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Thread: Laying Duels

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    Default Laying Duels

    I'm dating myself here but this is Pre LDH. Back when I started we had a single layout of 2 1/2" hose, then we went to split bed. Whoo Hoo. Went away to College and came back to Split 3". Wow. Big Water. When the Office pulled the divider back between the cab and the jump seats and said we're laying duals, You were in for a fight. Anybody else except PG still remember that?






    (Kudos to Hwood.)
    Last edited by Truck_3; 07-20-2013 at 10:02 PM. Reason: misspell

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    Quote Originally Posted by Truck_3 View Post
    I'm dating myself here but this is Pre LDH. Back when I started we had a single layout of 2 1/2" hose, then we went to split bed. Whoo Hoo. Went away to College and came back to Split 3". Wow. Big Water. When the Office pulled the divider back between the cab and the jump seats and said we're laying duals, You were in for a fight. Anybody else except PG still remember that?

    (Kudos to Hwood.)
    My first POC FD originally had a split lay of one 3 inch and one 2 1/2, we normally only laid the 3 inch. Later to dual 3s, then to 5 inch.

    My career FD originally had dual 2 1/2s but we were set up to reverse lay. Now they have 5 inch.
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    Remember that as well.

    Still know of few VFDs where that is still the case.
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    16 of the 17 fire departments in my county still lay single 3" and a few lay double 3"'s. My department is the only one that lays 4 inch. We mostly just lay down long driveway and use dump tanks and water shuttles. Several of the fire chiefs and I are trying to get the fire department to realize you don't judge your needed hose lay by how hard it is to pick back up. You judge your hose lay but how big the fire is.
    RangerJake72 likes this.

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    We only have enough LDH for Engine 1 so Engine 2 has a split bed of 3". We only have a few hydrants in town that can keep up with what LDH can flow so Engine 1 usually grabs one of those and Engine 2 will just lay in a single 3". Most of the time we're drafting from porta-ponds and our supply line stays on the truck.

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    We still use 3" hose in Washington, DC. I actually laid dual lines last month at a four-alarm fire.

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    Years back our standard lay was a "horseshoe" of 2.5". There was some resistance when I suggested a split bed, but that eventually came to pass. The new engine (20 years ago) arrived with 5" on it, although we still have about 350' of 3" laid in the bed for lesser requirements.

    When we replaced the old "bridge" (water supply) engine (also laid with 2.5" in a horseshoe) with a heavy duty pickup, they didn't want to split the bed for fear the truck would tip over if one side was emptied while making a single lay... The truck carried 2000' of 2.5", then eventually 3" hose. The pickup pulled a 1000 GPM trailer pump. We still have (and use) the trailer, but since pretty much everybody has LDH now, we don't bother with that 3" supply line. There will be 3,000 feet of LDH on the three engines due on a structure fire.
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    We have a split hose bed lay of 5". Real big water.
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    Plenty of departments don't use LDH. My career department is split. City trucks carry LDH and rural trucks carry dual beds of 3".
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    We still carry and use three inch split beds for supply. We also use the three inch for exposure lines.

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    IIRC, Denver FD is still all 3" with hose clamps to control the water.
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    5" has been standard around me for as long as I've been around. A couple of the inner ring suburbs may still use 3"- but that's mostly because they run with the City, and THEY use 3". A good, comprehensive hydrant system, with decently close spacing makes it work well for them. As does the response patterns and timing. It looks to me like the City has been ordering ldh with their newest engines, but I don't know what size- just seen it in pictures.

    The only 3" we carry is the shorty hydrant rolls. 2 1/2" is used for leader lines and heavy handlines. For several years after I joined, we still carried some 3". It was leftover from when we switched to 5", and was used for leader lines, and a bomb line. As it got rotated out of service, we replaced it with 2 1/2. I remember hating to use the 3" bomb line- it was too big to easily grip with any strength.

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    Haven't had a laying duel since my 20's. I'm not sure who won, but I know I didn't lose one and most time she won too!

    Oh wait, did you mean laying DUALS? Yeah I don't no jack about that!
    Last edited by RFDACM02; 07-22-2013 at 11:47 PM. Reason: keyboard caused misspelled words

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    Plenty of departments don't use LDH. My career department is split. City trucks carry LDH and rural trucks carry dual beds of 3".
    That seems backwards. And not in a hillbilly backwards sense.

    Wouldn't you want the LDH in the rural setting with likely longer hose lays to defeat the friction loss issues and the 3" in the city with shorter lays where friction loss isn't as much of an issue?

    I guess maybe I'm just thinking out loud.
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    We used to lay dual 3" lines... in 2002 we went to 4" LDH.
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    Closest I ever got to laying duals was when I watched them do it on EMERGENCY!
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    so if two departments lay out duals simultaneously , is it dueling duals ? And we still carry 3" split lay on our second out engine, always takes the FDC .
    ?

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    I can't imagine any dept. with any funding at all not having at least some LDH, ESPECIALLY a metropolitan dept. like DC. Even my rural POC had 4" LDH 15 years ago, now we have all 5".

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    no duels here.. first line drops LDH, and they connect a wye for a secondary line(if needed) either 2 1/2" or 3"

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    I can't imagine any dept. with any funding at all not having at least some LDH, ESPECIALLY a metropolitan dept. like DC. Even my rural POC had 4" LDH 15 years ago, now we have all 5".
    Our budget is upper 30's to 40 million, we use nothing but 3 inch supply lines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    I can't imagine any dept. with any funding at all not having at least some LDH, ESPECIALLY a metropolitan dept. like DC. Even my rural POC had 4" LDH 15 years ago, now we have all 5".
    The budget for last year was 110 million; we have four engines that have LDH. Every other engine still operates the way we always have. We will lay two, three inch lines for supply with a reverse lay.
    Sometimes it's about more than the money.
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    I can't imagine any dept. with any funding at all not having at least some LDH, ESPECIALLY a metropolitan dept. like DC. Even my rural POC had 4" LDH 15 years ago, now we have all 5".
    FDNY uses 3.5" supply line except on the Satellite's.

    Philadelphia uses 3" except on their Pipeline Engines.

    I believe even LA City and County still use primarily 3".

    I'm just curious as to why that would be the case in the urban areas. Urban guys ....
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    FDNY uses 3.5" supply line except on the Satellite's.

    Philadelphia uses 3" except on their Pipeline Engines.

    I believe even LA City and County still use primarily 3".

    I'm just curious as to why that would be the case in the urban areas. Urban guys ....
    Urban areas have hydrants very close to eachother. 200-250 feet apart is not uncommon in my city. Engine takes hydrant and stays there. Hydrant Connection is often a 10 foot suction. Attack line is stretched to fire building. Engines are staffed with an officer and 4 FF's, with one being pump operator. Basic policy is to have two engine companies work together on getting first line in place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasper 45 View Post
    The budget for last year was 110 million; we have four engines that have LDH. Every other engine still operates the way we always have. We will lay two, three inch lines for supply with a reverse lay.
    Sometimes it's about more than the money.
    My fulltime dept has had LDH since the '70s, just seems like the stoneage to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    My fulltime dept has had LDH since the '70s, just seems like the stoneage to me.
    Unless you are going to use attack rated LDH, pressures above 180 psi are not to be used. Attack rated LDH is more expensive than supply rated LDH. For normal city blocks 2 1/2 or 3 inch pumped from a rig on a hydrant can usually supply all the water needed. Generally FDs that still lay duals are either doing reverse lay fire attacks with a single company with the engine at the hydrant, OR the first in is initiating attack and the second reverse lays to the hydrant to supply the attack engine.
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