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Thread: Most Important FireFighting Question You want Answered: Please Suggest

  1. #81
    Forum Member ToDaRoof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Work.
    Family.
    Fire Department.

    In that order.
    Yet you hold your vollie station in higher regard than your job. Hypocrite much?


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    Quote Originally Posted by ToDaRoof View Post
    Yet you hold your vollie station in higher regard than your job. Hypocrite much?
    Yes, I hold the members at my volunteer station (as well as most of the volunteers I have worked with at my previous VFDs) in higher regard than the career members at my combo station.

    How is that hypocritical?

    And what does that have to do with the priorities of family, work and the volunteer fire department?
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 08-01-2013 at 05:08 PM.
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  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Yes, I hold the members at my volunteer station (as well as most of the volunteers I have worked with at my previous VFDs) in higher regard than the career members at my combo station.

    How is that hypocritical?

    And what does that have to do with the priorities of family, work and the volunteer fire department?
    It has to do with the fact that every self-respecting career firefighter should be appreciative of what pays his bills and put that position ahead of any vollie house he takes part in. (You don't) A paid position is something that a majority of volunteers would die to have, yet you're the most ungrateful person I've ever seen to hold the spot. (You put your vollies ahead of your job) If you're as ungrateful for your job as you profess to be on this board, you're pathetic. I really hope you're not an active member the IAFF, for you've shown numerous times that you're against everything we stand for.

    Not intended as a slam to the vollies here... But you're preaching one thing and practicing something else. And for those on the fence about two-hatters (remember, I am one), you're not helping the cause for the issue. My wife, son, and family come first. They inspire me to be the best I can be at my CAREER, and support my VOLUNTEER efforts when appropriate. Your priorities are fcked.
    Last edited by ToDaRoof; 08-02-2013 at 01:00 AM.

  4. #84
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    Originally Posted by FyredUp
    Okay if you are saying that the FD isn't considered essential to the citizens then why remain in operation? Sorry, and you can call me selfish, a cold hearted bastard, or anything else you want, but if the community as a whole doesn't view the FD as an essential service then why in the F*** should I risk my life for them?

    Maybe this is the disconnect. I am in the department because I want to give back to my community and help where I can. I am willing to go into a burning building to help them whether they can afford to give to the department or not.

    I have given back to my home community for 32 years as a volunteer firefighter, I am coming on 2 years as a volunteer on my second FD, and I served 5 years as a volly on another FD when I lived in that community. So please spare me the holier than thou "you joined to serve the community" implying because I expect the community to at least supply me with proper PPE means I am less caring than you.

    I also realize that part of my department is the requirement that we raise enough money so that we can have compliant PPE and trucks that will start and function on scene. It is not that they feel that we are not an essential service, they just cannot afford any more.

    These are you words:

    Second, who's to decide what's essential and what's not? If you're a small department running a couple dozen calls a year, you may not be as important to the public as the community center building they use numerous times a year.
    YOU SAID THE COMMUNITY DECIDES WHAT'S ESSENTIAL and since you don't run many calls they may not view you as important as the community center. So which is it? they don't view you as essential, or they won't pony up? Obviously they pay for the community center, so that must be essential while the FD is not.

    The township does not provide any services that I would consider non-essential, or even less essential than our fire protection. They have a very small budget to maintain many miles of dirt roads (not enough to pave or even tar and chip) so that they remain passible not only to the people that live here, but also to our fire trucks. The only other service they provide is a sewer to the village. That is a necessity as there is not enough land with good enough percolation for on site systems. So it was either the new system or raw sewage in people's yards. They make do with used equipment, low pay, and trying to find every grant they can think of just like us.


    Dude, if all your area can afford is dirt roads you have more problems than we can solve here on fire department forum. Funny thing is they still fund a community center.

    Dude, I have to tell you you have a severely warped view of this topic. I am not saying these places need to buy $500K engines or $1000K ladder trucks, or any such nonsense, but they for damn sure should be expected to supply proper PPE and SCBA if they expect me to risk my life. Seriously, YOU are part of the problem making excuses for you having to fundraise to supply emergency services to the community.

