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Thread: If the demographic fits, hope they don't acquit

  1. #1101
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Just one problem. Washington had no problem excluding certain groups from being allowed to bear arms. Some of whom he knew personally. So really, there is no difference between him and the current administration.
    I threw out the bait knowing you couldn't help yourself...Consider yourself hooked!

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    But there is a difference...This president has made it clear he wants to disarm Americans, Washington wanted them armed, even with the acceptable exceptions of the times. The only reason Obama hasn't moved forward is because he knows it would decimate the democratic party's base and lead to sweeping defeats at all levels of government. The issue is, and is often forgotten by the ultra-left, many good democrats are gun owners and aren't any more willing to give them up than those on the right.
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  2. #1102
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    I threw out the bait knowing you couldn't help yourself...Consider yourself hooked!
    Funny. What's even funnier is that you continue to use a bad example to promote your idea of freedom.

    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    But there is a difference...This president has made it clear he wants to disarm Americans, Washington wanted them armed, even with the acceptable exceptions of the times. The only reason Obama hasn't moved forward is because he knows it would decimate the democratic party's base and lead to sweeping defeats at all levels of government. The issue is, and is often forgotten by the ultra-left, many good democrats are gun owners and aren't any more willing to give them up than those on the right.
    This president has never made it clear of any such thing. Unless you are one of those paranoid individuals who believes that any discussion of gun policy is a subtext for tyranny.


    You're the one that is hooked on a false ideal.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  3. #1103
    Forum Member Miller337's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Just one problem. Washington had no problem excluding certain groups from being allowed to bear arms. Some of whom he knew personally. So really, there is no difference between him and the current administration.
    Fine then. Here is a quote from someone else that you may be able to relate to more. 'Every communist must grasp the truth. Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.' Mao Tse-tung spit that little jewel. I kinda suspect he was figuring on being the one with all the guns though.

  4. #1104
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miller337 View Post
    Fine then. Here is a quote from someone else that you may be able to relate to more. 'Every communist must grasp the truth. Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.' Mao Tse-tung spit that little jewel. I kinda suspect he was figuring on being the one with all the guns though.
    Apparently many of the Founding Fathers were Mao's inspiration. Since they had no problem excluding groups of Americans from bearing arms and exerting their power over them.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  5. #1105
    Truckie SPFDRum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Apparently many of the Founding Fathers were Mao's inspiration. Since they had no problem excluding groups of Americans from bearing arms and exerting their power over them.
    Hate to rain on your parade, but this is completely false.
    Slaves where property.
    Indians where not considered "civilized", or in the words of Jefferson, "merciless savages". As ugly as that makes our founding Father's and their beliefs, that what it was.
    In their minds, they weren't even people, let alone American. Hence no rights to be extended.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
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  6. #1106
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    Hate to rain on your parade, but this is completely false.
    Slaves where property.
    Indians where not considered "civilized", or in the words of Jefferson, "merciless savages". As ugly as that makes our founding Father's and their beliefs, that what it was.
    In their minds, they weren't even people, let alone American. Hence no rights to be extended.
    So much for the beliefs of the Founding Fathers that were articulated in the words:

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--
    I guess the term "all men" really meant "all WHITE men."

    More importantly, it only proves my premise the Founding Fathers had no problem infringing the right to bear arms. Despite the soundbites in cute pics that were posted earlier.
    Last edited by scfire86; 02-25-2014 at 11:22 PM.
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  7. #1107
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    So much for the beliefs of the Founding Fathers that were articulated in the words:



    I guess the term "all men" really meant "all WHITE men."
    and no women either.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  8. #1108
    Truckie SPFDRum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    So much for the beliefs of the Founding Fathers that were articulated in the words:



    I guess the term "all men" really meant "all WHITE men."
    Well that may be true. But it is our history.
    But it isn't a new thought. Slavery has been a factor since the dawn of time. "Modern" slavery in Europe has been around since what, the 1400's? With all of the originals in the discovery and birth of the United States all being major players. Hell, even at our peak, we weren't even a major player in the global big picture of slavery. But that in no way makes it acceptable. So lets not put words in my mouth or take anything out of context.
    It's still going on as we speak in Africa....
    But never forget, we are the same country that spent of 600,000 lives to end that travesty.
    So to judge the founding Father's on what was an accepted practice with today's views is hypocritical at best.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
    "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
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  9. #1109
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    Well that may be true. But it is our history.
    But it isn't a new thought. Slavery has been a factor since the dawn of time. "Modern" slavery in Europe has been around since what, the 1400's? With all of the originals in the discovery and birth of the United States all being major players. Hell, even at our peak, we weren't even a major player in the global big picture of slavery. But that in no way makes it acceptable. So lets not put words in my mouth or take anything out of context.
    It's still going on as we speak in Africa....
    But never forget, we are the same country that spent of 600,000 lives to end that travesty.
    So to judge the founding Father's on what was an accepted practice with today's views is hypocritical at best.
    True. My point all along is the Founding Fathers are used to promote the idea of freedom and liberty. Many of them had no problem denying freedom and liberty to many. And that extended to the right to bear arms.

