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Thread: Most Important FireFighting Question You want Answered: Please Suggest

  1. #51
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    So it comes down to adequate vs inadequate response? What then, is adequate? Where do we draw the line? Is it about how many people and how much equipment show up? Or is it how quickly the NEEDED resources and qualified personnel are on the scene? Time cannot be ruled out of the equation. If the patient's heart stops beating, the clock is ticking. If a home or apartment is involved in fire, the clock is ticking. If an MVA victim suffers trauma, the clock is ticking. Minutes count. So should there be no volunteer departments whatsoever? Because they can't respond the way full time staffed departments can.

    Or is it about money? (Isn't it always?) How can we expect people to pay for salaries when they can't be bothered to pay for basic equipment and PPE?

    The most important firefighting question (to get back on topic) must be: Why has a huge segment of the American public accepted subpar response times as a normal part of the fire fighting service?

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by captnjak View Post
    So it comes down to adequate vs inadequate response? What then, is adequate? Where do we draw the line? Is it about how many people and how much equipment show up? Or is it how quickly the NEEDED resources and qualified personnel are on the scene? Time cannot be ruled out of the equation. If the patient's heart stops beating, the clock is ticking. If a home or apartment is involved in fire, the clock is ticking. If an MVA victim suffers trauma, the clock is ticking. Minutes count. So should there be no volunteer departments whatsoever? Because they can't respond the way full time staffed departments can.

    Or is it about money? (Isn't it always?) How can we expect people to pay for salaries when they can't be bothered to pay for basic equipment and PPE?

    The most important firefighting question (to get back on topic) must be: Why has a huge segment of the American public accepted subpar response times as a normal part of the fire fighting service?
    As far as career mebers at every department, simply not possible.

    Let's use my current VFD.

    Current income is about 158K, and that's at 15 mils which is the highest fire district rate in the parish.

    If we hired just one paid member per shift at the current market salary and benefit package in this area, we would be looking at 55-60K per man, or 165K- 180K. That would require doubling our current milage just for a single firefighter per shift, excluding overtime or cover pay for vacation and sick time.

    Simply not feasible.

    As far as your question, it's primarily cost, and infrequency of use.

    Most fire departments cover small communities and rural areas where incidents, especially working fires, are infrequent. They see the fire department operate infrequently.

    As compared to law enforcement, which is far more active and visible. Traffic stops. Street patrols. All enhance the visibility of the police and law enforcement.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    It has nothing to do with getting paid.
    Again I did not get across what I meant. What I was trying to say is that in a perfect world, everyone would have the coverage of a department that is fully staffed, fully equipped, and fully funded. This would mean necessary equipment, manpower, and response every time there is an emergency and virtually instantaneous response.

    My point is if the community accepts that I, as a volunteer firefighter, am willing to risk life and limb for the community then they should supply me with at least the minimum of appropriate equipment to do that job. If we choose to fund raise it should be to buy things that go beyond that, perhaps a TIC, or Jaws, or water rescue equipment. But if you expect me to crawl in and save Gramma, give me good turnout gear and SCBA to do it with.
    I look at it like this. . . I need to accept the reality of my situation (fully funded perfectly equipped fire protection is not feasible), rather than the community accepting my expectations. Where I see your frustration is that your expectations could be met by the financial reality of your area, and people choose not to sacrifice their desires to ensure their basic need for fire protection. In that circumstance, I fully agree with your frustration.

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    Quote Originally Posted by captnjak View Post
    So it comes down to adequate vs inadequate response? What then, is adequate? Where do we draw the line? Is it about how many people and how much equipment show up? Or is it how quickly the NEEDED resources and qualified personnel are on the scene? Time cannot be ruled out of the equation. If the patient's heart stops beating, the clock is ticking. If a home or apartment is involved in fire, the clock is ticking. If an MVA victim suffers trauma, the clock is ticking. Minutes count. So should there be no volunteer departments whatsoever? Because they can't respond the way full time staffed departments can.

    Or is it about money? (Isn't it always?) How can we expect people to pay for salaries when they can't be bothered to pay for basic equipment and PPE?