    WOW! Your ideas may help perpetuate your FD into getting more of nothing for years to come.
    Quote Originally Posted by HuntPA View Post
    The engine we run cost less than $150,000 when brand new in 1986, and was less than 1/3 that when we bought it used. The only department in the city with any sort of areal device is the city and that could only be justified through obtaining a grant for funding a used one.

    Our last used engine cost $36K, the engine before that was purchased with a grant. I never said nor implied you needed an aerial ladder.

    By the way, I am meeting with my state rep and senator to try and get the little state funding we do get increased through a change in the funding formula. Between the $18k in taxes and $5k in relief, we are able to pay for gas, sewer, electric, garbage, insurance, and some upkeep on apparatus. Everything else is through fundraising.

    Funny how people will pay for fund raising but you feel they don't have the same money to pay in taxes. The truth is fund raising income comes from a disproportionate amount of the population in most cases. Those same people that don't want to pay any additional taxes rarely, if ever, support fund raising efforts.

    If you are ever in northwest PA, please let me know. I would love to show you around the area so you could better understand, because it is very obvious that I am unable to do so through this conversation.

    If I am ever there I will let you know.

    Your idea of having the citizens fund (which would be through taxes) our department enough to cover utilities, truck maintenance (not even replacement), building maintenance, PPE, and basic tools (hose, nozzles, radios, and an axe or 2) would not and can not work here as the tax base here cannot support the increase in taxes. It is that simple. Not that it wouldn't be better, more desirable, or anything else, it just can not be done.

    How do they fund a community center if they are so destitute?
    We may just have to agree to disagree.
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  5. #85
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToDaRoof View Post
    It has to do with the fact that every self-respecting career firefighter should be appreciative of what pays his bills and put that position ahead of any vollie house he takes part in. (You don't) A paid position is something that a majority of volunteers would die to have, yet you're the most ungrateful person I've ever seen to hold the spot. (You put your vollies ahead of your job) If you're as ungrateful for your job as you profess to be on this board, you're pathetic. I really hope you're not an active member the IAFF, for you've shown numerous times that you're against everything we stand for.

    Not intended as a slam to the vollies here... But you're preaching one thing and practicing something else. And for those on the fence about two-hatters (remember, I am one), you're not helping the cause for the issue. My wife, son, and family come first. They inspire me to be the best I can be at my CAREER, and support my VOLUNTEER efforts when appropriate. Your priorities are fcked.
    His dislikes the idea of paid firefighters, hence being one causing him internal confusion. He is a self loather.
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  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToDaRoof View Post
    It has to do with the fact that every self-respecting career firefighter should be appreciative of what pays his bills and put that position ahead of any vollie house he takes part in. (You don't) A paid position is something that a majority of volunteers would die to have, yet you're the most ungrateful person I've ever seen to hold the spot. (You put your vollies ahead of your job) If you're as ungrateful for your job as you profess to be on this board, you're pathetic. I really hope you're not an active member the IAFF, for you've shown numerous times that you're against everything we stand for.
    Yet every time he bitches about the career side of his gig and we all suggest that he resign and pick his pubic hair out of his teeth as a volunteer instead, he suddenly goes silent and has nothing to say.............hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    WOW! Your ideas may help perpetuate your FD into getting more of nothing for years to come.
    Actually, we do pretty well. Sat in on a fire district budget planning meeting last night and pretty much everything we've been getting, and that for which we've asked for increases was well received.

    Our township has an assessed value of over $600M. Our tax rate is currently ~$.50 per thousand which will yield over $300K, about half of which goes directly into reserves. The other station in the district recently got a used tower and a new engine. We're in line for a new engine next year.

    So that's not us I'm talking about - but it is a lot of small departments (mine used to fit that bill until the fire district was formed).

    Now that the Not For Practical Application folks have decreed that our PPE is obsolete after 10 years, regardless of condition, that our hose similarly must be replaced based on age, not condition, and SCBA is probably going that way, that $10,000 annual budget disappears trying to put one firefighter in compliant gear (plus paying the heat and lights).

