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Thread: If the demographic fits, hope they don't acquit

  1. #21
    Forum Member snowball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitFF View Post
    I have detected a lot of racism in response to this verdict. From the right wing media, on my Facebook feed, etc. If Martin were your son there is no way you would accept this verdict.

    I was on duty in America's arson capital when this verdict came down. A lot of my coworkers shook their heads, as did I (a white guy), but it didn't prompt civil unrest. I think it should have.
    And exactly what would that accomplish? We Americans don't know how to have civil unrest without destroying everything in our paths, killing or injuring innocent people with an opposite view, or they have no involvement whatsoever, and costing taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars in repairs and lawsuits.

    The Rodney King riots are a prime example of American civil unrest.
    You don't have to watch the whole thing, but at least skip to the end to view the stats. We have enough natural disasters in this country without civil unrest.

    There are only two people that know exactly what happened that night and sadly one of them is dead.

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Csb3TWY3ptQ

    And you're right, if that we're my son, I wouldn't want to accept that verdict. But then again, I'm so involved with my kids daily lives that its not really a worry for me.
    IAFF


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    Quote Originally Posted by snowball View Post
    And you're right, if that we're my son, I wouldn't want to accept that verdict. But then again, I'm so involved with my kids daily lives that its not really a worry for me.
    You think Trevon's dad wasn't involved in his life? I hate to tell you my man, but you can't protect your kids from a zealot with a gun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitFF View Post
    I have detected a lot of racism in response to this verdict. From the right wing media, on my Facebook feed, etc. If Martin were your son there is no way you would accept this verdict.

    I was on duty in America's arson capital when this verdict came down. A lot of my coworkers shook their heads, as did I (a white guy), but it didn't prompt civil unrest. I think it should have.
    Brilliant post Jesus Christ are you F***ing insane or what? I agree that his death was a needless tragedy and I have stated so here, on facebook, and very unpopularly on a gun forum I belong to. But I see absolutley no benefit in civil unrest that leads to violence, destruction of property and possibly more deaths.

    I suppose a few more fires and crime in Detroit would hardly get noticed where civil unrest seems to be a way of life. It sure has worked out well there hasn't it?
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    Forum Member snowball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitFF View Post
    You think Trevon's dad wasn't involved in his life? I hate to tell you my man, but you can't protect your kids from a zealot with a gun.
    I never said he wasn't, I just generalized my answer to your "what if" question. I also never picked a side as you obviously have. Like I said, there's only two people that know exactly what went down that night. I started this thread as a heads up to guys like you and I who can be in the middle of a war zone in minutes. My subsequent responses were about the complete disregard by the media to relay facts for the sake of sensationalism. I don't know where you picked up on racism in this thread bro, can you help me out with that?
    IAFF

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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitFF View Post
    You think Trevon's dad wasn't involved in his life? I hate to tell you my man, but you can't protect your kids from a zealot with a gun.
    Honestly..No. Alot of talk about if Zimmerman stayed in the car.. Didn't follow him etc..

    How about if trayvon was home getting ready for bed.. Perhaps studying or reading. Researching colleges or military options online.. Watching TV with his father..

    When I was 17 if I wasn't working I was home by that time..and if I was working I came right home. I had a car and a cell phone and knew that was a privledge that could be taken away.. I understood consequences.

    If trayvon Just ran home, ran away, called the cops, called his dad... Called anyone.. He would still be alive.

    But instead... He chose to start a physical altercation with Zimmerman..
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    I'm sorry to derail the thread but.. No one who is a civil servant weather it be cop, emt, firefighter... Should think that a riot is even an option..

    We're supposed to save life and property not state that destroying life and property is an appropriate response.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigGriffC12 View Post
    Honestly..No. Alot of talk about if Zimmerman stayed in the car.. Didn't follow him etc..

    How about if trayvon was home getting ready for bed.. Perhaps studying or reading. Researching colleges or military options online.. Watching TV with his father..

    When I was 17 if I wasn't working I was home by that time..and if I was working I came right home. I had a car and a cell phone and knew that was a privledge that could be taken away.. I understood consequences.

    If trayvon Just ran home, ran away, called the cops, called his dad... Called anyone.. He would still be alive.