    The most important firefighting question (to get back on topic) must be: Why has a huge segment of the American public accepted subpar response times as a normal part of the fire fighting service?
    It is 100% about money. Too many people have the mindset that they have never needed the fire department or an ambulance so why pay more to get better service. BUT when they do need them they cry the blues because maybe they live in that area where there are really only 5 active members on a 30 member roster and "Oh I'm sorry but they are all out of town today." Or it takes 15 minutes to get the ambulance out the door to the house right across the street.

    Now Captnjak,

    There are many VERY good volunteer FDs that never miss a beat, get out the door, day or night, under 5 minutes. Some even staff the station with at least one crew to get the first rig out the door faster. Not all volly FDs are the pathetic train wrecks that we read about.

    My #1 POC FD can, about 75% of the time get a rig out the door under 5 minutes. Sometimes it is longer. That is the nature of the volly beast. My #2 POC FD can, about 90% of the time get a rig out the door in 3 or 4 minutes. Again sometimes longer. Neither will be hiring anyone full time anytime soon simply because of tax base. So again, while number of runs may be a factor, MONEY is always the determining factor.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuntPA View Post
    I look at it like this. . . I need to accept the reality of my situation (fully funded perfectly equipped fire protection is not feasible), rather than the community accepting my expectations. Where I see your frustration is that your expectations could be met by the financial reality of your area, and people choose not to sacrifice their desires to ensure their basic need for fire protection. In that circumstance, I fully agree with your frustration.
    I said:

    But if you expect me to crawl in and save Gramma, give me good turnout gear and SCBA to do it with.
    I didn't say fully funded, perfectly equipped. I said at least give me the proper protective clothing to do what you believe I SHOULD do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    As far as career mebers at every department, simply not possible.

    Let's use my current VFD.

    Current income is about 158K, and that's at 15 mils which is the highest fire district rate in the parish.

    If we hired just one paid member per shift at the current market salary and benefit package in this area, we would be looking at 55-60K per man, or 165K- 180K. That would require doubling our current milage just for a single firefighter per shift, excluding overtime or cover pay for vacation and sick time.

    Simply not feasible.

    As far as your question, it's primarily cost, and infrequency of use.

    Most fire departments cover small communities and rural areas where incidents, especially working fires, are infrequent. They see the fire department operate infrequently.

    As compared to law enforcement, which is far more active and visible. Traffic stops. Street patrols. All enhance the visibility of the police and law enforcement.
    Your VFD would be much better off giving your equipment and stations and the $158K a year to the AMA FD on the stipulation that they staff at least one engine some where in your VFDs area 24/7.
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    I've just been playing a little devil's advocate with this stuff. But there is no real comparison to be made. Rigs in my department are out the door in about 15 seconds.
    I know that the vast majority of departments are doing a great job at providing fire/emergency service. My family and home are protected by volunteers. Financial realities dictate that there will not be permanently staffed fire companies across the country.
    I just think it's odd the way the public views the fire service in general. We're a nuisance until they need us.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Your VFD would be much better off giving your equipment and stations and the $158K a year to the AMA FD on the stipulation that they staff at least one engine some where in your VFDs area 24/7.
    And with that 158K they could not put one member per shift at one station without raising the fire tax rate.

    They are very well paid and compensated with a total salary and benefit package at around 65K per member.

    65K x 3 = 195K

    So our current income would not even cover 1 firefighter per shift.

    If they wanted to staff a 3-firefighter crew that would be 585K, excluding overtime for vacation, sick time, etc, or at least 3.5 times the current income.

    That would leave $0 for fuel, insurance, operational expenses, vehicle maintenance and vehicle replacement.

    And as I explained, they are a municipality. They are not a fire district. Under state law, a municipality covering an area outside of it's municipal boundaries is rated automatically at a 9. We are currently a 4.

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    Quote Originally Posted by captnjak View Post
    I just think it's odd the way the public views the fire service in general. We're a nuisance until they need us.
    The line I quoted from your post gets my nomination for the post of the millenium. Because no line has ever been posted here that is more pathetically true.
    Last edited by FyredUp; 07-31-2013 at 04:06 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And with that 158K they could not put one member per shift at one station without raising the fire tax rate.

    They are very well paid and compensated with a total salary and benefit package at around 65K per member.

