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Thread: Most Important FireFighting Question You want Answered: Please Suggest

  1. #121
    Forum Member conrad427's Avatar
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    So why was more paid staff hired? Was it because someone just wanted to spend more money? I am wondering how the volunteer fire service gets anything done, what with having its feelings hurt all the time.
    The fire service is about service to our fellow man.
    There is a trust that must not be broken and we are the keepers of that trust.
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  2. #122
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    So is the "career" department and "volunteer department" in the same town?

    Are they two separate organizations or separate divisions of the same department?

    If so, are they both funded by the town?

    Who is in charge at an incident?

    It sounds like a confusing system if they are actually 2 separate departments.
    Same town. 3 vol stations 1 paid.

    Yes, both funded by town, in different ways. Direct tax for paid dept, part of overall tax for vol stations.

    Volunteers when they are called. Paid guy will make attack, when vols show up, he packs up his truck and leaves...making himself available for other calls.

    Not confusing at all...very simple operation. Other than fact of 1 man interior attack being against multiple initials rules and delay in larger response.

    PS - EMS in the town is volunteer, although adding some daytime paid responders. Completely separate organization and not part of FD.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  3. #123
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    The second paid shift member was hired primarily to assist with administrative, rated-related testing and maintainence functions.

    Prior to his hire we had one paid firefighter per shift plus a part-time daytime position which was filled by qualified volunteers for line related mainataince and testing functions. If needed, myself of the Deputy Chief would assist on tasks such as hose, hydrant and pump testing.

    On the weekend we have 2 daytime slots utilizing qualified volunteers, giving us 4 paid members on duty.

    The second paid shift firefighter was also hired for additional points on the rating.

    I would have preferred to see them hired as daytime personnel working 10 or 12-hour shifts. As the3y are really not needed for evening response, it would have given us additional paid staff for daytime maintenance and testing functions..

    Our response is good, even during the day where it's not uncommon to get up to 10-12 volunteers for structure fires, significant brush fires and significant MVAs. At night we average 15-18 volunteers, and at times up to 25, for those types of incidents so evening manpower is not an issue.

    The issue isn't that some of the members have thier feelings hurt, but no longer feel like they are needed for that routine EMS run that previously could have used and extra set of hands or two.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 08-06-2013 at 09:53 AM.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  4. #124
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    The second paid shift member was hired primarily to assist with administrative, rated-related testing and maintainence functions.

    Prior to his hire we had one paid firefighter per shift plus a part-time daytime position which was filled by qualified volunteers for line related mainataince and testing functions. If needed, myself of the Deputy Chief would assist on tasks such as hose, hydrant and pump testing.

    On the weekend we have 2 daytime slots utilizing qualified volunteers, giving us 4 paid members on duty.

    The second paid shift firefighter was also hired for additional points on the rating.

    I would have preferred to see them hired as daytime personnel working 10 or 12-hour shifts. That way they could have worked rotating schedules and it would have given us at least one extra paid member on the weekend days.

    Our response is good, even during the day where it's not uncommon to get up to 10-12 volunteers for structure fires, significant brush fires and significant MVAs. At night we average 15-18 volunteers, and at times up to 25, for those types of incidents so evening manpower is not an issue.

    The issue isn't that some of the members have thier feelings hurt, but no longer feel like they are needed for that routine EMS run that previously could have used and extra set of hands or two.
    ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.......who cares? Your VFD is a joke.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.......who cares? Your VFD is a joke.
    You don't pay attention, do you?

    Paid staff does not equal VFD.

    This is my combo gig.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  6. #126
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    You don't pay attention, do you?

    Paid staff does not equal VFD.

    This is my combo gig.
    You're correct. I stopped paying attention to anything you write a long time ago.

    You've yet to put forth anything of substance.....or value.

    Regardless of which department.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  7. #127
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    The second paid shift member was hired primarily to assist with administrative, rated-related testing and maintainence functions.

    Is he doing that? If so then quit complaining.

    Prior to his hire we had one paid firefighter per shift plus a part-time daytime position which was filled by qualified volunteers for line related mainataince and testing functions. If needed, myself of the Deputy Chief would assist on tasks such as hose, hydrant and pump testing.

    So who told the vollies they still can't come in and help the 2 guys on shift do that stuff? Heck, testing hose with just 2 people doesn't sound like much fun to me.

    On the weekend we have 2 daytime slots utilizing qualified volunteers, giving us 4 paid members on duty.

    So again, what is the problem?

    The second paid shift firefighter was also hired for additional points on the rating.

    Golly what a horror, doing something to make your fire rating better.

    I would have preferred to see them hired as daytime personnel working 10 or 12-hour shifts. As the3y are really not needed for evening response, it would have given us additional paid staff for daytime maintenance and testing functions..

