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Thread: If the demographic fits, hope they don't acquit

  1. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    "You're entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts."

    Some of you really need to let that sink in.
    What facts? And is Bill Whittle (whoever the hell that is; I've never heard of him) entitled to HIS own facts?


  2. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Yes I do. Do you? Do you also believe O.J. was innocent of murdering his wife and her friend and that President Clinton was innocent of perjury?

    See how this works?

    The jury spoke in both of those cases, right?
    I believe in both cases that our justice system did as it was designed, and that has to be good enough for me. In my eyes, no one case can signal a drastic need for change. A string of commonalities that tied cases together that point to a failure to effect justice would.

    I'm unhappy that no one has been imprisoned in the first case and ultimately write Presidential perjury off as just another day in DC. While I might agree that OJ appeared to get away with a crime, the fact is that if any of us dwell on these things, we could be totally consumed day after day as nationwide these types of cases are adjudicated. I accept this and move on.

    My annoyance here is that so many are happy to try Zimmerman in the court of public media and see his life further destroyed while all signs point to his innocence of a crime. I personally think a decent guy made a few poor choices and ended up over his head and had to make a split second decision that led to the death of a young man. I think Zimmerman will suffer with this for the rest of his life, regardless of the public outcry, which will seemingly only make things worse. I hope that no other decent people have to suffer the same when a situation suddenly spirals out of their control. One life is lost, family members devastated and another family also pushed to the brink because a series of poor choices. I'll let you decide which choices and by whom, as I'm OK with the Court's decision.

    Anyone got any other ideas as to how anything legal could have been changed that might have realistically changed the verdict or maybe the event at all? I'm not talking about choices, I'm speaking of laws that would not overly diminish anyone's rights, but also would seek to prevent a similar occurrence. Maybe someone could try the constructive angle?
    Last edited by RFDACM02; 07-24-2013 at 09:34 PM.

  3. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    Known thug.
    Man striving to be a police officer. Which was used against him because he applied a various departments but didn't make the hire. Well if that, as the media portrayed, gives him a hero complex, there is a whole crap load of wanna-be's that have applied at numerous career departments that didn't get hired. Who have the exact same thing....
    The video sums it up.
    The video sums up nothing. Except more bias and speculation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Damn facts ....... Amazing how they can get in the way of a poor little innocent black kid vs. the big bad racist narrative.
    Damn facts........Amazing how they can get in the way of a hoodie wearing, violent, paranoid, drug abusing, burgalarizing thug vs. a beacon of goodness and light narrative.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    and if he didn't double back and did go home....end of story!
    That's right, end of story. But not the beginning of the story because it starts with what Zimmerman did and/or did not do (all contrary to professional instructions received).

  6. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    We do know for a fact that Zimmerman is the one that had a history of being physically violent.

    So the likelihood of him throwing the first punch or engaging in physical activity is greater.
    I know a lot of people that never hit a cop or been arrested but have thrown plenty of punches and could easily be considered violent. If extrapolating Zimmermans' record to the level you have is OK, while pointing at Martin's history is prejudicial?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Watched it already. I don'tnecessarily find fault with most of it. The ultra right wingers posted it on a gun forum I frequent. In between their high fiving and celebrating.

    By the way, Bill Whittle is a conservative. So are we to believe HE is objective?
    It's only media bias when liberals do it. Otherwise it's hard factual news that requires NO verification whatsoever.
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  8. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Dispute any of this.

    IF you assume that Trayvon Martin threw the first punch THEN, AND ONLY THEN, is Zimmerman justified in using deadly force when the fight occurs and he feels his life is in danger.

    The jury found Zimmerman not guilty of murder.

    I have said that Zimmerman, according to the jury, was within his legal rights AT THAT MOMENT IN TIME when he shot Trayvon.

    I have said that while Zimmerman may have had the legal right to follow Trayvon, tactically it was ridiculously stupid to leave his vehicle to attempt to locate someone he deemed "suspicious."

    I have also said that if Zimmerman stays in his vehicle, a safe distance back, reports Trayvon's last location it is most likely no confrontation occurs.

    Where am I wrong?
    You're not wrong. You've posted this many times and I don't believe any one has really disputed it. They just keep going to the "suspicious activity", Martin's alleged past transgressions, the hoodie and their speculation that Martin began the physical part of this whole thing. None of which changes your point. We know the so called adult showed poor judgment in not listening to the professional advice he was given. We don't know what the minor did exactly in response to that poor judgment. Probably followed with some poor judgment of his own but I'm just guessing.

  9. #289
    Forum Member GTRider245's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by captnjak View Post
    What facts? And is Bill Whittle (whoever the hell that is; I've never heard of him) entitled to HIS own facts?
    Are you nuts? Literally every point in the video was based on factual information. Not what ifs.