    65K x 3 = 195K

    So our current income would not even cover 1 firefighter per shift.

    If they wanted to staff a 3-firefighter crew that would be 585K, excluding overtime for vacation, sick time, etc, or at least 3.5 times the current income.

    That would leave $0 for fuel, insurance, operational expenses, vehicle maintenance and vehicle replacement.

    And as I explained, they are a municipality. They are not a fire district. Under state law, a municipality covering an area outside of it's municipal boundaries is rated automatically at a 9. We are currently a 4.

    It's amazing how dense you can be at times.
    I'm dense? Really? Which one of us lives a lie every single day that their vfd is in existence? Not me. I don't have stations that have absolutely NO STAFFING and then brag that the FD gets rating credit because the trucks get pulled once a year to meet some ridiculous rating rule in LA. Your numbers may say 4 the reality is those that live in those areas barely have a 9. nonest to God Bobby of all the ridiculous dumb azz things you have defended here this has got to be the most pathetic. Even when you get trucks out you get, by your accounts here, 3 -7 guys, mostly exterior only, and often not a single officer responds.

    By the way Bobby, I never said to ADD any staffing t what the city runs...So where does the extra cost come in?

    I am telling you straight up that your AMA department is sizing your territory up for a take over. Explain why else they would offer a PAID crew from their city to come into your territory to fight your fires. Heck they could place a company on the border to cover the miniscule number of calls you have and not lose anything at all.
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    Right now the city runs 4 members per shift at 3 stations plus a BC and then call members responding in on every tone.

    They operate 2 stations w/ 1 full-time member each and Central Station with 2 members and the BC. So they would have to add staff to cover our stations, and the money simply isn't there to pay for any career staffing in our district.

    As I have stated the city has no interest .. none in annexing us. In fact, we just annexed a small chunk of the district that lies between us and the city. If they had any interest in coming our way the city would have annexed that chunk, as they had first shot at it, not us.

    The amount of money that they would pick up in the contract would allow them to hire nobody, and would barley cover expenses, as I have stated, I doubt the citizens would go for it as the rating would drop from an 4 to a 9 if it was covered under contract.

    Trust me .. They have no interest in taking over a 100-square mile district that generates no significant revenue. None. And the city has zero interest as well as they would have to expand some very expensive city services assuming that they could convince the residents to pay 4x the taxes they are paying now.

    As far as the other 2 stations they DO have staffing ..... Any member can drive to those stations when there is a call in that area and pick up that apparatus. In fact, members that happen to be in a position to drive up to those stations are expected to.

    We have a bordering primarily career combination department that plays the same "game". They have 9 stations and staff two. Periodically a volunteer will pick up a piece at one of the 7 other stations but that is rare. The combo department to our south also has multiple stations but only staffs one. They have a few more volunteers but still there are stations in areas where no volunteers live and those trucks rarely get on the air, even for runs in that area.

    The fact is those citizens in that area know that it's a VFD as we have sent 2 recruiting mailers in the last year to every home in the district. Nobody in those areas have stepped up to the plate to volunteer. We have an AMA agreement with the VFD bordering that area to the north, but they have limited members and very limited interior manpower, so we have made arrangements to attempt to augment our manpower in that area..
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 07-31-2013 at 06:25 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by captnjak View Post
    I've just been playing a little devil's advocate with this stuff. But there is no real comparison to be made. Rigs in my department are out the door in about 15 seconds.
    I know that the vast majority of departments are doing a great job at providing fire/emergency service. My family and home are protected by volunteers. Financial realities dictate that there will not be permanently staffed fire companies across the country.
    I just think it's odd the way the public views the fire service in general. We're a nuisance until they need us.
    I disagree.

    I have been involved in some very well supported departments.

    My current combo department has sufficient funding and has it's milage reapproved every 10 years with no issues. I don't know of a district in this parish that has had an issue with have milages approved.

    My VFD has the highest milage in the parish plus they supported a 10 mil-10 year bond 6 years ago for apparatus and a station 6 years ago. And again, I know of no districts that have problems with having funding taxes approved.

