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Thread: Most Important FireFighting Question You want Answered: Please Suggest

  1. #141
    Forum Member conrad427's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    With what you have said in this post it sounds to me like a bunch of hurt feelings whiney vollies that don't like the fact that they aren't top dogs, and frankly never were, if the third service ambo service does transports. My suggestion?, GET OVER IT, and remember the mission, fast, efficient, and skilled care of the patient.
    I believe I covered it quite well with the hurt feelings and tough bananas comments.
    FyredUp likes this.
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  2. #142
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Yes, they still do the initial assessment if they arrive before the paid staff.

    AGAIN, so what is the problem? They are still doing the job. Did they used to ride in on the ambulance? If not, then what has changed?

    And maybe they are just whiney because they are no longer as important as they were. And not addressing that in some way very well might cause some of them to leave.

    Bobby, please tell me this paragraph isn't serious. Because if your vollies joined to be important they have not one single D**N clue what they are there for. People joining the FD or EMS service need to remember the reason for being there is to serve the public, NOT themselves. Save lives and protect property. It doesn't get much simpler than that.

    If members leave because they aren't as "Important" as they once were then I say see ya, good bye, don't let the door hit you in the azz on the way out. Someone needs to have a heart to heart chat with these people and explain the FD and EMS isn't there for them...
    Just when I think you have said the stupidest most pathetic thing ever you prove me wrong and go even farther. Honestly you have made your volunteers look like a bunch of whiney little children because they aren't getting what they want. What's next you telling us about them holding their breath?
    Last edited by FyredUp; 08-08-2013 at 12:45 AM.
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  3. #143
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Yes, they still do the initial assessment if they arrive before the paid staff.

    And maybe they are just whiney because they are no longer as important as they were. And not addressing that in some way very well might cause some of them to leave.
    Continuing to prove why your VFD is a joke. Best part is, you did all the work in proving that point.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  4. #144
    Forum Member Chenzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Blah blah blah same old bullschitt and nonsense, no need to quote it.
    I have to be honest here, I don't see a problem... The ambo is getting out the door, the citizens are getting taken care of, and the vollies get to sleep so they are rested for work the next day, (which you've repeatedly stated is your primary goal, get them to work the next day).

    So what's the issue here? Are you upset that your citizens are getting taken care of? Isn't that the goal of fire and EMS? Why do you go have a nice tall glass of shut the f*ck up, because no one here wants to here your same old tired bullschitt whining.

    OH NO!!! I don't have to get up at 3am to go pick grandma up off the floor! However will I go on!

    You're schitting me right? These are the problems you bring to the table when other departments are struggling to get gear, get trucks, put fuel in the trucks, get tools, get membership, and you, with a $160k budget, apparently 42+ members on the roster, 2 new rigs on the way, and however many stations you have, decide to bring up and legitimately complain about the fact that some members are upset because they don't feel they are needed to go pick pizz soaked grandma up off the floor.... Get a grip dude....

    I'd like to say I can't believe this. But I'd be lying.
    Last edited by Chenzo; 08-09-2013 at 12:31 AM.
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

  5. #145
    Forum Member conrad427's Avatar
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    Good to have ya back Chenzo. Haven't heard from ya in a while.
    I am sitting in my easy chair (natural habitat) and heard what sounded like a huge b***h slap in the distance...... so I log on, yep, Chenzos back!
    The fire service is about service to our fellow man.
    There is a trust that must not be broken and we are the keepers of that trust.
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  6. #146
    Forum Member Chenzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    Good to have ya back Chenzo. Haven't heard from ya in a while.
    I am sitting in my easy chair (natural habitat) and heard what sounded like a huge b***h slap in the distance...... so I log on, yep, Chenzos back!
    Been a while brother. Been lurking a lot, just not posting. I'm willing to bet I'll be back in full swing with this thread going.
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    I have to be honest here, I don't see a problem... The ambo is getting out the door, the citizens are getting taken care of, and the vollies get to sleep so they are rested for work the next day, (which you've repeatedly stated is your primary goal, get them to work the next day).

    So what's the issue here? Are you upset that your citizens are getting taken care of? Isn't that the goal of fire and EMS? Why do you go have a nice tall glass of shut the f*ck up, because no one here wants to here your same old tired bullschitt whining.

