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Thread: If the demographic fits, hope they don't acquit

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    But he had no legal requirement to stay in his truck. What he was doing was legal.

    Martin responded with the illegal activity - Assault.
    Your assumption is Trayvon started the fight. No matter how many times you say it it simply can't be proven that that is what actually happened.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Your assumption is Trayvon started the fight. No matter how many times you say it it simply can't be proven that that is what actually happened.
    So you think Martin doubled back after he had lost Zimmerman to offer him some of his Iced Tea and Skittles?

    You are right. We don't know. But we do know that it's likely after he doubled back, which was a choice he easily could not have made, and hence, this could have been avoided, there was a confrontation, and $10 says that the confrontation was initiated by Martin.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    So you think Martin doubled back after he had lost Zimmerman to offer him some of his Iced Tea and Skittles?

    You are right. We don't know. But we do know that it's likely after he doubled back, which was a choice he easily could not have made, and hence, this could have been avoided, there was a confrontation, and $10 says that the confrontation was initiated by Martin.
    None of which can be proven because the only other real witness is dead. So your $10 bet is as hollow as most everything else you have ever said on here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Irrelevant, as Zimmerman was legally armed.
    I never said anything about the legality of Zimmerman's possession of a firearm. It is relevant because Martin may have indeed run the other way if he knew Zimmerman was armed.

    You're obviously confused on the point I was making. Not that that is anything new.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    So you think Martin doubled back after he had lost Zimmerman to offer him some of his Iced Tea and Skittles?

    You are right. We don't know. But we do know that it's likely after he doubled back, which was a choice he easily could not have made, and hence, this could have been avoided, there was a confrontation, and $10 says that the confrontation was initiated by Martin.
    All we have is Zimmerman's word for it that Martin initiated the confrontation. Since Zimmerman didn't take the stand, it is a point whose fact is not known. What we do know is that Zimmerman was following Martin. What we also know is that Zimmerman was acting outside his authority and that the Sanford PD admits that no illegal activity by Martin had occurred.
    Last edited by scfire86; 07-18-2013 at 02:55 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I never said anything about the legality of Zimmerman's possession of a firearm. It is relevant because Martin may have indeed run the other way if he knew Zimmerman was armed.

    You're obviously confused on the point I was making. Not that that is anything new.


    All we have is Zimmerman's word for it that Martin initiated the confrontation. Since Zimmerman didn't take the stand, it is a point whose fact is not known. What we do know is that Zimmerman was following Martin. What we also know is that Zimmerman was acting outside his authority and that the Sanford PD admits that no illegal activity by Martin had occurred.
    Outside of his authority?

    He lived in that gated community. He saw somebody who didn't look familiar and in his opinion, didn't look right was acting in a suspicious manner.

    As a resident of that community he has the right to keep an eye on him, and that right includes leaving his vehicle.

    And he was doing nothing illegal by keeping an eye on Martin, including following him.

    Sounds like somebody exercising his constitutional right to protect their property, and the property of his neighbors, to me.

    The fact is the left continues to blame Zimmerman for this and likes to cite all of his fully legal actions as proof. Simply not the case.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 07-18-2013 at 05:29 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    I don't believe I ever denied that Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman. I never denied that Trayvon was winning the fight.

    What you just simply refuse to see is if Zimmerman stays in his truck no confrontation occurs, no fight breaks out,Zimmerman doesn'r get his azz kicked and Trayvon doesn't get shot. It is all so simple.
    And if Trayvon had stayed out of a gated community that he didn't live in....

    Actually, it's ALL because Trayvon assaulted Zimmerman, it's THAT simple.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Outside of his authority?
    Even his Neighborhood Watch guidelines stipulate that firearms are not part of the policy.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    He lived in that gated community. He saw somebody who didn't look familiar and in his opinion, didn't look right was acting in a suspicious manner.

    As a resident of that community he has the right to keep an eye on him, and that right includes leaving his vehicle.
    Zimmerman has yet to detail that item. He didn't take the stand to describe what he believes was suspicious.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And he was doing nothing illegal by keeping an eye on Martin, including following him.
    And it has been established that Martin was doing nothing wrong either.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Sounds like somebody exercising his constitutional right to protect their property, and the property of his neighbors, to me.
    What was Martin doing that required protecting or property?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    The fact is the left continues to blame Zimmerman for this and likes to cite all of his fully legal actions as proof. Simply not the case.
    Since you believe the verdict was just, I'm sure you also agree that O.J. is innocent. Due process and all.
    Last edited by scfire86; 07-18-2013 at 06:11 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    And if Trayvon had stayed out of a gated community that he didn't live in....
    He was visiting his father's fiance.