    Is the fire department topmost in the taxpayer's minds? Only if they have an emergency that requires our services. With, say 500 structures (we've got more than 1,000 residents, too, though not by much), plus state, county, and town roads (MVA's, wires, trees) we're running just over 100 calls a year. Take away the EMS frequent fliers, and we're down to 90 or so for the year. And a fair number of those are mutual aid calls. So the local citizens whose lives we touch directly are less than 1 in 10.

    On the other hand, if the town plows don't get out after a snowstorm, or the roads are in poor repair, that number approaches 100%. And the town tax rate is zero, as the result of sales tax sharing by the county. The fire tax is a separate line item.

    Am I making excuses? Heck, no! Just calling it as I see it, and have over my 35 years in the business.

    Do I like fundraising? Aside from seeing people I might not otherwise see at functions such as our chicken barbeques, I can't say as I do. We've cut down on our fundraising efforts - we're doing less than half what we did, and one of those (Holiday Breakfast with visit from Santa) is more a community service than a fundraiser.

    So we agree - fundraising to buy essential equipment sucks. But until we find a way to get better funding for those departments without the tax base to support that need, a lot of areas are stuck with it. At least they're trying to provide the service.
    Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Yet every time he bitches about the career side of his gig and we all suggest that he resign and pick his pubic hair out of his teeth as a volunteer instead, he suddenly goes silent and has nothing to say.............hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
    I can see the excuse now... "But but but pubes are vitally important and should be the only paid positions, everything else should just be volunteer!"
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  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToDaRoof View Post
    It has to do with the fact that every self-respecting career firefighter should be appreciative of what pays his bills and put that position ahead of any vollie house he takes part in. (You don't) A paid position is something that a majority of volunteers would die to have, yet you're the most ungrateful person I've ever seen to hold the spot. (You put your vollies ahead of your job) If you're as ungrateful for your job as you profess to be on this board, you're pathetic. I really hope you're not an active member the IAFF, for you've shown numerous times that you're against everything we stand for.

    I am very grateful for my position, and I not once have I not performed my duties in a professional manner. In a similar post I stated clearly that my volunteer commitments have never interfered with my job responsibilities on the career side. the couple of times that I was late for work on the career side because of a volunteer run were cleared by my Deputy Chief.

    I simply stated that I have more respect for my volunteer brothers, and that includes the volunteers on my combo department, who perform the job for free and generally at considerable cost to their families, as compared to career members who are paid to perform those same tasks generally during a scheduled period. When I die, I hope that I am remembered as a good volunteer member v. a good career member. Does that mean that I don't appreciate the pay, excellent benefits, training and opportunities that I have been afforded as a career member? No. But I do take more pride in what I have accomplished on the volunteer side as a volunteer than what I have accomplished on the career side as a career member.

    Yes, I take pride in my career position. But I take more pride in my department and volunteer commitment. As I said, I want to be remembered more for what I have done as a vollie than what I have done as a career member.

    And no, we are not unionized at my combo department


    Not intended as a slam to the vollies here... But you're preaching one thing and practicing something else. And for those on the fence about two-hatters (remember, I am one), you're not helping the cause for the issue. My wife, son, and family come first. They inspire me to be the best I can be at my CAREER, and support my VOLUNTEER efforts when appropriate. Your priorities are fcked.
    And how am I not helping "the cause", whatever that is.

    I show up every day at my career gig as scheduled, and perform the duties as assigned. And in fact, run significant calls when not on-duty and teach classes off the clock.

    And I also fulfill my assigned duties at the VFD when available.

    As an example, my combo gig worked a significant barn fire which killed 19 horses last night starting at 6PM. I left work at 5 PM to go to my VFD training night, where I was scheduled to teach at 6:30. I taught the class at my VFD as scheduled until 8:30, and then left to assist my combo department with the barn fire, which I did until almost 1 AM.

    I then got up at 6 AM and meet the fire investigators from the state at 7 and assisted them with the investigation until almost 2PM today. I then returned to my office and started my in-house cause & origin report.

    So in this example, exactly where did I not fulfill my obligation to my career gig?

    My job always comes first and I perform my job. That being said, again, I take far more pride in being a volunteer member than a career member, and always will. If you consider that Fcked, have at it.