    OH NO!!! I don't have to get up at 3am to go pick grandma up off the floor! However will I go on!

    You're schitting me right? These are the problems you bring to the table when other departments are struggling to get gear, get trucks, put fuel in the trucks, get tools, get membership, and you, with a $160k budget, apparently 42+ members on the roster, 2 new rigs on the way, and however many stations you have, decide to bring up and legitimately complain about the fact that some members are upset because they don't feel they are needed to go pick pizz soaked grandma up off the floor.... Get a grip dude....

    I'd like to say I can't believe this. But I'd be lying.
    Just to straighten things out bro ... This is my combo department with a $1.2M budget, 8 full-time members, a couple of part-timer slots and 90 members including support personnel and dispatchers.

    And yes, it is an issue. As we hire more career members the role of the volunteers becomes less and less on the routine, everyday calls that are being increasingly handled by the career staff. At some point that will lead to volunteers being less involved and engaged, and will lead to some of them leaving the department.

    And yes, that is an issue and it happens when career members are added. And in the end that could lead to having to hire more career members to replace the volunteers who feel disengaged and leave, costing the community more for fire protection.

    We have always been a department where the career staff exists to support the volunteers, not a department where the volunteers support the career staff, and I fear that we may be slowly drifting in that direction. If that happened, not only would it be an insult to the volunteers who are still willing to provide effective service, but it would also be a disserve to the residents who will end up paying far more for career staffing if the volunteers become less involved in day to day responses, less interested, and leave the department.

    And yes, I am very concerned about the volunteers on this department. I don't want to see it go the way of the other 2 combo departments in the parish, and most of the combo departments in the neighboring parish to the west where volunteers have become far less important in their operations.

    As far as the citizens, the EMS delivery system was working quite well before the addition of the second paid shift member.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 08-09-2013 at 10:53 AM.
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  8. #148
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    Been a while brother. Been lurking a lot, just not posting. I'm willing to bet I'll be back in full swing with this thread going.
    Be patient with LAFE. He has low standards and continually tells us why he fails to achieve them.
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  9. #149
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Just to straighten things out bro ... This is my combo department with a $1.2M budget, 8 full-time members, a couple of part-timer slots and 90 members including support personnel and dispatchers.

    And yes, it is an issue. As we hire more career members the role of the volunteers becomes less and less on the routine, everyday calls that are being increasingly handled by the career staff. At some point that will lead to volunteers being less involved and engaged, and will lead to some of them leaving the department.

    And yes, that is an issue and it happens when career members are added. And in the end that could lead to having to hire more career members to replace the volunteers who feel disengaged and leave, costing the community more for fire protection.

    We have always been a department where the career staff exists to support the volunteers, not a department where the volunteers support the career staff, and I fear that we may be slowly drifting in that direction. If that happened, not only would it be an insult to the volunteers who are still willing to provide effective service, but it would also be a disserve to the residents who will end up paying far more for career staffing if the volunteers become less involved in day to day responses, less interested, and leave the department.

    And yes, I am very concerned about the volunteers on this department. I don't want to see it go the way of the other 2 combo departments in the parish, and most of the combo departments in the neighboring parish to the west where volunteers have become far less important in their operations.

    As far as the citizens, the EMS delivery system was working quite well before the addition of the second paid shift member.
    More bovine scat and blather....
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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  10. #150
    Forum Member conrad427's Avatar
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    So the volunteers figure if they are not king s**t and no one is kissing their a**, they are gonna quit? Yep, I would be much prouder to be a volunteer than a career member. Ridiculous.
    The fire service is about service to our fellow man.
    There is a trust that must not be broken and we are the keepers of that trust.
    Captain Dave LeBlanc

  11. #151
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    I have helped several volunteer fds get started. Our purpose was to "provide fire protection where there was none" - If and when they get annexed and served by a full time FD, job done. End of story.
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  12. #152
    Forum Member Chenzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Just to straighten things out bro ... This is my combo department with a $1.2M budget, 8 full-time members, a couple of part-timer slots and 90 members including support personnel and dispatchers.