    Who cares what you would have preferred you aren't in a command position so suck it up and get over it. You sound like a whiny petulant child on here complaining about this every chance you get.

    Our response is good, even during the day where it's not uncommon to get up to 10-12 volunteers for structure fires, significant brush fires and significant MVAs. At night we average 15-18 volunteers, and at times up to 25, for those types of incidents so evening manpower is not an issue.

    So what is the problem then? Geezus you are like the cranky old man that pizzes and moans about everything. Especally if you can make it a paid versus volly battle.

    The issue isn't that some of the members have thier feelings hurt, but no longer feel like they are needed for that routine EMS run that previously could have used and extra set of hands or two.

    So let me see if I have this right...Your vollies feel left out because on the "ROUTINE" ems calls, you know like transport gramma to the hospital because she is ill, or the bloody nose calls, or grampa fell down and can't get up, they don't feel needed. WOW! That is damn near criminal I think. Personally, if I could have rolled over and gone back to bed on any number of those calls over the years I would have. How many people do you really need there? Maybe 2, 3, or even 4, but certainly not 6, 7, 8 people in someone's home simply because they want to go on an ems call. Now if gramma is PNB then you need additional hands, or if it is a diabetic emergency with the person violent because of low blood sugar, or a stroke, or a car accident or some other serious trama then you need those extra hands. Honestly, I just don't see the problem here. Especially since your primary concern has been people being available to go to their jobs...
    I offered all kinds of options, and all you do is continue to do nothing but complain. The situation with your paid guys is as it is, the answer is to utilize a plan that involves those few vollies that want to go on the pick up gramma calls. How about you come up with a real answer instead of the easier route blame game for a change?
    “The person who risks nothing, does nothing, has nothing, is nothing, and becomes nothing. He may avoid suffering and sorrow, but he simply cannot learn and feel and change and grow and love and live.” Leo F. Buscaglia

    This place gets weirder and weirder every day...

  8. #128
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    I offered all kinds of options, and all you do is continue to do nothing but complain. The situation with your paid guys is as it is, the answer is to utilize a plan that involves those few vollies that want to go on the pick up gramma calls. How about you come up with a real answer instead of the easier route blame game for a change?
    It is far easier to whine, complain , sob, bellyache, moan, harp, carp ,pule, repine, snivel, wail, whimper, yammer, cry, kvetch, gripe, grumble and bitch about something than it is to come up with a viable solution to it.
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  9. #129
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    It is far easier to whine, complain , sob, bellyache, moan, harp, carp ,pule, repine, snivel, wail, whimper, yammer, cry, kvetch, gripe, grumble and bitch about something than it is to come up with a viable solution to it.
    Oh I know that Chief, and particularly with regards to this individual. I gave him 3 or 4 viable, workable options and he pooh poohed them all. With no answers of his own other than to undercut the Chief of Department here on an international forum.
    scfire86 likes this.
    “The person who risks nothing, does nothing, has nothing, is nothing, and becomes nothing. He may avoid suffering and sorrow, but he simply cannot learn and feel and change and grow and love and live.” Leo F. Buscaglia

    This place gets weirder and weirder every day...

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Oh I know that Chief, and particularly with regards to this individual. I gave him 3 or 4 viable, workable options and he pooh poohed them all. With no answers of his own other than to undercut the Chief of Department here on an international forum.
    The trick is your ideas did not address the problem, which is simply that for many of these calls the volunteers ARE no longer needed, as there are now 4 sets of paid hands responding, unless it's a second or third simultaneous run. And we still get a great response to those additional runs when the situation arises..

    And as such they are feeling less involved in the day to day operation. We have many members that want to continue to respond to all of the EMS calls but don't because there is now a very limited need for them on scene.

    And yes, that was a concern that many of us had, including the Chief , when he decided to hire that second shift member.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  11. #131
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    The trick is your ideas did not address the problem, which is simply that for many of these calls the volunteers ARE no longer needed, as there are now 4 sets of paid hands responding, unless it's a second or third simultaneous run. And we still get a great response to those additional runs when the situation arises..

    And as such they are feeling less involved in the day to day operation. We have many members that want to continue to respond to all of the EMS calls but don't because there is now a very limited need for them on scene.

    And yes, that was a concern that many of us had, including the Chief , when he decided to hire that second shift member.
    Then buy THOSE members jump kits and have them respond to the scene. If they live closer to the incident than the station there is no excuse for them not to arrive first, do an assessment, and start patient care. Then when the ambo and your paid guys arrive they can either hand off care or assist. WOW! A solution that keeps them involved and let's them do hands on. How amazing is that?
    “The person who risks nothing, does nothing, has nothing, is nothing, and becomes nothing. He may avoid suffering and sorrow, but he simply cannot learn and feel and change and grow and love and live.” Leo F. Buscaglia

    This place gets weirder and weirder every day...

