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Thread: Most Important FireFighting Question You want Answered: Please Suggest

  1. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    You don't pay attention, do you?

    Paid staff does not equal VFD.

    This is my combo gig.
    You're correct. I stopped paying attention to anything you write a long time ago.

    You've yet to put forth anything of substance.....or value.

    Regardless of which department.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    The second paid shift member was hired primarily to assist with administrative, rated-related testing and maintainence functions.

    Is he doing that? If so then quit complaining.

    Prior to his hire we had one paid firefighter per shift plus a part-time daytime position which was filled by qualified volunteers for line related mainataince and testing functions. If needed, myself of the Deputy Chief would assist on tasks such as hose, hydrant and pump testing.

    So who told the vollies they still can't come in and help the 2 guys on shift do that stuff? Heck, testing hose with just 2 people doesn't sound like much fun to me.

    On the weekend we have 2 daytime slots utilizing qualified volunteers, giving us 4 paid members on duty.

    So again, what is the problem?

    The second paid shift firefighter was also hired for additional points on the rating.

    Golly what a horror, doing something to make your fire rating better.

    I would have preferred to see them hired as daytime personnel working 10 or 12-hour shifts. As the3y are really not needed for evening response, it would have given us additional paid staff for daytime maintenance and testing functions..

    Who cares what you would have preferred you aren't in a command position so suck it up and get over it. You sound like a whiny petulant child on here complaining about this every chance you get.

    Our response is good, even during the day where it's not uncommon to get up to 10-12 volunteers for structure fires, significant brush fires and significant MVAs. At night we average 15-18 volunteers, and at times up to 25, for those types of incidents so evening manpower is not an issue.

    So what is the problem then? Geezus you are like the cranky old man that pizzes and moans about everything. Especally if you can make it a paid versus volly battle.

    The issue isn't that some of the members have thier feelings hurt, but no longer feel like they are needed for that routine EMS run that previously could have used and extra set of hands or two.

    So let me see if I have this right...Your vollies feel left out because on the "ROUTINE" ems calls, you know like transport gramma to the hospital because she is ill, or the bloody nose calls, or grampa fell down and can't get up, they don't feel needed. WOW! That is damn near criminal I think. Personally, if I could have rolled over and gone back to bed on any number of those calls over the years I would have. How many people do you really need there? Maybe 2, 3, or even 4, but certainly not 6, 7, 8 people in someone's home simply because they want to go on an ems call. Now if gramma is PNB then you need additional hands, or if it is a diabetic emergency with the person violent because of low blood sugar, or a stroke, or a car accident or some other serious trama then you need those extra hands. Honestly, I just don't see the problem here. Especially since your primary concern has been people being available to go to their jobs...
    I offered all kinds of options, and all you do is continue to do nothing but complain. The situation with your paid guys is as it is, the answer is to utilize a plan that involves those few vollies that want to go on the pick up gramma calls. How about you come up with a real answer instead of the easier route blame game for a change?
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    I offered all kinds of options, and all you do is continue to do nothing but complain. The situation with your paid guys is as it is, the answer is to utilize a plan that involves those few vollies that want to go on the pick up gramma calls. How about you come up with a real answer instead of the easier route blame game for a change?
    It is far easier to whine, complain , sob, bellyache, moan, harp, carp ,pule, repine, snivel, wail, whimper, yammer, cry, kvetch, gripe, grumble and bitch about something than it is to come up with a viable solution to it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    It is far easier to whine, complain , sob, bellyache, moan, harp, carp ,pule, repine, snivel, wail, whimper, yammer, cry, kvetch, gripe, grumble and bitch about something than it is to come up with a viable solution to it.
    Oh I know that Chief, and particularly with regards to this individual. I gave him 3 or 4 viable, workable options and he pooh poohed them all. With no answers of his own other than to undercut the Chief of Department here on an international forum.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Oh I know that Chief, and particularly with regards to this individual. I gave him 3 or 4 viable, workable options and he pooh poohed them all. With no answers of his own other than to undercut the Chief of Department here on an international forum.
    The trick is your ideas did not address the problem, which is simply that for many of these calls the volunteers ARE no longer needed, as there are now 4 sets of paid hands responding, unless it's a second or third simultaneous run. And we still get a great response to those additional runs when the situation arises..