    And yes, it is an issue. As we hire more career members the role of the volunteers becomes less and less on the routine, everyday calls that are being increasingly handled by the career staff. At some point that will lead to volunteers being less involved and engaged, and will lead to some of them leaving the department.

    And yes, that is an issue and it happens when career members are added. And in the end that could lead to having to hire more career members to replace the volunteers who feel disengaged and leave, costing the community more for fire protection.

    We have always been a department where the career staff exists to support the volunteers, not a department where the volunteers support the career staff, and I fear that we may be slowly drifting in that direction. If that happened, not only would it be an insult to the volunteers who are still willing to provide effective service, but it would also be a disserve to the residents who will end up paying far more for career staffing if the volunteers become less involved in day to day responses, less interested, and leave the department.

    And yes, I am very concerned about the volunteers on this department. I don't want to see it go the way of the other 2 combo departments in the parish, and most of the combo departments in the neighboring parish to the west where volunteers have become far less important in their operations.

    As far as the citizens, the EMS delivery system was working quite well before the addition of the second paid shift member.
    Nothing you said made anything I said a moot point...

    My point was, and still is, the citizens are getting fire protection and EMS care. Who the hell cares if it comes from vollies or paid guys. (Trick question, obviously you care)

    You're so strong and supportive of vollies, and so opposed to career members, yet you keep reinforcing that you can't hold vollies to the same standards as career members as far as training and attendance goes, but you still hold your vollie members to a higher respect than your career members even though your facilitating them being a lesser trained, essentially sub-par firefighter.... You're an odd duck, Bobby.

    And before anyone jumps on my *** about the vollie comments, I AM a vollie, on two departments. I guess I just hold myself to a higher standard than some.
    DeputyChiefGonzo likes this.
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

  13. #153
    Forum Member conrad427's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    Nothing you said made anything I said a moot point...

    My point was, and still is, the citizens are getting fire protection and EMS care. Who the hell cares if it comes from vollies or paid guys. (Trick question, obviously you care)

    You're so strong and supportive of vollies, and so opposed to career members, yet you keep reinforcing that you can't hold vollies to the same standards as career members as far as training and attendance goes, but you still hold your vollie members to a higher respect than your career members even though your facilitating them being a lesser trained, essentially sub-par firefighter.... You're an odd duck, Bobby.

    And before anyone jumps on my *** about the vollie comments, I AM a vollie, on two departments. I guess I just hold myself to a higher standard than some.
    You don't think it makes more sense to have better trained personnel in a support role to lesser trained personnel when it comes to providing fire protection and ems services to the community?
    In my book, doing it for free does not equal dedication.
    The fire service is about service to our fellow man.
    There is a trust that must not be broken and we are the keepers of that trust.
    Captain Dave LeBlanc

  14. #154
    Forum Member Chenzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    You don't think it makes more sense to have better trained personnel in a support role to lesser trained personnel when it comes to providing fire protection and ems services to the community?

    Quite frankly, I don't care how it happens. Better trained supporting lesser trained, lesser trained supporting better trained, career, volunteer, paid on call, combination. To me, it's all about delivering the services to the community that you signed or applied to protect. As long as the necessary services are provided, and you don't make excuses for doing the job, I don't care if it's a volunteer department, a career department, vollies supplementing the career guys, or career guys supplementing the vollies. Whatever works best for your area. Unfortunately for LAFE, his beliefs got over ruled here. It would appear as though they thought adding another career member would be what's best for the community.
    In my book, doing it for free does not equal dedication.
    Dedication isn't determined by whether or not you get paid to do the job. Dedication is determined by how willing you are to do the job, and how far you're willing to go to help your fellow man, show up for calls, and train to be the best you can be. Career or volunteer, it applies to both.
    Volunteer departments don't work everywhere. Career departments don't work everywhere. Combination departments don't work everywhere. All I care about is that whatever department fills the role in a certain part of the world is dedicated, professional, and willing to train hard enough to be the best they can be at the job. Not whine about, in the grand scheme of things, piddly little schitt like not being able to go on the grandma fell down, or guy who's been sick for 3 weeks with no change in condition and wants to go in right now call at 3am.
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

  15. #155
    Forum Member conrad427's Avatar
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    I couldn't agree more Chenzo. I was doing a poor job of playing sarcastic devil's advocate. When I hear firefighters whine about what is best for themselves and forget about what is best for the community I get mad as hell. I have dealt lately with firefighters who care more about power and ego than the community, and I am mostly at a loss, completely at a loss.
    Chenzo likes this.
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  16. #156
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Conrad427,

    You have it exactly right. Firefighters, whether volunteer or career should become firefighters with the thought in mind that they are there to serve the citizens and the community, not for the fire department to give them an ego boost, or to make them feel important. Once the mission gets lost in the self esteem gobbledegook then the drama starts and the FD gets tossed into turmoil.