    Fyredup likes to talk about the lack of freedom I have in CA. Ironically one of the most restrictive gun laws in CA history was signed into law by then Gov. Reagan.
    Last edited by scfire86; 02-25-2014 at 11:34 PM.
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  10. #1110
    Truckie SPFDRum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    and no women either.
    This is true. Funny fact, we as a country passed a Constitutional amendment to guarantee woman's rights.
    Maybe there should be bans or restrictions on that? Maybe they need to be married/single? Have children/no children? Be educated at a certain level? Be employed? Be employed in only certain jobs?
    It's just a constitutional amendment. Some believe that it is living and breathing bill with these "unalienable rights" not truly guaranteed......
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
    "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
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    Truckie SPFDRum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    True. My point all along is the Founding Fathers are used to promote the idea of freedom and liberty. Many of them had no problem denying freedom and liberty to many. And that extended to the right to bear arms.
    Freedom to many that they did not even consider as valuable as a good horse. To them, I would guess it would be compared to extending rights to your dog.
    Fyredup likes to talk about the lack of freedom I have in CA. Ironically one of the most restrictive gun laws in CA history was signed into law by then Gov. Reagan.
    I'd need proof of that.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
    "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
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    during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
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  12. #1112
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    I'd need proof of that.
    Here you go.

    All because a couple of African American gentlemen decided to take a leisurely walk through the state capitol openly carrying their 2nd Amendment protected firearms.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  13. #1113
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Here you go.

    All because a couple of African American gentlemen decided to take a leisurely walk through the state capitol openly carrying their 2nd Amendment protected firearms.
    Wasn't hard at all. But the fact you demand proof from myself and others when we make a point, I guess I would have expected the same courtesy.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
    "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
    George Mason
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    during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
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    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Fyredup likes to talk about the lack of freedom I have in CA. Ironically one of the most restrictive gun laws in CA history was signed into law by then Gov. Reagan.
    Your point being what? That you want to incorrectly pigeon hole me as a radical right winger which couldn't be further from the truth. I am a non-aligned independent that on any given issue may go right or left. My continued support of Tammy Baldwin, who is considered a hard left leaner, because she is mostly good for our state, does her best to care for veterans, and she supports firefighters, seems to disprove your jaded view of me. I have an intense dislike for our hard right wing bought and paid for governor too. Sorry, nice try to slander me again with your misconceptions and lies.

    I voted against Reagan both times he ran for president. Further he was a crappy actor.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    This is true. Funny fact, we as a country passed a Constitutional amendment to guarantee woman's rights.
    Maybe there should be bans or restrictions on that? Maybe they need to be married/single? Have children/no children? Be educated at a certain level? Be employed? Be employed in only certain jobs?
    It's just a constitutional amendment. Some believe that it is living and breathing bill with these "unalienable rights" not truly guaranteed......
    It doesn't say "well regulated" women shall have the right to vote. Just says the right to vote can't be "denied or abridged" based on sex. Stronger wording than the second amendment.

  16. #1116
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    Wasn't hard at all. But the fact you demand proof from myself and others when we make a point, I guess I would have expected the same courtesy.
    I was surprised you didn't know. I thought that was pretty common knowledge.

    At the time Reagan stated, “There’s no reason why on the street today a citizen should be carrying loaded weapons.”

    He supported the Brady Bill that provided for a seven day waiting period and as president he signed into a law the prohibition of owning fully automatic weapons by private individuals.
    Last edited by scfire86; 02-26-2014 at 10:40 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I was surprised you didn't know. I thought that was pretty common knowledge.

    At the time Reagan stated, “There’s no reason why on the street today a citizen should be carrying loaded weapons.”

    He supported the Brady Bill that provided for a seven day waiting period and as president he signed into a law the prohibition of owning fully automatic weapons by private individuals.
    Not even Reagan was the perfect President.

    Pretty dang close though.

    Again, when you can show us how limiting the sale of guns to law abiding folks and how universal background checks will reduce gun violence, I'm all ears. But simply put, the FBI and DOJ data on how most folks that commit violent crime acquires weapons indicates that it will have minimal if any impact. You, and your liberal friends, seem not to want to address the hard facts in this situation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Again, when you can show us how limiting the sale of guns to law abiding folks and how universal background checks will reduce gun violence, I'm all ears.
    I'll be more than happy to show how that will help when you detail how your solutions would have prevented the mass shootings that are an infrequent occurrence in the US.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I'll be more than happy to show how that will help when you detail how your solutions would have prevented the mass shootings that are an infrequent occurrence in the US.
    Easy. They won't and they can't. As long as there are people on Earth, there will be killing. If there is even one working firearm in the world, it will be used for killing. Humans are going to do bad things to each other at some point.

    No one here has said that they have the solution other than you stating that "universal background checks" would. We have all stated that there are hundreds of laws on the books that are not being enforced and that possibly strict enforcement of these laws has as much, if not more of a chance at helping the situation more than any new laws. If the existing laws aren't enforced, how will the new ones be enforced?

    So now please, go ahead and show us exactly how it will help. We are all listening.

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    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuntPA View Post
    So now please, go ahead and show us exactly how it will help. We are all listening.
    Because we do know that universal background checks have stopped individuals from legally buying guns that shouldn't be allowed to bear arms.

    That is a good thing.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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