    And as such they are feeling less involved in the day to day operation. We have many members that want to continue to respond to all of the EMS calls but don't because there is now a very limited need for them on scene.

    And yes, that was a concern that many of us had, including the Chief , when he decided to hire that second shift member.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    The trick is your ideas did not address the problem, which is simply that for many of these calls the volunteers ARE no longer needed, as there are now 4 sets of paid hands responding, unless it's a second or third simultaneous run. And we still get a great response to those additional runs when the situation arises..

    And as such they are feeling less involved in the day to day operation. We have many members that want to continue to respond to all of the EMS calls but don't because there is now a very limited need for them on scene.

    And yes, that was a concern that many of us had, including the Chief , when he decided to hire that second shift member.
    Then buy THOSE members jump kits and have them respond to the scene. If they live closer to the incident than the station there is no excuse for them not to arrive first, do an assessment, and start patient care. Then when the ambo and your paid guys arrive they can either hand off care or assist. WOW! A solution that keeps them involved and let's them do hands on. How amazing is that?
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    When does it come to the point that we say TOUGH BANANAS to the volunteers and move forward. Fyred has a good idea above, although I assume it will be rejected because the volunteers wont get to ride in the ambulance.
    The fire service is about service to our fellow man.
    There is a trust that must not be broken and we are the keepers of that trust.
    Captain Dave LeBlanc

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    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    When does it come to the point that we say TOUGH BANANAS to the volunteers and move forward. Fyred has a good idea above, although I assume it will be rejected because the volunteers wont get to ride in the ambulance.
    It sounds to me like they don't anyways. I thought LA said a private ambulance service does the transports.
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    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    When does it come to the point that we say TOUGH BANANAS to the volunteers and move forward. Fyred has a good idea above, although I assume it will be rejected because the volunteers wont get to ride in the ambulance.
    I would NEVER complain about not getting to ride the band aide buggy

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigGriffC12 View Post
    I would NEVER complain about not getting to ride the band aide buggy
    Especially to the taxi type calls!
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    It sounds to me like they don't anyways. I thought LA said a private ambulance service does the transports.
    In my combination department parish, the parish runs a tax-supported third service that does all the transports.

    We have a unit stationed at our Central Station.

    There is a reserve unit housed at our station that our fire department personal will man two or three times a month when all 5 units in the parish are out, or in an MCI situation.

    In my volunteer parish, yes, all transports are done by 2 privates that run 911 response on a rotating schedule.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Then buy THOSE members jump kits and have them respond to the scene. If they live closer to the incident than the station there is no excuse for them not to arrive first, do an assessment, and start patient care. Then when the ambo and your paid guys arrive they can either hand off care or assist. WOW! A solution that keeps them involved and let's them do hands on. How amazing is that?
    We have been doing exactly that for 20 plus years.

    The issue is that the volunteers are simply becoming needed less and less once the paid staff arrives on scene for those routine runs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    We have been doing exactly that for 20 plus years.

    So what is the problem then?

    The issue is that the volunteers are simply becoming needed less and less once the paid staff arrives on scene for those routine runs.

    Here's some advice then. IF, as first responders they are still doing patient care, even if only before the ambo arrives what MORE do they want? To ride in the vomit comet on the way to the hospital? What? Even on my former career FD if the Truck arrived before the ambo we initiated care and when the ambo arrived handed off to them and if they needed us we continued to help otherwise we stepped back, let them do their thing, and then helped move the patient and the equipment to the ambulance.
    With what you have said in this post it sounds to me like a bunch of hurt feelings whiney vollies that don't like the fact that they aren't top dogs, and frankly never were, if the third service ambo service does transports. My suggestion?, GET OVER IT, and remember the mission, fast, efficient, and skilled care of the patient.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Then buy THOSE members jump kits and have them respond to the scene. If they live closer to the incident than the station there is no excuse for them not to arrive first, do an assessment, and start patient care. Then when the ambo and your paid guys arrive they can either hand off care or assist. WOW! A solution that keeps them involved and let's them do hands on. How amazing is that?
    Yes, they still do the initial assessment if they arrive before the paid staff.

