal. Again, stay in the vehicle and observe from a safe distance and no confrontation occurs.


    Lastly, I know your skull is pretty thick, we don't know who started the confrontation. We do know that Zimmerman exited his vehicle looking for Martin and then proceeded to get his *** beat by someone that weighed a 100# less.

    Pretty good bet was that he was jumped if he outweighed the kid by that much. Or he was just a wimp.

    My SPECULATION would be that he saw a smaller kid and figured he could muscle him, or intimidate him. Sometimes people do stupid things with no knowledge of their opponent.

    But either way he feared for his life when the kid was on top and took action that was justifiable. And the jury agreed.

    And according to the law his actions were legal. That is why the jury decided as they did. The only clinker is if he started the fight then is it really self defense? No one will ever know the answer to that one for sure.
    In the end the one truth no one can dispute is if Zimmerman stays in his vehicle, doesn't get close enough for any confrontation to be possible, and reports Trayvons last known whereabouts, no confrontation occurs.

    Oh, I wanted to point this out. YOU LA, who would not intervene in an incident like a car on fire with people trapped if it wasn't in your area, and advocated for others not to intervene, all of a sudden now are advocating for people to intervene, get involved, and place themselves in danger of injury or death, for a "Suspicious" person walking through their neighborhood. Especially if that suspicious person is black and wearing a hoody? Dude you are such a F***ING hypocrite that even my level of amazement is pegged deep into the red zone.
    Last edited by FyredUp; 07-22-2013 at 03:41 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Thanks for FINALLY showing your true self on this topic. It just shows once again what a pathetic train wreck of a human being you are.
    Yup. I profile based on the statistics regarding blacks and crime as presented by law enforcement. And I have no issues saying it.

    However, that has nothing to do with this case.

    Zimmerman was doing nothing illegal. We know that Martin made the choice to confront Zimmerman when he had the option of simply not doubling back. We know that Zimmerman was on the ground and had injuries consistent with such. We know that Martin was on top and that a majority of the witnesses identified Zimmerman's voice as calling for help.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Orig

    In the end the one truth no one can dispute is if Zimmerman stays in his vehicle, doesn't get close enough for any confrontation to be possible, and reports Trayvons last known whereabouts, no confrontation occurs.

    Oh, I wanted to point this out. YOU LA, who would not intervene in an incident like a car on fire with people trapped if it wasn't in your area, and advocated for others not to intervene, all of a sudden now are advocating for people to intervene, get involved, and place themselves in danger of injury or death, for a "Suspicious" person walking through their neighborhood. Especially if that suspicious person is black and wearing a hoody? Dude you are such a F***ING hypocrite that even my level of amazement is pegged deep into the red zone.
    Never advocated that he intervene, however it is somebody's right to follow somebody if they believe that they are suspicious or simply "don't belong".

    The fact is that the "car incident" has nothing to do with the current discussion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Zimmerman was doing nothing illegal. We know that Martin made the choice to confront Zimmerman when he had the option of simply not doubling back.
    No, we don't know that. We do know that Martin was about 100 yards from his residence. For all we know Martin believed he was being stalked. Which in this case, is true. Even if what you is true about Martin doubling back, it isn't illegal. Unless of course if that is done by a black male wearing a hoodie during a rainy evening is suspicious to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    We know that Zimmerman was on the ground and had injuries consistent with such. We know that Martin was on top and that a majority of the witnesses identified Zimmerman's voice as calling for help.
    None of which would have happened if he had not gotten out of his car.

    We do know that Zimmerman had a history of violence.
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  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Never advocated that he intervene, however it is somebody's right to follow somebody if they believe that they are suspicious or simply "don't belong".

    The fact is that the "car incident" has nothing to do with the current discussion.
    How is that their "right?" Based on what?

    Zimmerman has yet to state what behavior Martin was exhibiting that was "suspicious."
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    [/COLOR]
    Yet Zimmerman wouldn't take the stand to make that claim. Once again your claim is not supported by facts which I while detail later.

    And again, Zimmerman had no obligation to take the stand. he had already stated that Martin threw the first punch.


    Which does not make his actions right. You've stated that you believe Martin instigated the physical confrontation. With no proof whatsoever. What we do know is that of the two combatants, Zimmerman was the one with a history of violent behavior. Except in this case it wasn't a much smaller female, it was a much smaller male who wasn't afraid of a fat piece of s***. A much smaller male who proceeded to kick his a**.

    Assuming that Zimmerman threw the first punch and was not assaulted by Martin.

    [/COLOR]
    According to FBI statistics, 69% of the arrested offenders by race are white. Bam...blown out of the water. Unless you can prove Martin was a potential murder suspect your second factoid is irrelevant. Zimmerman claimed he was acting suspicious. What does that mean exactly? Zimmerman never detailed what he meant by that statement.

    Note I said disproportionate. Whites represent 69.7 of the US population, so an arrest rate of 69% is proportionate with the percentage of the population. Blacks represent 13% of the population yet represent 28% of the arrests, therefore arrests v. population is disproportionate.

    So my statement is in fact ... Bammmmmmmmmm ... Correct.


    [/COLOR]
    And idiots hate it when facts get in the way of their moron stereotypes.

    See above.

    [/COLOR]
    Yup. You make that belief a reality....easily.