    By the way, I list my F.O.O.L.S affiliation as my VFD, not my career FD. I take that much pride in what I do as a volunteer. Do you consider that fcked?
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 08-02-2013 at 04:34 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToDaRoof View Post
    I can see the excuse now... "But but but pubes are vitally important and should be the only paid positions, everything else should just be volunteer!"
    The department determined that they wanted more in the way of public education, as well as somebody to take both the administrative and much of the delivery burden of training and preplanning off the Deputy Chief.

    That was a department-level decision.
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  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    His dislikes the idea of paid firefighters, hence being one causing him internal confusion. He is a self loather.
    I dislike career firefighters who don't volunteer in their homes communities.

    I dislike career members who show little if any respect for volunteers.

    I dislike career members who believe that career fire protection is the only effective form of fire protection and functioning volunteers and/or volunteer departments should be replaced or heavily supplemented with career members.

    I have many friends who are career members.

    I just don't share much in common with most other career members and would rather hang out with volunteers, who I feel like I have much more in common.

    And yes, I enjoy being around the volunteer house more than the career house.

    If you want to call that a self-loather have at it.

    The fact is my department determined a need for a primarily administrative position coupled with public education and training-delivery to take some of the burden of the DC and the Shift Captains. I never had a great desire to work as a paid member and was perfectly happy in my previous position, and was quite fulfilled as a volunteer performing some of the tasks that I currently perform. When I was offered the position I almost said no, but took it in great part for the benefits, holidays/vacation and retirement as compared to the pay, as I lost almost 15K in income the first year and I'm still down about 3K compared to what I was making previously.

    In built up areas, there is a need for career members and that need varies from department to department. However, in my combo department we have a very strong volunteer base who does provide the vast majority of our response capabilities. We need career members primarily for admin, maintenance, ALS EMS response to some degree, and yes, janitorial services. That is our role. To perform those tasks so that the volunteers don't have to do them. We support the volunteer response.

    When we hired the second shift firefighter, I felt (and still feel) we did not have a response based need for second shift member. We do have admin, maint and janitorial need, as well as a VERY limited response need for 2-3 additional paid daytime members.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 08-02-2013 at 04:59 PM.
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  12. #92
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ToDaRoof
    It has to do with the fact that every self-respecting career firefighter should be appreciative of what pays his bills and put that position ahead of any vollie house he takes part in. (You don't) A paid position is something that a majority of volunteers would die to have, yet you're the most ungrateful person I've ever seen to hold the spot. (You put your vollies ahead of your job) If you're as ungrateful for your job as you profess to be on this board, you're pathetic. I really hope you're not an active member the IAFF, for you've shown numerous times that you're against everything we stand for.

    I am very grateful for my position, and I not once have I not performed my duties in a professional manner. In a similar post I stated clearly that my volunteer commitments have never interfered with my job responsibilities on the career side. the couple of times that I was late for work on the career side because of a volunteer run were cleared by my Deputy Chief.

    Yet you NEVER pass up the opportunity to rag on, tear down, or speak ill of career firefighters. WHY? I am, or was until I retired, a two hatter, career and volly, to me we are all firefighters. You want to keep the war going to divide the career and volly firefighters. WHY? It is why nationally we are weak politically because they laugh as we tear at each other. they don't have to beat us, we beat ourselves because of stupid crap like you want to perpetuate.

    I simply stated that I have more respect for my volunteer brothers, and that includes the volunteers on my combo department, who perform the job for free and generally at considerable cost to their families, as compared to career members who are paid to perform those same tasks generally during a scheduled period. When I die, I hope that I am remembered as a good volunteer member v. a good career member. Does that mean that I don't appreciate the pay, excellent benefits, training and opportunities that I have been afforded as a career member? No. But I do take more pride in what I have accomplished on the volunteer side as a volunteer than what I have accomplished on the career side as a career member.

