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Thread: If the demographic fits, hope they don't acquit

  1. #476
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    ...And unconstitutional.

    Deal with those who have guns illegally or are using them illegally. As Fryed has discussed, create national mandated sentences for gun violence so the thugs that use them are locked away for a long time with NO chance of getting out early. Punish them hard and with certainly. If nothing else, it will put them away from society for a long time.
    Constitution can be changed. And maybe it should be changed.

    No problems here with tougher sentences and punishment.
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    I didn't what if a single thing.
    But I will admit, like it or not, fire arms are protected by the 2nd amendment. I know I'm silly, but I happen to feel as strong about that one as I do the rest.
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    Constitution can be changed. And maybe it should be changed.
    I agree, lets change the 1st amendment-the President doesn't agree with Bill Reilly or Fox news, so the government should be able to censor them.
    The 3rd-hell army barracks are expensive to keep up, lets quarter the military at your house.
    The 4th-most people don't break the law so it should be acceptable the government searches your home and any time.
    The 5th-silly due process....
    the 6th-most won't be arrested in their life time, so a fair and speedy trail wont affect the most of us.
    Same with the 7th-trails cost money and are not always effective.
    8th-debtors prison worked well...
    15th/19th-its been proven over and over again, most people don't vote. So we should limit those that can.
    WTF...?
    Last edited by SPFDRum; 02-06-2014 at 08:59 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    I agree, lets change the 1st amendment-the President doesn't agree with Bill Reilly or Fox news, so the government should be able to censor them.
    There are numerous laws that have been passed over the years that restrict free speech.

    One of my former crew worked in military intelligence where he had access to Top Secret information. He wasn't allowed to discuss without penalty of prosecution.

    There are numerous other examples that pertain to the 1st Amendment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    T

    There are numerous other examples that pertain to the 1st Amendment.
    While very true, it's already know the 2nd has restrictions on it as well. It appears the left is pushing for restriction to the point of absolving the 2nd all together. Many believe that the phrase "shall not be infringed" has already been violated. The wording, taken in the most literal sense would mean all laws pertaining to firearms ownership are in violation. Other amendments are not so pointed.

    While it's far from reality today in the US, the only thing between an armed government and a dictatorship is the ability of the people to fight back. This is happening globally, so it's not a complete "when it was written" issue. I fear not that happening here in my time, but it is amazing/sad what countrymen do, to fellow countrymen when their told it's for the good of their nation.
    Last edited by RFDACM02; 02-05-2014 at 11:55 PM. Reason: keyboard caused misspelled words

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    So what part of the 2nd Amendment will be affected by universal background checks?

    How will the right to bear arms be infringed?
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    You all are consistent.

    As are you. Toe the company line for MORE gun control on law abiding citizens but oppose a standardized penalty for gun related crime. Talk about stupid beyond belief. Punish the innocent and defend not adequately punishing the guilty all across he board.

    Any discussion of gun policy leads to an infinite amount of "what ifs" and "what abouts."

    Any discussion of standardized penalties leads to nonsensical indefensible local control of the judicial process and punishment phase of gun crime and then support of a standardized national gun control policy. Talk about a ludicrous example of how you spin yourself around and around.

    We as a nation have numerous requirements to own or manufacture any number of things we touch daily.

    Indeed we do, how many are a guaranteed constitutional right though?

    Yet somehow firearms are sacrosanct and should never be examined.

    Perhaps, but I would rather discuss firearms with someone who doesn't have a ridiculous indefensible position and is so eager to disassemble constitutional rights that don't appeal to them.
    Try harder to act like you really want to discuss this rather than just agitate. You are so transparent itis pathetic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    So what part of the 2nd Amendment will be affected by universal background checks?

    How will the right to bear arms be infringed?
    Why does anyone need to know what firearms I as a law abiding citizen buy or own? My right to privacy is being infringed upon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Try harder to act like you really want to discuss this rather than just agitate. You are so transparent itis pathetic.
    Please come up with something other than a tyrannical government coming to get your guns because of universal background checks. You are so transparent its pathetic.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Please come up with something other than a tyrannical government coming to get your guns because of universal background checks. You are so transparent its pathetic.
    Katrina...Game, Set, and Match. Law abiding citizens, staying on their property to prevent looting, were illegally, and forcibly, disarmed and some to this day have not had their firearms returned and more than likely never will.

