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Thread: Most Important FireFighting Question You want Answered: Please Suggest

  1. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by captnjak View Post
    Maybe it's because they have titles like "Community Risk Issues and Prevention Interventions".

    Do we really expect people to disrupt their lives and schedules, then get on a plane and fly halfway across the country for that? Doesn't matter who's paying.

    With funds as limited as they are I'm not sure NFA SHOULD be paying for classes like this.
    That class is a regional delivery, not an on-campus class.

    As far as the NFA, it is the role of the NFA to deliver classes such as this.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    That class is a regional delivery, not an on-campus class.

    As far as the NFA, it is the role of the NFA to deliver classes such as this.
    Classes such as what exactly? I'd wager the majority of the target audience has no idea what this class is about. I know I don't. It reeks of vague, bureaucratic, theoretical mumbo jumbo.

    What do most of the departments/students need most of the time as far as training? That's what NFA should be geared toward.

    JMHO. Apologies for the fact that it will very likely insult you to some degree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by captnjak View Post
    Classes such as what exactly? I'd wager the majority of the target audience has no idea what this class is about. I know I don't. It reeks of vague, bureaucratic, theoretical mumbo jumbo.

    What do most of the departments/students need most of the time as far as training? That's what NFA should be geared toward.

    JMHO. Apologies for the fact that it will very likely insult you to some degree.
    żżżż

    They have many many classes if different areas


    I am sure they will learn something from the class, plus the class description has a target audience

    So the target audience should be the one setting in the class

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    THIS THREAD IS OFF TOPIC AGAIN GOD DAMMIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    lol
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    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

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    I am totally lost. I almost went back to the ten hours of BEE DO to try and figure out what the topic was.
    The fire service is about service to our fellow man.
    There is a trust that must not be broken and we are the keepers of that trust.
    Captain Dave LeBlanc

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    I don't know if you could even pay me to watch all ten hours of bee-do.... I don't know if any amount of money is worth my sanity.

    EDIT: What I have LEFT of my sanity.
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

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    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    I Made it to 1:06 before my twitch came back. Thanks for that.

    8 seconds for me!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    I couldn't do it either. I made it to 9:59:59 before I had to shut it off.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

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    Quote Originally Posted by captnjak View Post
    Classes such as what exactly? I'd wager the majority of the target audience has no idea what this class is about. I know I don't. It reeks of vague, bureaucratic, theoretical mumbo jumbo.

    What do most of the departments/students need most of the time as far as training? That's what NFA should be geared toward.

    JMHO. Apologies for the fact that it will very likely insult you to some degree.
    I have to agree with this comment to some degree. I see classes listed and some offered in this area and cant even figure out what they are about.
    I see people get excited about some of the classes offered and say to myself,
    What for? We don't even know how to fight fire yet.
    The fire service is about service to our fellow man.
    There is a trust that must not be broken and we are the keepers of that trust.
    Captain Dave LeBlanc

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    Just go to Youtube. It's frighteningly easy to find video after video of training exercises or jobs gone bad. Guys with their gear on fire. Guys in places that are seconds from complete flashover. Ten or more guys standing around on a roof above a fire. Random taking of windows and doors all over the place. I could go on forever. People acting as chiefs or instructors who are clueless. And the National FIRE Academy puts on classes like the one mentioned above. Let's learn to crawl before we try to walk and learn to walk before we try to run. I'm sure there is a legitimate audience for that class but we shouldn't wonder why people aren't breaking down the doors to get in.
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  11. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by captnjak View Post
    Just go to Youtube. It's frighteningly easy to find video after video of training exercises or jobs gone bad. Guys with their gear on fire. Guys in places that are seconds from complete flashover. Ten or more guys standing around on a roof above a fire. Random taking of windows and doors all over the place. I could go on forever. People acting as chiefs or instructors who are clueless. And the National FIRE Academy puts on classes like the one mentioned above. Let's learn to crawl before we try to walk and learn to walk before we try to run. I'm sure there is a legitimate audience for that class but we shouldn't wonder why people aren't breaking down the doors to get in.
    With all due respect, the NFA is not really in the business of delivering hands-on operational training. That, IMO, is the responsibility of the departments themselves and the state-level training agencies. conferences such as FDIC and regional programs such as those provide a mix of hands-on and command and admin/management classes.