    But instead... He chose to start a physical altercation with Zimmerman..
    Sorry, he didn't start anything. You may not like the truth here but if Zimmerman DOES STAY IN HIS CAR this event does NOT occur.

    Your insinuation that because he is out, walking back from the store, he provoked the incident is frankly ridiculous. Once again, ZIMMERMAN provoked the incident playing super hero.
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    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigGriffC12 View Post
    I'm sorry to derail the thread but.. No one who is a civil servant weather it be cop, emt, firefighter... Should think that a riot is even an option..

    We're supposed to save life and property not state that destroying life and property is an appropriate response.
    Yet you are okay with Zimmerman intervening, getting his *** kicked, and then shooting Trayvon...
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    Unless you sat in the courtroom for the entire case and heard all the evidence presented....you are all conjecturing.

    The "facts" were discussed in court. The news stations report (for the most part) their versions of those "facts".
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Unless you sat in the courtroom for the entire case and heard all the evidence presented....you are all conjecturing.

    The "facts" were discussed in court. The news stations report (for the most part) their versions of those "facts".

    we arent arguing if zimmerman is guilty of murder or not, what i believe fyredup is arguing is the fact that none of this would even be if zimmerman didn't try to play hero and get out of his vehicle which he was directed would not be a smart move... there were no witnesses to anything in that altercation, 1 guy saw people wrestling that was it, but what happened before or after is only known between 2 people, 1 of those is dead

    i agree with fyredup, was he probably in the right to shoot martin after getting his *** kicked yea, but was the whole situation avoidable yes... there is nothing illegal about a 17 year old walking through ANY neighborhood, with skittles and an iced tea..

    and BigGriff im sorry you were what seems a goody goody but when I was 17, i also had a cell phone and access to my parents car with permission, but i would also walk to the corner store whenever i wanted... even on school nights if i was still awake at midnight i had no qualms with walking to the store... i also just looked it up, he was shot at like 7:30pm so let me know the last time you heard of someone going to sleep at 7:30pm that is under the age of 75
    Last edited by ladder9volley; 07-14-2013 at 11:07 PM.

  11. #31
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    Default "Innocent" 17 YO? I think not.

    Quote Originally Posted by ladder9volley View Post
    ...there is nothing illegal about a 17 year old walking through ANY neighborhood, with skittles and an iced tea..
    Maybe not, unless you know about "Lean," also known in southern hip-hop culture as "Sizzurp" and "Purple Drank."

    More about it here, , along with an interesting timeline.

    Might change your opinion about the whole thing...
    Last edited by tree68; 07-14-2013 at 11:13 PM. Reason: Syntax Errors
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  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by tree68 View Post
    Maybe not, unless you know about "Lean," also known in southern hip-hop culture as "Sizzurp" and "Purple Drank."

    More about it here, , along with an interesting timeline.

    Might change your opinion about the whole thing...

    so where does it say he was high on "lean" during this whole thing?? all it says is he probably smoked a blunt before walking or running back to his dads g/fs house... marijuana has reportedly made people paranoid.. so he got paranoid that someone was following/watching him and started running.. im still not sure

    why did that make george get out of his truck and do any type of snooping.. i mean he is the neighborhood watch(edit: he isnt just a neighborhod watch, he is the captain of it) he should atleast know the layout of his complex and the surrounding streets.. as firefighters we know our cities layouts not just a couple blocks and a single neighborhood...
    his job is to observe the neighborhood and report to the police if he sees something suspicious(which he did do).. his job is not to play police and try and confront ANYBODY...

    and once again there is nothing illegal about a "cigar", or iced tea, or skittles... unless he replaces the tobacco inside that cigar with marijuana it is simply a cigar(which for 17 is still illegal i suppose) and unless he adds "cough syrup"(and thats only if he doesnt have a prescription) to that arizona and skittles then it is simply candy and a drink..

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by tree68 View Post
    Maybe not, unless you know about "Lean," also known in southern hip-hop culture as "Sizzurp" and "Purple Drank."

    More about it here, , along with an interesting timeline.

    Might change your opinion about the whole thing...
    AGAIN, and for the LOVE OF GOD, why people can't see the so F***ingly obvious with this case is beyond me, if Zimmerman calls the police, as he did, stays in his car at a safe distance, like the dispatcher told him to do, and reports Trayvon's movements to the police, no confrontation occurs, no fight breaks out, and no shooting and subsequent death occurs.