    Funny how you cried for 8 years about a tyrannical republican president, but now worrying about tyrannical government because the pres is in your party is lunatic fringe. Pretty laughable really.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Katrina...Game, Set, and Match. Law abiding citizens, staying on their property to prevent looting, were illegally, and forcibly, disarmed and some to this day have not had their firearms returned and more than likely never will.
    Which has nothing to do with universal background checks.....check and mate.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  12. #487
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Which has nothing to do with universal background checks.....check and mate.
    The failure, and that being one of epic proportions, is the mental health component. Now I can't speak as a mental health professional, but my wife can-as of right now, with HIPPA, a mental health patient under care or not, can NOT have their mental health back grounded or disclosed. Well that is right up to the point they commit a grievous felony. Even then the hurdles are immense. Until then, its still going to have the 800# gorilla in the room.
    Another glaring failure, the ability to plea bargain. Joe Criminal uses gun in a felonious way/crime, the local DA, looking for out for political career, will plea bargain the case down just to get a conviction. Low and behold, no more felony on Joe Criminal's record. Guess who can still pass a background check to buy a gun? Maybe starting there would be a better idea.

    As for the restrictions on the 1st amendment, true. But there was in cities an outright ban on handguns. To make that anything other than a strawman argument, the same type of ban would be need in place; such as banning internet new sources, or say Fox news.....
    By the way, if bans, laws and restrictions where so effective, the south side of Chicago would be an Utopian paradise.
    Last edited by SPFDRum; 02-06-2014 at 11:58 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    So what part of the 2nd Amendment will be affected by universal background checks?

    How will the right to bear arms be infringed?
    As a liberal, $10 bucks says that you oppose any effort by the states to require any of those pesky picture IDs for anyone registering to vote or to vote, and yet you seem to have no issues with enacting additional hoops and requirements to acquire a gun, which is also a right guaranteed by the Constitution.

    Why are requirements OK for one and not the other?

    Ummmmmmmm .. Game, Set, Match?
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 02-06-2014 at 10:16 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    So what part of the 2nd Amendment will be affected by universal background checks?

    How will the right to bear arms be infringed?
    The problem is that you and I know that the background checks will be minimally successful at best and by the tone of your posts throughout, you and others will only see the checks as a necessary step toward further restrictions. Please explain somebody's actual universal background check plan. it sounds great as a two-word battle cry, but lacks any substance.

    The biggest obstacle/hurdle for Universal Background checks:3

    Mental health. Good luck, you'll be fighting the rest of the left when you start using government funded agencies to "label" people with any level of mental illness. Where might that stop? If you can't own a gun due to mental health issues, can you own a car? Would employers be allowed to know this status and use it to protect their workers from other non- gun violence, after all the government thinks these people have the potential for violence, right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    As for the restrictions on the 1st amendment, true. But there was in cities an outright ban on handguns. To make that anything other than a strawman argument, the same type of ban would be need in place; such as banning internet new sources, or say Fox news.....
    By the way, if bans, laws and restrictions where so effective, the south side of Chicago would be an Utopian paradise.
    I've never advocated an outright ban on handguns.

    I'm advocating for universal background checks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    As a liberal, $10 bucks says that you oppose any effort by the states to require any of those pesky picture IDs for anyone registering to vote or to vote, and yet you seem to have no issues with enacting additional hoops and requirements to acquire a gun, which is also a right guaranteed by the Constitution.

    Why are requirements OK for one and not the other?

    Ummmmmmmm .. Game, Set, Match?
    I know you're easily distracted by shiny objects and running squirrels. I'm not discussing Voter ID laws.

    I'm discussing the advocacy of universal background checks.

    Please try and focus.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    The problem is that you and I know that the background checks will be minimally successful at best and by the tone of your posts throughout, you and others will only see the checks as a necessary step toward further restrictions. Please explain somebody's actual universal background check plan. it sounds great as a two-word battle cry, but lacks any substance.

