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Thread: If the demographic fits, hope they don't acquit

  1. #641
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    "People with knives kill people".
    "People with baseball bats kill people".
    "People with tire irons kill people".
    "People with ropes kill people".
    "People with poison kill people".
    "People with cars kill people".
    "People with all kinds of other weapons kill people"

    Ban them all?

    The fact is guns kill a small majority of the folks in this country compared to other weapons. And mass killings are actually down compared to 20-30 years ago.

    So why is there no great push to ban the stuff that kills the majority of the people?

    Again Restricting the ownership of guns to law abiding people will do squat to stop murders in this country, unless of course you believe the Kool-Aid that the left is serving.
    I seriously doubt the veracity of your so called facts. I am so happy that mass killings are down compared to 20-3- years ago.

    Let's consider this:
    Most knives are not designed or sold for the purpose of killing.
    Baseball bats are not designed or sold for the purpose of killing.
    Tire irons are not designed or sold for the purpose of killing.
    Rope is not designed or sold for the purpose of killing.
    Poison is not designed or sold for the purpose of killing.
    Cars are not designed or sold for the purpose of killing.
    I think it's clear what these items are designed and sold to do.

    For what purpose are guns designed and sold?

    Ban all guns? No. Why can't there be a middle ground? Why is it all or nothing for you?


  2. #642
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    No moral high ground, but what you are telling me, criminals will still find a way to illegally obtain guns, no matter what local or federal laws are in place. What laws are you advocating to add to prevent this? It all falls back to the notion of how many laws broken is enough to realize that there are people hell bent on murder and destruction. Gun or no gun?
    Using the logic that scared New Yorker's into stricter guns laws, should there be a near zero incidence of gun crime?
    You used constitutional rights as a possible reason the soda size law was struck down in New York. With this in mind, what does "shall not be infringed upon" mean to you?


    If it weren't for the easily accessible gun pipeline from out of state, NYC might actually have less gun crime.

    What does "a well regulated militia" mean to YOU?

  3. #643
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by captnjak View Post
    What does "a well regulated militia" mean to YOU?
    According to the Founding Fathers it meant having one's weapons registered and available for inspection on a regular basis.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  4. #644
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    Quote Originally Posted by captnjak View Post
    I seriously doubt the veracity of your so called facts. I am so happy that mass killings are down compared to 20-3- years ago.

    Let's consider this:
    Most knives are not designed or sold for the purpose of killing.
    Baseball bats are not designed or sold for the purpose of killing.
    Tire irons are not designed or sold for the purpose of killing.
    Rope is not designed or sold for the purpose of killing.
    Poison is not designed or sold for the purpose of killing.
    Cars are not designed or sold for the purpose of killing.
    I think it's clear what these items are designed and sold to do.

    For what purpose are guns designed and sold?

    Ban all guns? No. Why can't there be a middle ground? Why is it all or nothing for you?
    And most guns are not purchased for killing people.

    Target shooting. Hunting. Defense.

    And yes, in some cases, but few, very few, killing people.

    So that argument doesn't hold water.

    As far as middle ground, I'm more than willing to continue to restrict fully automatic weapons. I'm more than happy to continue to restrict felons.

    But to restrict based on a history, or lack of history of "responsible behavior" (Whatever the hell that is)? No. Restrict guns that are not fully automatic and do not meet the criteria for assault weapons, but "look like" assault weapons? Hell no. And limit the size of magazines? No.

    Those are all infringements on our constitutional rights and will not do anything for the problem, especially when the vast majority of murders are NOT committed using guns.

    The mental health restriction scares the hell out of me as it could easily be abused, assuming it could even make it past HIPPA. which right now it can't.

    Where we are right now is fine.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 02-10-2014 at 04:27 PM.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  5. #645
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Where we are right now is fine.
    I'm betting there are parents in Littleton, CO and Newtown, CT that would disagree with you.

    I'd love for you to get up in front of that group and say, "no need to change anything, everything is fine."
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I'm betting there are parents in Littleton, CO and Newtown, CT that would disagree with you.

    I'd love for you to get up in front of that group and say, "no need to change anything, everything is fine."
    They would have that right, but the fact is that the kind of regulation that you are talking about would have done nothing to prevent those incidents.

    Sometimes bad things happen to good people.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  7. #647
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I'm betting there are parents in Littleton, CO and Newtown, CT that would disagree with you.

    I'd love for you to get up in front of that group and say, "no need to change anything, everything is fine."
    They would have that right, but the fact is that the kind of regulation that you are talking about would have done nothing to prevent those incidents.

    Sometimes bad things happen to good people.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  8. #648
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I'm betting there are parents in Littleton, CO and Newtown, CT that would disagree with you.

    I'd love for you to get up in front of that group and say, "no need to change anything, everything is fine."
    They would have that right, but the fact is that the kind of regulation that you are talking about would have done nothing to prevent those incidents.

    Sometimes bad things happen to good people.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  9. #649
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    Using Sandy Hook, or other mass shootings really is pointless. As tragic as they where, and don't miss quote me, they where tragic, all occurred in places that specifically banned guns. So no amount of restrictions would have lessened the horror. Why, they where the only one(s) there with a gun. They could shoot, reload and terrorize with impunity. Right up to the moment others responded with, wait for it........guns!!!!

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    Double post off my cell phone..
    Last edited by SPFDRum; 02-10-2014 at 05:40 PM.