    There is nothing in his past to indicate any type of criminal behavior. He was suspended from school for being tardy and marking "WTF."

    The claims of him being a street thug have no foundation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Your assumption is Trayvon started the fight. No matter how many times you say it it simply can't be proven that that is what actually happened.
    It's not an assumption, Zimmerman lost him, and Trayvon doubled back and confronted him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    He was visiting his father's fiance.

    There is nothing in his past to indicate any type of criminal behavior. He was suspended from school for being tardy and marking "WTF."

    The claims of him being a street thug have no foundation.
    Oh but you are SOOO wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    Oh but you are SOOO wrong.
    Really? What's his record?
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Really? What's his record?
    Don't know about any record with the fuzz. However he was on suspension from his school in Miami because drug residue was found in his backpack. That was the reason he was with his dad.

    The media continues to use old photos of TM. The ones where he is blowing smoke, flipping off the camera, dressed in thug apparel, and are recent photos of a correct age are not used. That is the media hard at work polishing a turd.
    Also, the pictures of GZ's busted nose, bloody and swollen face, and the back of his head bleeding from contact with cement, don't seem to make it on the news. They show him after his arrest 48 days later.
    I'm not taking sides because I believe both we're at fault, but the media has been caught trying to paint GZ as a racist already and continued on that path even after the court dismissed racism as a motive. Why? Because the aftermath of this creates news and sells papers. That is the medias motive and they know we are thirsty for a mudshake.
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowball View Post
    Don't know about any record with the fuzz. However he was on suspension from his school in Miami because drug residue was found in his backpack. That was the reason he was with his dad.
    Really. Drug residue? If we're going to open that door, how about the domestic violence issues Zimmerman has had over the years.

    Which one of those issues is an individual more prone to violence?

    We know Martin didn't have a history of that type of behavior.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Really. Drug residue?

    Which one of those issues is an individual more prone to violence?

    We know Martin didn't have a history of that type of behavior.
    Yes, drug residue, stolen jewelry, and a screwdriver that was described as a burglary tool.

    Thanks for making my point about mainstream media filtering the information given out.
    TM's Facebook page and his cell phone content paint a different picture, while his school records tell a different story.
    Just like GZ's past, TM's past were not allowed in the trial. Do you think that if it were allowed, it would have changed the outcome?

    I'm going to state this again. My issue is with the media's handling or mishandling of information to keep the racism wheels turning because that sells papers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowball View Post
    Yes, drug residue, stolen jewelry, and a screwdriver that was described as a burglary tool.

    Thanks for making my point about mainstream media filtering the information given out.
    TM's Facebook page and his cell phone content paint a different picture, while his school records tell a different story.
    Just like GZ's past, TM's past were not allowed in the trial. Do you think that if it were allowed, it would have changed the outcome?

    I'm going to state this again. My issue is with the media's handling or mishandling of information to keep the racism wheels turning because that sells papers.
    I get back to the FACT that Zimmerman or anyone else ever proved Martin was doing anything illegal that night. Nor did he have a record of doing anything illegal in his past.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    There is nothing in his past to indicate any type of criminal behavior. He was suspended from school for being tardy and marking "WTF."
    http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/2...t-trayvon.html

    Defacing school property is not criminal behavior? Being in possession of drug paraphernalia is not criminal behavior? Being in possession of jewelry from an unknown source is not criminal behavior. Just because a person has not been arrested for crimes does not mean their past is completely devoid of criminal activity.

    Go ahead and bring up GZ's past criminal behavior now, because frankly I haven't searched it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowball View Post
    http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/2...t-trayvon.html

    Defacing school property is not criminal behavior? Being in possession of drug paraphernalia is not criminal behavior? Being in possession of jewelry from an unknown source is not criminal behavior. Just because a person has not been arrested for crimes does not mean their past is completely devoid of criminal activity.

    Go ahead and bring up GZ's past criminal behavior now, because frankly I haven't searched it.
    I get back to the FACT that Zimmerman or anyone else ever proved Martin was doing anything illegal that night. Nor did he have a record of doing anything illegal in his past.