    I know that there are many VFDs that have inadequate resources. That being said, the reality is thqat in most of these places the community resources simply don't exist to supply the members with up to date PPE, SCBA, communications and apparatus.

    A community of 600, 6,000 or even 10,000, unless there is a significant will likely never be able to generate enough tax revenue to purchase the equipment as frequently as needed to keep that equipment up to date. The costs for that gear are simply too high.

    As far as staffing, the fact is that the vast majority of the fire departments in this country simply do not need career members. There simply isn't the run volume nor the ancillary required responsibilities to justify career staffing beyond possibly one or two administrative and/or maintenance personnel. And even if they did, in most of those places the revenue simply never will exist to hire those required members. Again, the funding will never exist in that community of 600, 6,000 or even 10,000 to hire an engine crew. That's nothing but basic math.

    As far as taxation, there are places where the taxes are quiet minimal and barely support a skeleton sheriff's/police agency, and the community has no history of funding fire with tax revenue. Is that right? Maybe. maybe not. But the bottom line is that it's unlikely that in many of these places the community will support taxation for fire operations.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 07-31-2013 at 06:22 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Right now the city runs 4 members per shift at 3 stations plus a BC and then call members responding in on every tone.

    They operate 2 stations w/ 1 full-time member each and Central Station with 2 members and the BC. So they would have to add staff to cover our stations, and the money simply isn't there to pay for any career staffing in our district.

    So every time they respond into your vfd's area they are doing callbacks and paying overtime? BRILLIANT plan...So the city is not only giving you their on duty crew they are aying overtime to cover while they are fighting YOUR fire. WOW! I don't see the taxpayers of the city being bothered by paying for essentially your fire protection.

    As I have stated the city has no interest .. none in annexing us. In fact, we just annexed a small chunk of the district that lies between us and the city. If they had any interest in coming our way the city would have annexed that chunk, as they had first shot at it, not us.

    I NEVER said they would annex the land mass. You really need to stop lying about what I have said.

    The amount of money that they would pick up in the contract would allow them to hire nobody, and would barley cover expenses, as I have stated, I doubt the citizens would go for it as the rating would drop from an 4 to a 9 if it was covered under contract.

    I'll bet it would cover the overtime costs they have every time they fight your fires for you.

    Trust me .. They have no interest in taking over a 100-square mile district that generates no significant revenue. None. And the city has zero interest as well as they would have to expand some very expensive city services assuming that they could convince the residents to pay 4x the taxes they are paying now.

    You again are putting words in my mouth. I NEVER said they would annex the land mass or supply anything other than contracted fire service.

    As far as the other 2 stations they DO have staffing ..... Any member can drive to those stations when there is a call in that area and pick up that apparatus. In fact, members that happen to be in a position to drive up to those stations are expected to.

    So ONCE AGAIN, you are changing your story. YOU said there were no volunteers anywhere near those 2 stations and if the rigs from there were needed people were sent from elsewhere to get them. See Bobby this is what happens when you make schitt up, you have to remember it or you just keep contradicting yourself.

    We have a bordering primarily career combination department that plays the same "game". They have 9 stations and staff two. Periodically a volunteer will pick up a piece at one of the 7 other stations but that is rare. The combo department to our south also has multiple stations but only staffs one. They have a few more volunteers but still there are stations in areas where no volunteers live and those trucks rarely get on the air, even for runs in that area.

    So the pathetic ratings system in LA allows you to play games with people's lives and property by having stations that no volunteers live by or normally respond to as long as once a year a truck responds out of there. It would seem that YOU would lobby to change absolute BS like that, unless the truth is you are comfrtable playing loose and fast with people's lives.

    The fact is those citizens in that area know that it's a VFD as we have sent 2 recruiting mailers in the last year to every home in the district. Nobody in those areas have stepped up to the plate to volunteer. We have an AMA agreement with the VFD bordering that area to the north, but they have limited members and very limited interior manpower, so we have made arrangements to attempt to augment our manpower in that area..