    This whole paragraph just proves again what a complete buffon you are. You respect your vollies that don't, won't, or can't, respond and if they do the majority can't go inside more than the fully trained career guys on your combo FD. Seriously, I have to ask you are you stupid or what? Respect them allyou want but to say you respect them more just shows how completely ridiculous and overwhelming your anti-paid guy bias is and how blinded you are by it. I don't respect excuse makers, I don't respect guys that don't pull their weight, and i don't respect guys that won't show up for training or calls, no matter how much they want the right to call themselves firefighters.

    Yes, I take pride in my career position. But I take more pride in my department and volunteer commitment. As I said, I want to be remembered more for what I have done as a vollie than what I have done as a career member.

    Why can't you as an individual take pride in simply being a firefighter instead of having to compartmentalize it? I was and still am proud of being a firefighter, both paid and volunteer. They are 2 different worlds 100 miles apart.

    And no, we are not unionized at my combo department


    It you were you would be kept very far out on the periphery of anything the Union was doing anyways. I am sure everyone there knows of your idiotic anti-Union bias.

    Not intended as a slam to the vollies here... But you're preaching one thing and practicing something else. And for those on the fence about two-hatters (remember, I am one), you're not helping the cause for the issue. My wife, son, and family come first. They inspire me to be the best I can be at my CAREER, and support my VOLUNTEER efforts when appropriate. Your priorities are fcked.


    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And how am I not helping "the cause", whatever that is.

    But purposely, with intent to widen the divide, having to over and over prove your anti-career bias.

    I show up every day at my career gig as scheduled, and perform the duties as assigned. And in fact, run significant calls when not on-duty and teach classes off the clock.

    Being online on firehouse multiple times a day spewing BS is part of your assigned duties? really?

    Now you run calls? you have said repeatedly that you don'tnormally respond.


    And I also fulfill my assigned duties at the VFD when available.

    I'm sure you do. Someone has to all the officers are out of town the majority of time.

    As an example, my combo gig worked a significant barn fire which killed 19 horses last night starting at 6PM. I left work at 5 PM to go to my VFD training night, where I was scheduled to teach at 6:30. I taught the class at my VFD as scheduled until 8:30, and then left to assist my combo department with the barn fire, which I did until almost 1 AM.

    I then got up at 6 AM and meet the fire investigators from the state at 7 and assisted them with the investigation until almost 2PM today. I then returned to my office and started my in-house cause & origin report.

    So in this example, exactly where did I not fulfill my obligation to my career gig?

    WOW! I have never heard of a 2 hatter working a fire all night on their volly FD and then going to work at their career job before. You are amazing!

    My job always comes first and I perform my job. That being said, again, I take far more pride in being a volunteer member than a career member, and always will. If you consider that Fcked, have at it.

    It is F***ED because you career job pays your bills and if you have more pride in doing it as a volly than doing it for your job your priorities are messed up. At least being equal would be defendable, but moreon the volly side is just ludicrous.

    By the way, I list my F.O.O.L.S affiliation as my VFD, not my career FD. I take that much pride in what I do as a volunteer. Do you consider that fcked?

    WOW! Awesome, because that is important why?
    Just more proof of how off track you are.
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  13. #93
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I dislike career firefighters who don't volunteer in their homes communities.

    I dislike VFDs that lie about stations being staffed and offering local protection from in that area volunteers. I dislike VFDs that can't provide interior fire attack capabilities and have an officer that pizzes and moans incessisantly about career firefighters but has no problem calling on a career FD for AMA to fight their fires for them. I dislike VFds that have the warm body policy for membership and then don't enforce any training or response minimum standards.

    Frankly, you can dislike career firefighters that don't meet your guidelines but to be honest a career FF that vollied to your VFD would have to be out of their mind when looking at the assumed liability. Further, if someone doesn't want to volunteer they don't have to and you can dislike it all you want.



    I dislike career members who show little if any respect for volunteers.

    I dislike idiots who are career firefighters themseleves that never pass up an opportunity to rag on career firefighters. Further the number of vollies that I see posting on here and I talk to in person that rag on career firefighters shows clearly it is a two way street. The "I get a pass because I do it for free vollies" make me want to puke up a whole days worth of meals.

    I dislike career members who believe that career fire protection is the only effective form of fire protection and functioning volunteers and/or volunteer departments should be replaced or heavily supplemented with career members.