    I don't give a crap if he was stoned off his azz, if Zimmerman stays out of it, no confrontation occurs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Nope, stated facts in evidence in post 6.
    You stated that you BELIEVE Zimmerman provoked it by getting involved physically. Sorry, but what you BELIEVE is not a fact. So you did speculate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ladder9volley View Post
    we arent arguing if zimmerman is guilty of murder or not, what i believe fyredup is arguing is the fact that none of this would even be if zimmerman didn't try to play hero and get out of his vehicle which he was directed would not be a smart move...
    While I totally agree with the fact that had Zimmerman stayed in his car this wouldn't have happened, he didn't. You can what-if it to any degree you want, but the fact is that he left his car, which did not violate any laws. He followed Martin, which also didn't violate any laws. He was legally carrying a firearm, again no violation of law. Similarly, Martin wen to the store. Didn't violate the law. Martin walked home cutting though the neighborhood. Didn't violate any law (question as to the legality of the "gated community" trespassing? Still not a actionable crime). At some point Martin and Zimmerman met and only one can say what happened and who violated the law. Zimmerman shot Martin and he died, which given the single story provided, under the law regarding Justifiable Use of Force, was not a violation.

    So while we might agree that under the "Cause and Affect" rules Zimmerman could have prevented all of this, he according to our system of justice and FL law, committed no crime. He will live with this for the rest of his life. How hard this is really depends on exactly what he knows to have happened.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    AGAIN, and for the LOVE OF GOD, why people can't see the so F***ingly obvious with this case is beyond me, if Zimmerman calls the police, as he did, stays in his car at a safe distance, like the dispatcher told him to do, and reports Trayvon's movements to the police, no confrontation occurs, no fight breaks out, and no shooting and subsequent death occurs.

    I don't give a crap if he was stoned off his azz, if Zimmerman stays out of it, no confrontation occurs.
    While we agree wholeheartedly, Zimmerman is not guilty of a crime for acting like an idiot. We might agree that future laws should be more detailed to ensure that armed citizens with no actual duty to act, should not be allowed to intervene unless an actual deadly force crime is imminent or taking place. Again, this would merely be an answer to any future case such as this.

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    Unfortunately for Zimmerman, this isn't over.

    It's probably likely that the feds will come after him, if for no other reason satisfy the political need that will ... or actually, already has been .... ginned up by the media and the NAACP, etc, etc.

    He likely will also face a civil suit, where the burden of proof is much lower.
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    The FBI found no evidence of the events being a hate crime.
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    Quote Originally Posted by captnjak View Post
    You stated that you BELIEVE Zimmerman provoked it by getting involved physically. Sorry, but what you BELIEVE is not a fact. So you did speculate.
    I didn't speculate at all.

    FACT: Zimmerman followed Trayvon.
    FACT: Zimmerman contacted the police and was told by the dispatcher not to get involved.
    FACT: Zimmerman disobeyed that directive, got out of his car, approached Trayvon, and a fight ensued.

    So if you follow the logical sequence, Zimmerman exiting his car and approaching Trayvon provoked this incident. I don't care who started the fight, and we will never know for sure who did, the mere fact that Zimmerman, against the dispatchers directive got out of his car and approached Trayvon, provoked the confrontation.
    Last edited by FyredUp; 07-15-2013 at 12:55 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    While we agree wholeheartedly, Zimmerman is not guilty of a crime for acting like an idiot. We might agree that future laws should be more detailed to ensure that armed citizens with no actual duty to act, should not be allowed to intervene unless an actual deadly force crime is imminent or taking place. Again, this would merely be an answer to any future case such as this.
    Reckless endangerment - He provoked and altercation with another person, whom he suspected of "being on drugs"; a logical outcome would be a physical altercation. Provoking such a physical altercation when armed with deadly force (concealed carry) is reckless endangerment.

    Obstructing governmental affairs - After reporting a suspicious action, Mr. Zimmerman refused to obey the orders given on behalf of law enforcement. This directly affected the ability of law enforcement to investigate the complaint given by Mr. Zimmerman.

    There are 2 laws that he could have easily been found guilty of. At this time, Double Jeopardy is in effect and he can no longer be criminally charged with these offenses as he has been acquitted of charges from this one incident.

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