    Don't worry, I didn't expect you guys to do well with real info. Keep basing your opinions on feelings and speculation.
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  10. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by captnjak View Post
    It's only media bias when liberals do it. Otherwise it's hard factual news that requires NO verification whatsoever.
    I consider myself a very conservative independent. Scary conservative on some things, pretty liberal on others.
    I got a big kick out of captnjak's post. Pretty much sums it up I think.
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  11. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Damn facts ....... Amazing how they can get in the way of a poor little innocent black kid vs. the big bad racist narrative.
    Interesting video done by a known and admitted conservative. By your standards that would make him just as biased as the liberal press.
    Last edited by FyredUp; 07-25-2013 at 10:41 AM. Reason: changed the wrong word to the right one
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  12. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    Are you nuts? Literally every point in the video was based on factual information. Not what ifs.

    Don't worry, I didn't expect you guys to do well with real info. Keep basing your opinions on feelings and speculation.
    Info is factual when it supports your viewpoint, media bias when it doesn't. That, in and of itself, speaks volumes.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
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  13. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    Known thug.
    Man striving to be a police officer. Which was used against him because he applied a various departments but didn't make the hire. Well if that, as the media portrayed, gives him a hero complex, there is a whole crap load of wanna-be's that have applied at numerous career departments that didn't get hired. Who have the exact same thing....
    The video sums it up.
    How many of those wannabes are driving around with firearms looking for trouble?

    Something the video doesn't address.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    How many of those wannabes are driving around with firearms looking for trouble?

    Something the video doesn't address.
    Really?

    Do you really want to open up that can of worms given the current discussion?
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  15. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Really?

    Do you really want to open up that can of worms given the current discussion?
    Sure. Game on.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Sure. Game on.
    On second thought, as much as I would love to, it's probably not the right time or right place.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 07-25-2013 at 10:22 AM.
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  17. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    On second thought, as much as I would love to, it's probably not the right time or right place.
    Nah, you just know this is another incident where you would get you azz handed to you.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
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  18. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    Are you nuts? Literally every point in the video was based on factual information. Not what ifs.

    Don't worry, I didn't expect you guys to do well with real info. Keep basing your opinions on feelings and speculation.
    Factual information? Like what?

    The fact that Martin previously had been found to have a burglar's tool? OK, that's a fact. It's also a fact that he had nothing like that on him the night he died.

    Or the fact that he had been in possession of possibly stolen property in the past? It's also a fact that he was not in possession of stolen property on the night he died.

    Or the fact that the Skittles and soft drink he purchased could be mixed with Robitussen to get high? It's also a fact that he didn't have any Robitussen on him the night he died. He was at a convenience store (7-11 maybe?). Why didn't he just buy some Robitussen while he was there?

    Or the fact that he had displayed some reprehensible behavior on a Youtube video or Facebook page? (Many, many teenagers do this.) It's also a fact that he displayed none of that behavior on the night he died, as far as we know. He did use violence that night but we don't KNOW how the physical part of the encounter began and went down.

    You see how this works? Just because something is factual doesn't mean it has any bearing on this case. Concerning the Skittles and soft drink issue: Orange juice can be mixed with vodka to make an alcoholic beverage. That's a fact. If you buy a quart of orange juice, would it be fair or even accurate for me to assume you will mix it with vodka, drink it and become a raging violent drunk? It is a possibility that this is what you'd do. But it is NOT a fact that this is what you'd do. Maybe you just like OJ and would drink it straight. Maybe Martin just likes sweet candy and drinks. My understanding is that some teenagers do like sweets. But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe that's just liberal bias.

    I am conservative on some issues, liberal on others. Political idealogy should have nothing to do with this case. Neither Zimmerman nor Martin went out on a political crusade the night Martin died (as far as I know). Zimmerman may or may not have unfairly profiled Martin. Zimmerman may or may not have some kind of hero complex or law enforcement obsession. Martin may or may not have been up to no good that night. Martin may or may not have been high or about to get high. I just don't know.

    NO ONE KNOWS! Everyone is entitled to an opinion on this. I just hate it when that opinion is based on slanted media coverage. It doesn't matter which way the media slant goes. Speculation and bias are not things that a reasonable, intelligent person bases his opinions on. I like to think that I base my opinions on facts. We don't have a lot of facts in this case. We know that the adult Zimmerman, against professional advice, chose to persue the minor Martin. We know that one party or the other instigated a physical altercation, in which Martin eventually prevailed. We know that Zimmerman shot Martin. That's about all we know for sure concerning that night. Based on those facts I believe that Zimmerman is at fault. He showed poor judgment. He acted beyond the normal role of a neighborhood WATCH group (not neighborhood follow or investigate or detain group). I'm not convinced that deadly force was required at the point Zimmerman used it.

    Having said that, I also believe the jury was correct in their verdict. There was not enough evidence to convict. There was actually very little evidence at all. The verdict should not be used to make Zimmerman look good here. And it should not be used to make Martin look bad here. It's bad enough that he's dead.

  19. #299
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    If that be the case then Zimmerman's background in domestic violence shouldn't be a consideration either.

    And I hate to break it to you folks, but even if Zimmerman did start the fight, straddling someone while throwing MMA blows and bashing their head against the concrete is no longer self defense.
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  20. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    How many of those wannabes are driving around with firearms looking for trouble?

    Something the video doesn't address.
    And by the way, pretty nice job of profiling Zimmerman without knowing anything about him.
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