    You seem to be amongst a tiny minority that keeps pushing this. I have only seen a couple of career members here push that.

    I have many friends who are career members.

    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHA! Usually said by people trying to hide a bias of one sort or another and replacing firefighter with whatever word is appropriate.

    I just don't share much in common with most other career members and would rather hang out with volunteers, who I feel like I have much more in common.

    I thought you said in a different topic that you don't hang out with firefighters when off duty. OOOOPS, did I catch you in another fib Bobby?

    And yes, I enjoy being around the volunteer house more than the career house.

    Probably because you make the career firefighters at your combo house want to wretch at the site of you.

    If you want to call that a self-loather have at it.

    Oh you are, you hate the fact that your living comes from being someone that you despise.

    The fact is my department determined a need for a primarily administrative position coupled with public education and training-delivery to take some of the burden of the DC and the Shift Captains. I never had a great desire to work as a paid member and was perfectly happy in my previous position, and was quite fulfilled as a volunteer performing some of the tasks that I currently perform. When I was offered the position I almost said no, but took it in great part for the benefits, holidays/vacation and retirement as compared to the pay, as I lost almost 15K in income the first year and I'm still down about 3K compared to what I was making previously.

    Golly, half heartedly decides to be a paid guy because of benefits and retirement, not for the love of the job. Your Sir are a mercenary.

    In built up areas, there is a need for career members and that need varies from department to department. However, in my combo department we have a very strong volunteer base who does provide the vast majority of our response capabilities. We need career members primarily for admin, maintenance, ALS EMS response to some degree, and yes, janitorial services. That is our role. To perform those tasks so that the volunteers don't have to do them. We support the volunteer response.

    Yet those career guys are the highest trained of all of your members...lack of logic seems to be a key in your area.

    When we hired the second shift firefighter, I felt (and still feel) we did not have a response based need for second shift member. We do have admin, maint and janitorial need, as well as a VERY limited response need for 2-3 additional paid daytime members.

    Um, who gives a flying crap what you think the need is? As you have copped out to whenever cornered you are not in the position to make those decisions. So are you questioning the Chief's decision here on an international forum?
    Just more blah blah blah from you Bobby.
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  14. #94
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    The department determined that they wanted more in the way of public education, as well as somebody to take both the administrative and much of the delivery burden of training and preplanning off the Deputy Chief.

    That was a department-level decision.
    AND because it benefitted you personally you support it. Yet you continue to find reasons to try and eliminate the other paid guys on your combo FD. real team player ain't ya Bobby?
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I dislike career firefighters who don't volunteer in their homes communities.

    I dislike career members who show little if any respect for volunteers.

    I dislike career members who believe that career fire protection is the only effective form of fire protection and functioning volunteers and/or volunteer departments should be replaced or heavily supplemented with career members.

    I have many friends who are career members.

    I just don't share much in common with most other career members and would rather hang out with volunteers, who I feel like I have much more in common.

    And yes, I enjoy being around the volunteer house more than the career house.

    If you want to call that a self-loather have at it.

    The fact is my department determined a need for a primarily administrative position coupled with public education and training-delivery to take some of the burden of the DC and the Shift Captains. I never had a great desire to work as a paid member and was perfectly happy in my previous position, and was quite fulfilled as a volunteer performing some of the tasks that I currently perform. When I was offered the position I almost said no, but took it in great part for the benefits, holidays/vacation and retirement as compared to the pay, as I lost almost 15K in income the first year and I'm still down about 3K compared to what I was making previously.

    In built up areas, there is a need for career members and that need varies from department to department. However, in my combo department we have a very strong volunteer base who does provide the vast majority of our response capabilities. We need career members primarily for admin, maintenance, ALS EMS response to some degree, and yes, janitorial services. That is our role. To perform those tasks so that the volunteers don't have to do them. We support the volunteer response.