    You do realize that folks are innocent till proven guilty, right?
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I get back to the FACT that Zimmerman or anyone else ever proved Martin was doing anything illegal that night. Nor did he have a record of doing anything illegal in his past.
    See the above post. The kid had problems and it sounds like the parents recognized it and were doing their best to deal with it. Then this happened and naturally they, along with their attorney, did not want this information out in the open. I don't blame them for that. But to paint TM as Saint Skittles caused the media to dig deeper. Also, branding GZ as a racist added fuel to this wildfire. The judge I think, really had no choice but to not allow past history to be admitted as evidence of a violent history.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    You do realize that folks are innocent till proven guilty, right?
    You must have slid this in while I was typing.

    Yes, innocent until proven guilty. Unfortunately in the eyes of the world thanks in large part to mainstream media, GZ was not afforded that right. Do you agree?
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I get back to the FACT that Zimmerman or anyone else ever proved Martin was doing anything illegal that night. Nor did he have a record of doing anything illegal in his past.
    And nobody had proven that Zimmerman ever did anything illegal.

    Martin had the option to just leave things alone when her lost Zimmerman. Martin choose to double back and confront Zimmerman. It really is THAT simple.

    He decided to push the issue when it simply could have been over.

    And likely he threw the first punch.

    I think the trial and the evidence presented pretty much proved that Martin was the aggressor and likely performed the only illegal act that evening.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 07-19-2013 at 02:59 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And nobody had proven that Zimmerman ever did anything illegal.
    True. Though I could make the same statement about O.J. Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Martin had the option to just leave things alone when her lost Zimmerman. Martin choose to double back and confront Zimmerman. It really is THAT simple.
    We don't know who started the confrontation.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    He decided to push the issue when it simply could have been over.
    We don't know who started the confrontation.


    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And likely he threw the first punch.
    We don't know who started the confrontation.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I think the trial and the evidence presented pretty much proved that Martin was the aggressor and likely performed the only illegal act that evening.
    Not true. If I follow your logic, Zimmerman was the aggressor when he exited his car after being told to not do that. Had he stayed in his car Martin would have never been able to physically confront him on why he was being followed.

    Here's the hypothetical that Zimmerman's supporters are praying never happens. That an African American youth shoots someone claiming the same circumstances as Zimmerman. No one believes the NRA will be riding to the rescue.

    Heck, they didn't even support 50-cent on the movie poster of Get Rich or Die Tryin'.
    Last edited by scfire86; 07-19-2013 at 05:37 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And nobody had proven that Zimmerman ever did anything illegal.

    Perhaps not, but even you can't deny his actions were ill advised and stupid. Also counter to the neighborhood watch program.

    Martin had the option to just leave things alone when her lost Zimmerman. Martin choose to double back and confront Zimmerman. It really is THAT simple.

    Zimmerman had options to, including: 1) Not getting involved at all, 2) Staying in his vehicle and reporting Trayvon's direction of travel.

    He decided to push the issue when it simply could have been over.

    As did Zimmerman when he left his vehicle...not only would it have been over, it never had to happen. Trayvon wasn't doing anything illegal when Zimmerman started following him.

    And likely he threw the first punch.

    You have absolutely no way of knowing who threw the first punch. To claim you do is simply just another lie.

    I think the trial and the evidence presented pretty much proved that Martin was the aggressor and likely performed the only illegal act that evening.

    No all the trial proved that was at the moment that Zimmerman shot Trayvon he was getting his *** kicked and because of that the jury decided that Zimmerman shooting Trayvon was justified.
    Nice try but you didn't "Prove" anything.
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    Here's a good Youtube video of Massad Ayoob discussing many factors specific to this case: Castle Doctrine vs. Stand Your Ground, Reasonable Man Doctrine, Ability, Opportunity and Jeopardy, basically all the details of justifiable use of force and consequently times that it wouldn't apply.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irnD34P2l1w#at=509

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I get back to the FACT that Zimmerman or anyone else ever proved Martin was doing anything illegal that night. Nor did he have a record of doing anything illegal in his past.
    Beating the snot out of someone isn't illegal?
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    Beating the snot out of someone isn't illegal?
    Yes. After he was being stalked by Zimmerman. Zimmerman never proved Martin was doing anything illegal that warranted the scrutiny he was being given. The Sanford PD also stated they could find no proof of Martin doing anything illegal.
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