    Frankly, LA's merry band of vollies sound like chidren who when they don't get their way throw a tantrum. The MISSION is no longer the priority in LA's mind, soothing ruffled feathers of vollies that don't get to do whatever they think they should be doing is. Great way to try to run an FD.
    Last edited by FyredUp; 08-10-2013 at 06:33 PM.
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  17. #157
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Conrad427,

    You have it exactly right. Fifrefighters, whether volunteer or career should become firefighters with the thought in mind that they are there to serve the citizens and the community, not for the fire department to give them an ego boost, or to make them feel important. Once the mission gets lost in the self esteem gobbledegook then the drama starts and the FD gets tossed into turmoil.

    Frankly, LA's merry band of vollies sound like chidren who when they don't get there way throw a tantrum. The MISSION is no longer the priority in LA's mind, soothing ruffled feathers of vollies that don't get to do whatever they think they should be doing is. Great way to try to run an FD.
    Which is exactly what I saw happen with the vollies in my old department. When it became apparent there duties were going to be relegated to their home areas.

    They were livid when the department changed policy so they were no longer going to be sent out of the county. And many of them quit.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  18. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Conrad427,

    You have it exactly right. Firefighters, whether volunteer or career should become firefighters with the thought in mind that they are there to serve the citizens and the community, not for the fire department to give them an ego boost, or to make them feel important. Once the mission gets lost in the self esteem gobbledegook then the drama starts and the FD gets tossed into turmoil.

    Frankly, LA's merry band of vollies sound like chidren who when they don't get their way throw a tantrum. The MISSION is no longer the priority in LA's mind, soothing ruffled feathers of vollies that don't get to do whatever they think they should be doing is. Great way to try to run an FD.
    And where did i say that anyone was throwing a tantrum?

    They are concerned that volunteers seem to be a little less needed on routine EMS calls since the addition of a second shift firefighter. they are concerned that the volunteers seem to have become alittle less critical to department operations. And they are concerned that the department may be going a route where volunteers will become less and less needed dispits the fact that they are still providing very effective response.

    All very legitimate concerns.

    The addition of the second shift member really added no significant response capabilities, especially during the evenings when the volunteers were providing more than adequate response. Yes, they have made some difference on the admin, maintainenece ans testing side, but have had little effect on the response side.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And where did i say that anyone was throwing a tantrum?

    They are concerned that volunteers seem to be a little less needed on routine EMS calls since the addition of a second shift firefighter. they are concerned that the volunteers seem to have become alittle less critical to department operations. And they are concerned that the department may be going a route where volunteers will become less and less needed dispits the fact that they are still providing very effective response.

    All very legitimate concerns.

    The addition of the second shift member really added no significant response capabilities, especially during the evenings when the volunteers were providing more than adequate response. Yes, they have made some difference on the admin, maintainenece ans testing side, but have had little effect on the response side.
    I was going to type a big long response but then I decieded not to waste my time on your dumbass. I have better things to do than worry about you being butt-hurt. My short answer is this. Someone in leadership (not you) saw that things (maintence and testing) was not being completed in a timely enough manner by the volunteers to meet the objectives and goals of the department and took corrective action by bringing on additional paid help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rm1524 View Post
    I was going to type a big long response but then I decieded not to waste my time on your dumbass. I have better things to do than worry about you being butt-hurt. My short answer is this. Someone in leadership (not you) saw that things (maintence and testing) was not being completed in a timely enough manner by the volunteers to meet the objectives and goals of the department and took corrective action by bringing on additional paid help.
    And I have no issues with that, except that it would have been much more effective if they had been brought in as daytime, not 24-hour shift, staff, which is where the admin, maintainence and testing needs are.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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