    Again, maybe if your standards for membership were more than walking upright you might get some new members. But apparently anyone can join and even if they never show up for training or calls they count as a member. Must be a ratings thing. Here warm bodies don't mean crap if they don't attend training.
    Just more BS and excuses. Now could you go away so we could talk about fundraising again instead of your pathetic nonsense.
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  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuntPA View Post
    Maybe in your corner of the world raising taxes to the point where we are funded fully would work, but not here. And, I might add, if the population can afford the added tax, then I would not have an issue with it. That is not the case here. Just because it cannot be bourn by the population does not mean that they deserve fire protection any less than the more affluent areas.

    Why do you feel those that cannot afford higher taxes should not be afforded this protection? Shouldn't it be provided by a charitable organization that's purpose is to support those people and is willing to do the work necessary to carry out this function? If the taxes that can be afforded are then given to that organization not help them, all the better. Those organizations do exist and they are the volunteer departments (at least that is what we call them around here).
    I think you're missing the point. The suggestion is not necessarily to raise taxes to fund fire protection, but to take the public safety aspect of fire protection as seriously as every other function of City government and properly fund it before tax dollars are spent on other nonessential services or projects.
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    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    My current combo department has sufficient funding and has it's milage reapproved every 10 years with no issues. I don't know of a district in this parish that has had an issue with have milages approved.

    My VFD has the highest milage in the parish plus they supported a 10 mil-10 year bond 6 years ago for apparatus and a station 6 years ago. And again, I know of no districts that have problems with having funding taxes approved.
    So how and why to you come up with the myriad of excuses for why your fire department sucks?
    RK
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    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

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    lafire doesnt need tax funding or fundraising for proper ppe or scbas.. they dont do interior attack.. give em heavy cotton/nomex blend pants and jackets and theyll be fine

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    Quote Originally Posted by ladder9volley View Post
    lafire doesnt need tax funding or fundraising for proper ppe or scbas.. they dont do interior attack.. give em heavy cotton/nomex blend pants and jackets and theyll be fine
    It would be hard to look the part with out those items.
    Not worried about acting the part, just looking the part.


    Sorry guys, I know I should not bring stuff like that up, but being about three quarters screwball, I could not help myself.
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    Question: If you are not intending to enter a building, be on a RIT crew, or otherwise get near the heat and smoke, why are you wearing an scba? That is just one less bottle available for me and my crew.
    Question: If you will not help in any capacity at a MVA, why would you insist on being on the first out engine?
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    Question: Other than training, truck checks and maintenance, responses, and the budget, what else should be discussed at a fire dept. meeting? Is the color of my flipping brush pants really the biggest problem facing the dept.?

    Okay, sorry, I'm done now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    ...but to take the public safety aspect of fire protection as seriously as every other function of City government and properly fund it before tax dollars are spent on other nonessential services or projects.
    Two problems there - one, we don't all live in cities. Some of us live in rural townships with populations under 1000 where the only other services provided by the township are a town clerk (licenses, permits, etc) and maybe a half dozen guys in the highway department. I know of one township with just two or three. Police is usually either the county sheriff or state police. Fire protection may already be one of the biggest line items in the budget and an increase might well severly impact those residents financially.

    Second, who's to decide what's essential and what's not? If you're a small department running a couple dozen calls a year, you may not be as important to the public as the community center building they use numerous times a year.
    Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tree68 View Post
    Two problems there - one, we don't all live in cities. Some of us live in rural townships with populations under 1000 where the only other services provided by the township are a town clerk (licenses, permits, etc) and maybe a half dozen guys in the highway department. I know of one township with just two or three. Police is usually either the county sheriff or state police. Fire protection may already be one of the biggest line items in the budget and an increase might well severly impact those residents financially.

    Oh no! You are a small rural community of under 1000. Um guess what? My village is 717, with 200 plus of those residents in the nursing home. I guarantee you we are NOT the largest line item in the budget and never have been. Our budget can cover the bare essentials if we budget carefully. We fund raise for things like trucks and specialized equipment. AND I STILL DON'T LIKE IT!!
    Second, who's to decide what's essential and what's not? If you're a small department running a couple dozen calls a year, you may not be as important to the public as the community center building they use numerous times a year.

    Okay if you are saying that the FD isn't considered essential to the citizens then why remain in operation? Sorry, and you can call me selfish, a cold hearted bastard, or anything else you want, but if the community as a whole doesn't view the FD as an essential service then why in the F*** should I risk my life for them?