  11. #651
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    Quote Originally Posted by captnjak View Post
    If it weren't for the easily accessible gun pipeline from out of state, NYC might actually have less gun crime.
    So if current laws when't being broken with this "easily accessible", of which I would like you to provide a source that this in fact the root cause by the way, there would be less crime?
    Some acceptable facts would be:
    Proof felons are able to purchase guns out of state.
    Proof the 30 day federal waiting period for handguns is being ignored.
    Proof that there are no federally required background checks being performed out of state.

    What does "a well regulated militia" mean to YOU?
    I knew while posting you would not have the ability to answer my question concerning being infringed upon. It is usually the case when one has no substance other then their own emotion when arguing facts.
    But I will answer yours. A militia is of the people. I am people. I can guarantee I am well regulated. Expounding on SC's post, my guns are registered with me and they are regularly inspected.
    Last edited by SPFDRum; 02-10-2014 at 05:37 PM.
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  12. #652
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I'm betting there are parents in Littleton, CO and Newtown, CT that would disagree with you.

    I'd love for you to get up in front of that group and say, "no need to change anything, everything is fine."
    I could, for one very simple fact, every single gun law passed prior too, and since would have not prevented the tragedy.
    Passing laws for the sake of passing laws to feel good is akin to p i s s ing on a forest fire.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
    "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
    George Mason
    Co-author of the Second Amendment
    during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
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    Quote Originally Posted by captnjak View Post
    Maybe the only gun crime in your area is the illegal sale of guns to criminals in Chicago.
    Show me proof of one case of a law abiding, legal, gun owner in my area buying guns to transport to Chicago to sell. My bet is you won't find any. Most people with gun around here buy them for one, or all of the following reasons, hunting, target shooting, trap shooting, or self defense. Many have guns that were there grandfather's hunting guns.

    I don't disbelieve you that guns come into NYC from outside the city. But machine guns are not coming from gun shows. A machine gun owner is responsible for a paper trail every time that weapon is sold and a tax payment to the feds. No one is going to sell a legally owned machine gun in an illegal deal because it could be tracked right back to them.

    You want universal laws and universal enforcement. SC wants universal laws and each locality to decide punishment. With the rampant corrupton in some places that would allow for no penalties at all.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
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  14. #654
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Show me proof of one case of a law abiding, legal, gun owner in my area buying guns to transport to Chicago to sell.
    When Cory Booker was mayor of Newark he addressed that issue. The majority of the guns used to commit crimes in his city were from out of state.

    Here is a recent article that addresses what's being called the:

    Iron Pipeline.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  15. #655
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I'm betting there are parents in Littleton, CO and Newtown, CT that would disagree with you.

    I'd love for you to get up in front of that group and say, "no need to change anything, everything is fine."
    Both cases involved mentally disturbed individuals that gun laws would have had no effect on. Nice try.

    How about you get up in front of Randy Weaver and explain to him how having his unarmed wife executed by an FBI sniper while holding their baby in her arms and his son killed by federal agents is justified by a phony trumped up gun charge? Or the relatives of the children killed in Waco because of a botched federal firearms raid? The facts are David Koresh could have easily been arrested dozens of times on the streets of Waco, but they chose to assault the compound and in the end 76 people died.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  16. #656
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    When Cory Booker was mayor of Newark he addressed that issue. The majority of the guns used to commit crimes in his city were from out of state.

    Here is a recent article that addresses what's being called the:

    Iron Pipeline.
    First of all, straw purchases are illegal. Thus the persons buying those guns are not law abiding legal gun owners. Yet nothing you propose would stop those purchases.

    Remember the 2 firefighters shot and killed in the ambush? Thse guns were purchased in a straw purchase by some lady friend of the murderer. How would you plan have stopped that? She was legally able to buy the guns, he was not.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  17. #657
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    Don, existing laws are already being broken in this so called "iron pipeline"? You don't say.....
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
    "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
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  18. #658
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And most guns are not purchased for killing people.

    Target shooting. Hunting. Defense.

    And yes, in some cases, but few, very few, killing people.

    So that argument doesn't hold water.

    As far as middle ground, I'm more than willing to continue to restrict fully automatic weapons. I'm more than happy to continue to restrict felons.

    But to restrict based on a history, or lack of history of "responsible behavior" (Whatever the hell that is)? No. Restrict guns that are not fully automatic and do not meet the criteria for assault weapons, but "look like" assault weapons? Hell no. And limit the size of magazines? No.

    Those are all infringements on our constitutional rights and will not do anything for the problem, especially when the vast majority of murders are NOT committed using guns.

    The mental health restriction scares the hell out of me as it could easily be abused, assuming it could even make it past HIPPA. which right now it can't.

    Where we are right now is fine.
    The vast majority of murders are not committed using guns? That non-fact has already been debunked on this forum. Hang it up already!

    Why are you hung up om murder? What about the non lethal shootings? Do they not count?

  19. #659
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    They would have that right, but the fact is that the kind of regulation that you are talking about would have done nothing to prevent those incidents.

    Sometimes bad things happen to good people.
    Bad things happen to good people? Like fires? Why then do we fight them? Shouldn't we just say, "Oh well too bad"? "Sorry for your misfortune?" Or do we take all reasonable measures to fight the fire?

    And where we are right now is NOT fine! Maybe YOU are fine. A whole lot of people are anything but.

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    Why are you hung up om murder? What about the non lethal shootings? Do they not count?
    Non-lethal and suicides are quickly jumped on by the anti-gun crowd. It has nothing to do with protecting children or saving society, but everything to do with how it skews the data. Making guns look like the anti-Christ to those sheep unwilling to fact check for themselves.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
    "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
    George Mason
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    during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
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