    And maybe they are just whiney because they are no longer as important as they were. And not addressing that in some way very well might cause some of them to leave.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 08-07-2013 at 03:41 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Yes, they still do the initial assessment if they arrive before the paid staff.

    And maybe they are just whiney because they are no longer as important as they were. And not addressing that in some way very well might cause some of them to leave.
    I'm sorry, but they shouldn't be there to feel important. They should be there to help the patient.




    You are starting to embarrass them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    With what you have said in this post it sounds to me like a bunch of hurt feelings whiney vollies that don't like the fact that they aren't top dogs, and frankly never were, if the third service ambo service does transports. My suggestion?, GET OVER IT, and remember the mission, fast, efficient, and skilled care of the patient.
    I believe I covered it quite well with the hurt feelings and tough bananas comments.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Yes, they still do the initial assessment if they arrive before the paid staff.

    AGAIN, so what is the problem? They are still doing the job. Did they used to ride in on the ambulance? If not, then what has changed?

    And maybe they are just whiney because they are no longer as important as they were. And not addressing that in some way very well might cause some of them to leave.

    Bobby, please tell me this paragraph isn't serious. Because if your vollies joined to be important they have not one single D**N clue what they are there for. People joining the FD or EMS service need to remember the reason for being there is to serve the public, NOT themselves. Save lives and protect property. It doesn't get much simpler than that.

    If members leave because they aren't as "Important" as they once were then I say see ya, good bye, don't let the door hit you in the azz on the way out. Someone needs to have a heart to heart chat with these people and explain the FD and EMS isn't there for them...
    Just when I think you have said the stupidest most pathetic thing ever you prove me wrong and go even farther. Honestly you have made your volunteers look like a bunch of whiney little children because they aren't getting what they want. What's next you telling us about them holding their breath?
    Last edited by FyredUp; 08-08-2013 at 12:45 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Yes, they still do the initial assessment if they arrive before the paid staff.

    And maybe they are just whiney because they are no longer as important as they were. And not addressing that in some way very well might cause some of them to leave.
    Continuing to prove why your VFD is a joke. Best part is, you did all the work in proving that point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Blah blah blah same old bullschitt and nonsense, no need to quote it.
    I have to be honest here, I don't see a problem... The ambo is getting out the door, the citizens are getting taken care of, and the vollies get to sleep so they are rested for work the next day, (which you've repeatedly stated is your primary goal, get them to work the next day).

    So what's the issue here? Are you upset that your citizens are getting taken care of? Isn't that the goal of fire and EMS? Why do you go have a nice tall glass of shut the f*ck up, because no one here wants to here your same old tired bullschitt whining.

    OH NO!!! I don't have to get up at 3am to go pick grandma up off the floor! However will I go on!

    You're schitting me right? These are the problems you bring to the table when other departments are struggling to get gear, get trucks, put fuel in the trucks, get tools, get membership, and you, with a $160k budget, apparently 42+ members on the roster, 2 new rigs on the way, and however many stations you have, decide to bring up and legitimately complain about the fact that some members are upset because they don't feel they are needed to go pick pizz soaked grandma up off the floor.... Get a grip dude....

    I'd like to say I can't believe this. But I'd be lying.
    Last edited by Chenzo; 08-09-2013 at 12:31 AM.
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    Good to have ya back Chenzo. Haven't heard from ya in a while.
    I am sitting in my easy chair (natural habitat) and heard what sounded like a huge b***h slap in the distance...... so I log on, yep, Chenzos back!
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    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    Good to have ya back Chenzo. Haven't heard from ya in a while.
    I am sitting in my easy chair (natural habitat) and heard what sounded like a huge b***h slap in the distance...... so I log on, yep, Chenzos back!
    Been a while brother. Been lurking a lot, just not posting. I'm willing to bet I'll be back in full swing with this thread going.
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    I have to be honest here, I don't see a problem... The ambo is getting out the door, the citizens are getting taken care of, and the vollies get to sleep so they are rested for work the next day, (which you've repeatedly stated is your primary goal, get them to work the next day).