    I read years ago the majority of powder cocaine users were white males living in the suburbs. I guess I can now start looking at my neighbors as cocaine abusers (hence lawbreakers) since the statistics make that a high probability. I'm sure you'll believe that profiling is also acceptable.
    Half the murders in the US are committed by blacks, even though they represent only 13% of the population.

    I have many black friends, and we get along just fine.

    This isn't an issue that I need to be concerned about. It's an issue that needs to concern the black community. if they want these "stereotypes" to go away, they need to change the facts when it comes to blacks and their involvement in crime.

    When the cold, hard stats change, I'll be less likely to look over my shoulder and profile, but until then, there is statistical justification for being more wary of blacks, especially young black males, than whites.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 07-22-2013 at 04:07 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    How is that their "right?" Based on what?

    Zimmerman has yet to state what behavior Martin was exhibiting that was "suspicious."
    He certainly has.

    Black male in a primarily white community. Looking around, walking in between homes.

    And yes, as a member of that community he certainly has the right to keep an eye on and report somebody that simply doesn't look right. In fact, I could even argue that it's an obligation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Seriously, if this is the best you can come up with for Zimmerman to follow Trayvon Martin this thing has reached a point of being absolutely ludicrous. Zimmerman is under no legal obligation to follow Trayvon, no matter what he has done or may do. In fact he could just as easily have kept going on his way home and not have done a damn thing and never been legally liable for anything.

    The stretch to make the case for Zimmerman to follow Trayvon is just silly. Call the police, report what you saw, report direction of travel, and stay out of it personally. The fact is if I see someone trespassing at my neighbor's house I will call the police and stay out of any chance of contact with the trespasser(s). I have met my MORAL obligation as a good neighbor and not placed myself in the position of physical harm.
    I was in no way trying to justify Zimmerman following Martin. I completely agree that that was a very poor choice that ultimately precipitated the outcome. My point was specifically about having a civilian dispatcher give "legal" orders to do or not do something. I believe that giving lawful orders from a distance away will/would/could lead to liability. I in no way think that my "what if" is a possibility by any stretch, merely using the case before us in the scenario.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    He certainly has.

    Black male in a primarily white community. Looking around, walking in between homes.
    Martin was living in the neighborhood at the time. What do you mean walking "in between" homes? Was he on public pathways. This claim by Zimmerman was never proven and Zimmerman never put forth any proof this was occurring.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And yes, as a member of that community he certainly has the right to keep an eye on and report somebody that simply doesn't look right. In fact, I could even argue that it's an obligation.
    Doesn't look "right?" I could say that about many of my former colleagues on their days off. My engineer was 6'5" and 300+ lbs. Had tattoos that practically covered both arms and rode a Harley. I can state he certainly didn't look "right" in any neighborhood. But think about what you are saying. No one believes you would feel that way if a white man was walking through a primarily black or hispanic community.

    You continue to prove you're a pile.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Half the murders in the US are committed by blacks, even though they represent only 13% of the population.

    I have many black friends, and we get along just fine.

    This isn't an issue that I need to be concerned about. It's an issue that needs to concern the black community. if they want these "stereotypes" to go away, they need to change the facts when it comes to blacks and their involvement in crime.

    When the cold, hard stats change, I'll be less likely to look over my shoulder and profile, but until then, there is statistical justification for being more wary of blacks, especially young black males, than whites.
    Learn how to use the quote function dumb*****.

    You intentionally do this to make it more difficult to respond. When you can manage to address the issue like everyone else I'll respond. Till then, you just prove you're a dumb*****.

    Though I have to admit I like this line:

    I have many black friends, and we get along just fine.
    You stated it incorrectly. You should be saying:

    "Some of my best friends are black."
    Last edited by scfire86; 07-22-2013 at 04:23 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Learn how to use the quote function dumb*****.

    You intentionally do this to make it more difficult to respond. When you can manage to address the issue like everyone else I'll respond. Till then, you just prove you're a dumb*****.

    Though I have to admit I like this line:



    You stated it incorrectly. You should be saying:

    "Some of my best friends are black."
    Arrest data:

    http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004896.html

    Population data is from the US Census Bureau.

    Any other questions?
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Martin was living in the neighborhood at the time. What do you mean walking "in between" homes? Was he on public pathways. This claim by Zimmerman was never proven and Zimmerman never put forth any proof this was occurring.

    The trick here is that Zimmerman never HAD to put forth why. It was not required of him as he was doing nothing illegal and had no legal requirement to justify his suspicions.


    Doesn't look "right?" I could say that about many of my former colleagues on their days off. My engineer was 6'5" and 300+ lbs. Had tattoos that practically covered both arms and rode a Harley. I can state he certainly didn't look "right" in any neighborhood. But think about what you are saying. No one believes you would feel that way if a white man was walking through a primarily black or hispanic community.

    Because there is not a significant history of whites walking through black neighborhoods and committing crime.

    As far as Latinos, I would suspect that many in the black community would disagree.


    You continue to prove you're a pile.
    By citing statistical data?

    Again, I have many friends that are black. Arte we "tight"? No. And that has more to do with differing interests and color, but positive social interaction is an issue.

    The problem with liberals is that like you, you seem to simply not be able to admit that the fear that many whites have of blacks and crime is justified by the stats. I would love to not have to look over my should and be concerned with black youths, but that's simply not realistic as black crime is an issue. And unfortunately there are many, though certainly not all, in the black community that refuses to accept this reality, and more importantly, accept the responsibility for their actions that have allowed this problem to continue.
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