    The NFA's role is to deliver classroom command, management and administrative training to folks who are performing those tasks. It's function is not to deliver hands-on operational training, but to train those who are delivering that training to manage and administer training programs, as well as train those who are performing public education, haz-mat and EMS programs on the management skills required.

    As far as the class descriptions, they are very specific and do a rather good job of identifying the purposes of the classes, and the target audience for each class.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    A few questions I have and also a couple from a blog I read a couple of years ago.

    1. When did having pride in your job and passion for the fire service become something looked down on by some departments? That this is just a job, just a paycheck nothing more.

    2. When did it become acceptable to not learn your job and function on the fireground? Is it because we don't do it often and can hide it?

    3. When did fire departments start caring about appearance rather than function?


    4. When did it become okay to write off known or unknown victims in a fire just because of the appearance/neighborhood of the house? Are those inside poor/homeless not deserving of life?

    5. Lastly I am sure I some $hit for this one, But when did it become okay for fire departments to use programs like ‘Everyone Goes Home’ as justification for fire departments not to do their jobs. They use these programs to justify their and some of their employees unwillingness to accept the risks associated with firefighting.
    Last edited by Snarff; 09-05-2013 at 12:53 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snarff View Post
    A few questions I have and also a couple from a blog I read a couple of years ago.

    1. When did having pride in your job and passion for the fire service become something looked down on by some departments? That this is just a job, just a paycheck nothing more.

    Apathy is a big issue in society in general and it has infected some fire departments too. Perhaps it is an internal problem for specific firefighters, but I think just an often it can be an institutional problem brought on by management style. I have seen FD administrations destroy morale, passion, and atttitude with their so called leadership. If you want to inspire firefighters to have pride and passion don't beat them down at every turn. Use and encourage the skills and knowledge your firefighters have, if you form committees actually listen to them and use their input, if you discipline, discipline fairly and equally, don't be abusive or shout down those who disagree or ask questions, and most of all give credit where credit is due.

    I absolutely loved being a career firefighter, in both of the FDs I worked for. I was on committees for apparatus and station safety, I was involved with training, both on my crew and assisting with recruit training when asked. I took it upon myself to take care of my rig, kept it clean and the tools clean and maintained. heck I even started doing all the rig's tools. I took care of the tools not because anyone asked me, but because of internal motivation. I read all the periodicals, I was on the internet on forums, reading blogs, watching fire related Youtube videos, and always talking to other firefighters about how to better do the job. Not everyone was as motivated as me, and some made me look like a slacker. My battle was more with dealing with the admin, being on committees that were essentially expected to be yes men, rarely being listened to, being overtly and covertly threatened with discipline, having been told less than truthful answers to questions, and unfair, heavy handed discipline. This is what eventually began to erode my attitude.


    2. When did it become acceptable to not learn your job and function on the fireground? Is it because we don't do it often and can hide it?

    Poor leadership that sets a poor example of the importance for training. The fact that engine and company officers don't train their crews like they should, outside of department wide training, fosters the attitude that training isn't important.

    3. When did fire departments start caring about appearance rather than function?

    Since the first fire departments appeared. Look at the old hand tub engines, the old leather helmets, the speaking trumpets, the banners, all of it. It was about looking good. Of course pride and performance went along with looking good. Frankly, today it is easier to have bling on a rig and spiffy uniforms than to train and be as good as you look.

    4. When did it become okay to write off known or unknown victims in a fire just because of the appearance/neighborhood of the house? Are those inside poor/homeless not deserving of life?

    When the Safety Sallies put forth the idea that going home after the fire, even if every victim in the fire died, was more important than doing the job. That doesn't mean being suicidal about entering, but it does mean entering when it is viable.

    5. Lastly I am sure I some $hit for this one, But when did it become okay for fire departments to use programs like ‘Everyone Goes Home’ as justification for fire departments not to do their jobs. They use these programs to justify their and some of their employees unwillingness to accept the risks associated with firefighting.

    Ask some posters on this forum this question. Frankly, if any FD I am on starts pushing this BS, I will be gone. I hate the fact that we have fire department officers that believe we can write off people as easy as wiping our azz. The fire department is called to save lives and property, when we can, not stand outside and say "Well, there's a fire in there and we might get hurt" while viable victims die because we won't do our job. My bet is I will take some schite for my attitude but frankly I don't give a damn.
    Important, viable questions that not enough people seems to care enough about to ponder.
    Last edited by FyredUp; 09-06-2013 at 12:20 PM.
    Chenzo and conrad427 like this.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

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