  12. #132
    Forum Member conrad427's Avatar
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    When does it come to the point that we say TOUGH BANANAS to the volunteers and move forward. Fyred has a good idea above, although I assume it will be rejected because the volunteers wont get to ride in the ambulance.
    The fire service is about service to our fellow man.
    There is a trust that must not be broken and we are the keepers of that trust.
    Captain Dave LeBlanc

  13. #133
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    When does it come to the point that we say TOUGH BANANAS to the volunteers and move forward. Fyred has a good idea above, although I assume it will be rejected because the volunteers wont get to ride in the ambulance.
    It sounds to me like they don't anyways. I thought LA said a private ambulance service does the transports.
    “The person who risks nothing, does nothing, has nothing, is nothing, and becomes nothing. He may avoid suffering and sorrow, but he simply cannot learn and feel and change and grow and love and live.” Leo F. Buscaglia

    This place gets weirder and weirder every day...

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    When does it come to the point that we say TOUGH BANANAS to the volunteers and move forward. Fyred has a good idea above, although I assume it will be rejected because the volunteers wont get to ride in the ambulance.
    I would NEVER complain about not getting to ride the band aide buggy

  15. #135
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigGriffC12 View Post
    I would NEVER complain about not getting to ride the band aide buggy
    Especially to the taxi type calls!
    “The person who risks nothing, does nothing, has nothing, is nothing, and becomes nothing. He may avoid suffering and sorrow, but he simply cannot learn and feel and change and grow and love and live.” Leo F. Buscaglia

    This place gets weirder and weirder every day...

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    It sounds to me like they don't anyways. I thought LA said a private ambulance service does the transports.
    In my combination department parish, the parish runs a tax-supported third service that does all the transports.

    We have a unit stationed at our Central Station.

    There is a reserve unit housed at our station that our fire department personal will man two or three times a month when all 5 units in the parish are out, or in an MCI situation.

    In my volunteer parish, yes, all transports are done by 2 privates that run 911 response on a rotating schedule.
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  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Then buy THOSE members jump kits and have them respond to the scene. If they live closer to the incident than the station there is no excuse for them not to arrive first, do an assessment, and start patient care. Then when the ambo and your paid guys arrive they can either hand off care or assist. WOW! A solution that keeps them involved and let's them do hands on. How amazing is that?
    We have been doing exactly that for 20 plus years.

    The issue is that the volunteers are simply becoming needed less and less once the paid staff arrives on scene for those routine runs.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  18. #138
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    We have been doing exactly that for 20 plus years.

    So what is the problem then?

    The issue is that the volunteers are simply becoming needed less and less once the paid staff arrives on scene for those routine runs.

    Here's some advice then. IF, as first responders they are still doing patient care, even if only before the ambo arrives what MORE do they want? To ride in the vomit comet on the way to the hospital? What? Even on my former career FD if the Truck arrived before the ambo we initiated care and when the ambo arrived handed off to them and if they needed us we continued to help otherwise we stepped back, let them do their thing, and then helped move the patient and the equipment to the ambulance.
    With what you have said in this post it sounds to me like a bunch of hurt feelings whiney vollies that don't like the fact that they aren't top dogs, and frankly never were, if the third service ambo service does transports. My suggestion?, GET OVER IT, and remember the mission, fast, efficient, and skilled care of the patient.
    slackjawedyokel likes this.
    “The person who risks nothing, does nothing, has nothing, is nothing, and becomes nothing. He may avoid suffering and sorrow, but he simply cannot learn and feel and change and grow and love and live.” Leo F. Buscaglia

    This place gets weirder and weirder every day...

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Then buy THOSE members jump kits and have them respond to the scene. If they live closer to the incident than the station there is no excuse for them not to arrive first, do an assessment, and start patient care. Then when the ambo and your paid guys arrive they can either hand off care or assist. WOW! A solution that keeps them involved and let's them do hands on. How amazing is that?
    Yes, they still do the initial assessment if they arrive before the paid staff.

    And maybe they are just whiney because they are no longer as important as they were. And not addressing that in some way very well might cause some of them to leave.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 08-07-2013 at 03:41 PM.
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  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Yes, they still do the initial assessment if they arrive before the paid staff.

    And maybe they are just whiney because they are no longer as important as they were. And not addressing that in some way very well might cause some of them to leave.
    I'm sorry, but they shouldn't be there to feel important. They should be there to help the patient.




    You are starting to embarrass them.
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    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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