    Dude, I have to tell you you have a severely warped view of this topic. I am not saying these places need to buy $500K engines or $1000K ladder trucks, or any such nonsense, but they for damn sure should be expected to supply proper PPE and SCBA if they expect me to risk my life. Seriously, YOU are part of the problem making excuses for you having to fundraise to supply emergency services to the community.

    WOW! Your ideas may help perpetuate your FD into getting more of nothing for years to come.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  22. #72
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    My wife would like to know why when I get a free moment I go to work for the state digging fire line or go to the fire house to put on an SCBA and work out. She wonders why our bathroom sink still does not work.
    I might be a crappy firefighter, but it is looking like i'm a crappier husband.
    The fire service is about service to our fellow man.
    There is a trust that must not be broken and we are the keepers of that trust.
    Captain Dave LeBlanc

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    My wife would like to know why when I get a free moment I go to work for the state digging fire line or go to the fire house to put on an SCBA and work out. She wonders why our bathroom sink still does not work.
    I might be a crappy firefighter, but it is looking like i'm a crappier husband.
    Brother, let me say something to you heart to heart. If your marriage is important to you then don't let being a volunteer firefighter destroy it. You have to balance them and lean more towards your family.

    If I were you, first thing tomorrow I would go get whatever I needed to to fix that bathroom sink and fix the darn thing.
    rm1524 likes this.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Brother, let me say something to you heart to heart. If your marriage is important to you then don't let being a volunteer firefighter destroy it. You have to balance them and lean more towards your family.

    If I were you, first thing tomorrow I would go get whatever I needed to to fix that bathroom sink and fix the darn thing.
    Work.
    Family.
    Fire Department.

    In that order.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  25. #75
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    So every time they respond into your vfd's area they are doing callbacks and paying overtime?

    No ... They are paying their call members a flat rate per run.

    BRILLIANT plan...So the city is not only giving you their on duty crew they are aying overtime to cover while they are fighting YOUR fire. WOW! I don't see the taxpayers of the city being bothered by paying for essentially your fire protection.

    Given that we will give them more mutual aid in a typical year than they give us, primarily for water supply, it shouldn't bother them.

    I NEVER said they would annex the land mass. You really need to stop lying about what I have said.

    And as I have stated the voters in our district likely would have no interest in going from a 4 to a 9 as that is the rating they would automatically receive if covered by a municipal department under contract.


    I'll bet it would cover the overtime costs they have every time they fight your fires for you.

    They would also have to go out and cur trees in our area after the storm which is something they don't do, as well as handle the other runs. Ad in the other calls and I doubt they would walk away with very much money. Certainly not enough to cover insurance, fuel, vehicle maintenance and apparatus replacement.


    You again are putting words in my mouth. I NEVER said they would annex the land mass or supply anything other than contracted fire service.

    See above.


    So ONCE AGAIN, you are changing your story. YOU said there were no volunteers anywhere near those 2 stations and if the rigs from there were needed people were sent from elsewhere to get them. See Bobby this is what happens when you make schitt up, you have to remember it or you just keep contradicting yourself.

    Currently we do not have any volunteers living in those areas. The demographic of the area tends to be a much older population.

    However, any of our volunteers can respond to those stations, and do, from the southern part of the district when we get a call in that area to get those apparatus up.

    It's very typical for me to respond to the scene, or one of 3 stations from my home depending on the location of the call, type of call/apparatus needed and where other members are responding from.



    So the pathetic ratings system in LA allows you to play games with people's lives and property by having stations that no volunteers live by or normally respond to as long as once a year a truck responds out of there. It would seem that YOU would lobby to change absolute BS like that, unless the truth is you are comfrtable playing loose and fast with people's lives.

    Why is it BS? Members can always respond via POV from other parts of the district to that station or may happen to be closer to one of those stations if they are travelling thru the district.

    Again, maybe if your standards for membership were more than walking upright you might get some new members. But apparently anyone can join and even if they never show up for training or calls they count as a member. Must be a ratings thing. Here warm bodies don't mean crap if they don't attend training.

    We have already discussed that.

    I would love to have an higher training attendance standard but I can live with 50%, and most of our active members make that.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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