    When we hired the second shift firefighter, I felt (and still feel) we did not have a response based need for second shift member. We do have admin, maint and janitorial need, as well as a VERY limited response need for 2-3 additional paid daytime members.
    The truth of the matter is that career firefighters offer better protection. Period. This is not an anti volunteer statement; it's just a statement of fact. It doesn't much matter what any given individual thinks about it. It's all about the time factor. Even in a rural setting I find it hard to believe that a five minute (or more) head start is not a big advantage. I also have a hard time believing that any firefighter, career or volunteer, could argue that point. It would be a fair assumption that the career firefighters are better trained than the volunteers which is another advantage.
    In addition, your statement about needing career firefighters to perform administrative, maintenance and janitorial functions so the volunteers don't have to is outright mind-boggling. I really have no other response to that statement.
    There are probably many reasons why career firefighters don't volunteer in their own communities. I won't list them all here but I know in my case the law was laid down many years ago by my wife. She was already losing me two nights a week and felt that was enough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    AND because it benefitted you personally you support it. Yet you continue to find reasons to try and eliminate the other paid guys on your combo FD. real team player ain't ya Bobby?
    Where have I ever said that they should be let go ?

    I have only stated that they would have been a far most cost-efficaint hire if they were hired as daytime personnel not shift personnel.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by captnjak View Post
    The truth of the matter is that career firefighters offer better protection. Period. This is not an anti volunteer statement; it's just a statement of fact. It doesn't much matter what any given individual thinks about it. It's all about the time factor. Even in a rural setting I find it hard to believe that a five minute (or more) head start is not a big advantage. I also have a hard time believing that any firefighter, career or volunteer, could argue that point. It would be a fair assumption that the career firefighters are better trained than the volunteers which is another advantage.
    In addition, your statement about needing career firefighters to perform administrative, maintenance and janitorial functions so the volunteers don't have to is outright mind-boggling. I really have no other response to that statement.
    There are probably many reasons why career firefighters don't volunteer in their own communities. I won't list them all here but I know in my case the law was laid down many years ago by my wife. She was already losing me two nights a week and felt that was enough.
    Career "Department" near me responds with 1 FF on an engine. Thats it. Based on radio messages, he decides to have the volunteer department dispatched as well.

    Sorry....but you are wrong. That 1 FF on an engine by himself is not offering better protection. He is actually delaying a larger response as it's not dispatched till he calls for it.

    Yes, it's a very odd/unique situation. But leads to that rule of never using "always" in the fire service.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Career "Department" near me responds with 1 FF on an engine. Thats it. Based on radio messages, he decides to have the volunteer department dispatched as well.

    Sorry....but you are wrong. That 1 FF on an engine by himself is not offering better protection. He is actually delaying a larger response as it's not dispatched till he calls for it.

    Yes, it's a very odd/unique situation. But leads to that rule of never using "always" in the fire service.
    I wouldn't consider that a career dept., they're only pretending to be one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Career "Department" near me responds with 1 FF on an engine. Thats it. Based on radio messages, he decides to have the volunteer department dispatched as well.

    Sorry....but you are wrong. That 1 FF on an engine by himself is not offering better protection. He is actually delaying a larger response as it's not dispatched till he calls for it.

    Yes, it's a very odd/unique situation. But leads to that rule of never using "always" in the fire service.
    I could make the argument that even one firefighter on scene is better than none. He could throw a ladder and make rescue at a window. He could use water in a defensive mode or possibly even start water as the beginning of a transitional attack. Or even just begin the water supply process, whatever that may mean locally. Plus you would at least have one firefighter on scene for size-up and transmission of reports. Yes, the one firefighter responding is a problem. But I believe you also have a serious flaw in your dispatch policy in not sending more resources (whatever THAT may mean locally) right from the start.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Career "Department" near me responds with 1 FF on an engine. Thats it. Based on radio messages, he decides to have the volunteer department dispatched as well.

    Sorry....but you are wrong. That 1 FF on an engine by himself is not offering better protection. He is actually delaying a larger response as it's not dispatched till he calls for it.

    Yes, it's a very odd/unique situation. But leads to that rule of never using "always" in the fire service.
    has anyone tried to change that?? like dispatch volunteers and then cancel as necessary??

    if i were the lone engine man, the first thing after recognizing the call is request additional resources

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