    The biggest obstacle/hurdle for Universal Background checks:3

    Mental health. Good luck, you'll be fighting the rest of the left when you start using government funded agencies to "label" people with any level of mental illness. Where might that stop? If you can't own a gun due to mental health issues, can you own a car? Would employers be allowed to know this status and use it to protect their workers from other non- gun violence, after all the government thinks these people have the potential for violence, right?
    It's better than letting irresponsible people (ie folks confront cookie selling girl scouts) have access to firearms.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    We have numerous controls that are not working as well as we all can agree they should, I'm still yet to be convinced more will be the answer.
    If we could only agree on "reasonable and prudent" we'd be as close to Utopia as we could ever find. I do not think we should throw in the towel, in fact I think both sides need to make reasonable concessions that work toward the common goal. I'd be all for registration and universal background checks if I was shown that as long as law abiding reasonable people would be free to continue owning the firearm they choose.
    If a criminal has access to firearms of any type, then someone wishing to defend themselves and family should not be restricted. Numerous cases show that magazine capacity is a factor. See the North Hollywood shootout as a prime example of the police being outgunned, where most people in the hunting community would have been better prepared. Yes, an extreme example. 6-10 shots when your fight of flight response kicks in is pretty small. It's easy for people to say if you were a good shot you'd not need more than one, but those who've never been in true fear for their life really cannot comprehend the physical state one can be in when it actually happens. This is why trained policemen with perfect marksman scores for years suddenly dump full magazines with few hits when in a true firefight.
    Not as rare as you'd think. One site I visit shows 2-3 a week and that just those they find on the AP wire. Not to mention its far easier to ignore the issue when it's not personal, if it happens to a loved one the perspective changes dramatically. This is where reasonable law abiding citizens should have the choice to elect to take responsibility for themselves if they desire.
    2-3 times a week on the AP wire is not a lot. Illegal use of guns is so widespread that the AP probably doesn't even find it newsworthy. Do they even report gun crimes other than the super sensational acts? I doubt it.

    You say the current gun control laws don't work. That is not a reason to give up. What about making them stronger so they do work? Wouldn't that be the logical move?

    I do agree with those who say we need to lock up the criminals who use guns. Lock em up and throw away the key. But that only works for the ones we catch. How many times do they use that gun before they're caught.

    Let's face it. It's just too damn easy for the wrong people to get guns in this country.

    Free speech comes with restrictions.
    Commerce comes with restrictions.
    Freedom of religion comes with restrictions.
    These are all constitutionally protected just as gun ownership is. No reason why the right to bear arms should not come with restrictions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I know you're easily distracted by shiny objects and running squirrels. I'm not discussing Voter ID laws.

    I'm discussing the advocacy of universal background checks.

    Please try and focus.
    They are both constitutional rights.

    The left wants one without such silly restrictions as photo IDs to make sure the person that is voting is the person on the roll, and they want to make the other as complicated as possible even dor those that will use the right (the gun) legally and responsibly.

    What I am not distracted by is the inconsistency of the left over the very different application of 2 constitutional rights.

    As far as the running squirrels, they are tasty to eat, especially in a stew.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    They are both constitutional rights.

    The left wants one without such silly restrictions as photo IDs to make sure the person that is voting is the person on the roll, and they want to make the other as complicated as possible even dor those that will use the right (the gun) legally and responsibly.

    What I am not distracted by is the inconsistency of the left over the very different application of 2 constitutional rights.

    As far as the running squirrels, they are tasty to eat, especially in a stew.
    One involves the right to vote, the other involves a device that can kill you. Context is key in this case.

    Unless you can show me where a crazy man ran into a theater and polled a dozen people ot death.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    One involves the right to vote, the other involves a device that can kill you. Context is key in this case.

    Unless you can show me where a crazy man ran into a theater and polled a dozen people ot death.
    Doesn't matter as they are both a constitutional right.

    If you believe that impending one is OK, you can't believe in impeding another.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 02-06-2014 at 11:26 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Doesn't matter as they are both a constitutional right.

    If you believe that impending one is OK, you can't believe in impeding another.

    Well, unless you are a lefty.
    I'm discussing universal background checks for firearms purchases. If you want to discuss voter ID laws feel free to start a new thread.
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    I've stated 2 very big reasons why universal background checks, let me add some light reading to back it up.
    Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, fourth edition (DSM-IV).
    Most mood disorders; including major depressive disorder, dysthymic disorder, and bipolar disorder, are diagnosed at the average age of 30. One could own plenty of firearms by then.....

    Lets try something novel, like enforcing the numerous, more like hundreds, of gun laws on the books. No plea bargaining.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    It's better than letting irresponsible people (ie folks confront cookie selling girl scouts) have access to firearms.
    I received this in an email, seems fitting:
    "We are advised to NOT judge ALL Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics, but we are encouraged to judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics. Funny how that works."

    hy·poc·ri·sy
    hiˈpäkrisē
    noun
    1.
    the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.
    RFDACM02 likes this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    I've stated 2 very big reasons why universal background checks, let me add some light reading to back it up.
    Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, fourth edition (DSM-IV).
    Most mood disorders; including major depressive disorder, dysthymic disorder, and bipolar disorder, are diagnosed at the average age of 30. One could own plenty of firearms by then.....

    Lets try something novel, like enforcing the numerous, more like hundreds, of gun laws on the books. No plea bargaining.
    If mental illness was the only factor I would agree with you. There are others.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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