    So what's the issue here? Are you upset that your citizens are getting taken care of? Isn't that the goal of fire and EMS? Why do you go have a nice tall glass of shut the f*ck up, because no one here wants to here your same old tired bullschitt whining.

    OH NO!!! I don't have to get up at 3am to go pick grandma up off the floor! However will I go on!

    You're schitting me right? These are the problems you bring to the table when other departments are struggling to get gear, get trucks, put fuel in the trucks, get tools, get membership, and you, with a $160k budget, apparently 42+ members on the roster, 2 new rigs on the way, and however many stations you have, decide to bring up and legitimately complain about the fact that some members are upset because they don't feel they are needed to go pick pizz soaked grandma up off the floor.... Get a grip dude....

    I'd like to say I can't believe this. But I'd be lying.
    Just to straighten things out bro ... This is my combo department with a $1.2M budget, 8 full-time members, a couple of part-timer slots and 90 members including support personnel and dispatchers.

    And yes, it is an issue. As we hire more career members the role of the volunteers becomes less and less on the routine, everyday calls that are being increasingly handled by the career staff. At some point that will lead to volunteers being less involved and engaged, and will lead to some of them leaving the department.

    And yes, that is an issue and it happens when career members are added. And in the end that could lead to having to hire more career members to replace the volunteers who feel disengaged and leave, costing the community more for fire protection.

    We have always been a department where the career staff exists to support the volunteers, not a department where the volunteers support the career staff, and I fear that we may be slowly drifting in that direction. If that happened, not only would it be an insult to the volunteers who are still willing to provide effective service, but it would also be a disserve to the residents who will end up paying far more for career staffing if the volunteers become less involved in day to day responses, less interested, and leave the department.

    And yes, I am very concerned about the volunteers on this department. I don't want to see it go the way of the other 2 combo departments in the parish, and most of the combo departments in the neighboring parish to the west where volunteers have become far less important in their operations.

    As far as the citizens, the EMS delivery system was working quite well before the addition of the second paid shift member.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 08-09-2013 at 10:53 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    Been a while brother. Been lurking a lot, just not posting. I'm willing to bet I'll be back in full swing with this thread going.
    Be patient with LAFE. He has low standards and continually tells us why he fails to achieve them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Just to straighten things out bro ... This is my combo department with a $1.2M budget, 8 full-time members, a couple of part-timer slots and 90 members including support personnel and dispatchers.

    And yes, it is an issue. As we hire more career members the role of the volunteers becomes less and less on the routine, everyday calls that are being increasingly handled by the career staff. At some point that will lead to volunteers being less involved and engaged, and will lead to some of them leaving the department.

    And yes, that is an issue and it happens when career members are added. And in the end that could lead to having to hire more career members to replace the volunteers who feel disengaged and leave, costing the community more for fire protection.

    We have always been a department where the career staff exists to support the volunteers, not a department where the volunteers support the career staff, and I fear that we may be slowly drifting in that direction. If that happened, not only would it be an insult to the volunteers who are still willing to provide effective service, but it would also be a disserve to the residents who will end up paying far more for career staffing if the volunteers become less involved in day to day responses, less interested, and leave the department.

    And yes, I am very concerned about the volunteers on this department. I don't want to see it go the way of the other 2 combo departments in the parish, and most of the combo departments in the neighboring parish to the west where volunteers have become far less important in their operations.

    As far as the citizens, the EMS delivery system was working quite well before the addition of the second paid shift member.
    More bovine scat and blather....
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    So the volunteers figure if they are not king s**t and no one is kissing their a**, they are gonna quit? Yep, I would be much prouder to be a volunteer than a career member. Ridiculous.
    The fire service is about service to our fellow man.
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