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Thread: Most Important FireFighting Question You want Answered: Please Suggest

  1. #161
    Forum Member conrad427's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And I have no issues with that, except that it would have been much more effective if they had been brought in as daytime, not 24-hour shift, staff, which is where the admin, maintainence and testing needs are.
    If the new staff is also going to help with ems and fire I don't see what the problem is.
    The fire service is about service to our fellow man.
    There is a trust that must not be broken and we are the keepers of that trust.
    Captain Dave LeBlanc


  2. #162
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And I have no issues with that, except that it would have been much more effective if they had been brought in as daytime, not 24-hour shift, staff, which is where the admin, maintainence and testing needs are.
    Golly LA, then it is too bad YOU aren't a command officer and get to make those decisions. I am sure you would be VERY popular among the paid guys if you were...Your comments about them just drip with disdain.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
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  3. #163
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    If the new staff is also going to help with ems and fire I don't see what the problem is.
    You just don't get it conrad427, the vollies got their feelings and self esteem bruised. They are no longer the top dog for those middle of the night pick grampa off the toilet, or haul gramma to the ER because she has been sick for a week and now wants to go in, or pick up the drunk who fell on the sidewalk type calls.

    Nevermind that in reality not a damn thing has changed. The vollies still first respond in, make an assessment, start treatment, and if not needed further, hand off care to the paid fire guys or the ambulance crew. That's sounds horrific to me!!

    What is the mission? To serve the public or build self esteem and make the vollies feel important?
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    If the new staff is also going to help with ems and fire I don't see what the problem is.
    The fact is that we have no issues with fire or EMS volunteer response during the evening. We average at least 22 volunteers for evening fire calls, as well as major MVAs, so evening manpower has never been an issue.

    We average about 12 volunteers for daytime fire calls, so supplemental paid staff is much more needed during the day as compared to the evening.

    The problem is that we had plenty of volunteers responding during the evening, and now fewer are responding as there is no longer the need for them on scene. Over time, this will affect their desire to stay on.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  5. #165
    Forum Member HuntPA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    We may just have to agree to disagree.
    Sorry, but I was on vacation all last week.

    I was referencing an earlier post about the community center. We do not have one. The church and the station serve those purposes. We do not have an actual community center. Meetings and gatherings are either held at one of those 2 places.

    I will go along with this. I will agree that we have different viewpoints and see things differently and therefore do not agree on this issue. Thank you for a good discussion and respectful argument. I appreciate when discussions can be held where there is honest discourse between 2 even if they don't agree and it doesn't go down the name calling avenue. Thank you.

  6. #166
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    The fact is that we have no issues with fire or EMS volunteer response during the evening. We average at least 22 volunteers for evening fire calls, as well as major MVAs, so evening manpower has never been an issue.

    We average about 12 volunteers for daytime fire calls, so supplemental paid staff is much more needed during the day as compared to the evening.

    The problem is that we had plenty of volunteers responding during the evening, and now fewer are responding as there is no longer the need for them on scene. Over time, this will affect their desire to stay on.
    How many volunteers were responding to a call? If 1 more paid person is responding...is that replacing 1, 2, 3, 4, etc volunteers on that call?

    And if that 1 more paid guy is causing more than 1 volunteer to not show up anymore....you have to ask yourself why 1 paid guy is equal to so many volunteers?
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    How many volunteers were responding to a call? If 1 more paid person is responding...is that replacing 1, 2, 3, 4, etc volunteers on that call?

    And if that 1 more paid guy is causing more than 1 volunteer to not show up anymore....you have to ask yourself why 1 paid guy is equal to so many volunteers?
    We were averaging 2-3 volunteers on the routine EMS "sick person" call. That is now down to one or maybe 2.

    We still get 3-5 volunteers on the SOBs, cardiac and trauma runs.

    And I have always wondered why one paid member does not equal one volunteer myself.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  8. #168
    Forum Member conrad427's Avatar
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    Not to take anything away from volunteers, I am one, but it has to come down to peace of mind as far as how many paid guys to how many volunteers.
    We have 23 volunteers in the department, that number seems needed to get four or five out the door for sure.
    If there is an Iron Maiden concert in town, or the world championships of punkin chunkin comes to town volunteer response might be compromised. If four paid guys are on duty, how many get to go to the Lower East Side roller derby tournament instead of a routine ems call?
    The fire service is about service to our fellow man.
    There is a trust that must not be broken and we are the keepers of that trust.
    Captain Dave LeBlanc

  9. #169
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    We were averaging 2-3 volunteers on the routine EMS "sick person" call. That is now down to one or maybe 2.

    We still get 3-5 volunteers on the SOBs, cardiac and trauma runs.
    So you went from 2-3 guys to 1-2? Plus the 1 paid guy.

    And this is demoralizing your volunteer department? Really?


    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And I have always wondered why one paid member does not equal one volunteer myself.
    Guess it reflects on the dedication of your volunteers.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    We were averaging 2-3 volunteers on the routine EMS "sick person" call. That is now down to one or maybe 2.

    We still get 3-5 volunteers on the SOBs, cardiac and trauma runs.

    And I have always wondered why one paid member does not equal one volunteer myself.
    Because the paid member (while on duty) will ALWAYS be able to respond with the appropriate apparatus for the call, in a timely manner. He will not be at the rodeo, home with his sick child while is wife is out of town etc. He will respond even if he is in a ****y mood, because his livelihood depends on it.
    ?

  11. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    We were averaging 2-3 volunteers on the routine EMS "sick person" call. That is now down to one or maybe 2.

    We still get 3-5 volunteers on the SOBs, cardiac and trauma runs.

    And I have always wondered why one paid member does not equal one volunteer myself.
    Because the paid member (while on duty) will ALWAYS be able to respond with the appropriate apparatus for the call, in a timely manner. He will not be at the rodeo, home with his sick child while is wife is out of town etc. He will respond even if he is in a ****y mood, because his livelihood depends on it.
    ?

  12. #172
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And I have always wondered why one paid member does not equal one volunteer myself.
    I can explain this for you, and frankly it is so obvious that I am surprised you need to ask.

    With volunteer/POC FFs there is no guarantee of a response by any set number. Well, unless you have assigned duty crews that are mandated during their duty time to respond. With paid career firefighters you will ALWAYS have at least the number of on duty firefighters responding. I know at one point the ISO rated one paid member on duty the equivalent of 4 volunteer/POC FFs.

    Look at your volunteer FD LA, you simply can't guarantee any number of responders on any given day. A paid FD ALWAYS guarantees a minimum number of responders EVERY DAY.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
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  13. #173
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    Yes, a guaranteed minimum number of members AND all arriving more quickly AND simultaneously AND with a rig full of equipment.

    Staffing and timing are two of the biggest factors in a successful outcome at just about any fire or emergency.

    Could any reasonable firefighter actually argue against that?

    PS Please don't tell us about station cleaning or maintenance or any other ancillary function. They are only support services to our mission.
    Last edited by captnjak; 08-18-2013 at 01:45 PM.

  14. #174
    Forum Member conrad427's Avatar
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    post deleted
    Last edited by conrad427; 08-18-2013 at 02:02 PM.
    The fire service is about service to our fellow man.
    There is a trust that must not be broken and we are the keepers of that trust.
    Captain Dave LeBlanc

  15. #175
    Forum Member conrad427's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    Not to take anything away from volunteers, I am one, but it has to come down to peace of mind as far as how many paid guys to how many volunteers.
    We have 23 volunteers in the department, that number seems needed to get four or five out the door for sure.
    If there is an Iron Maiden concert in town, or the world championships of punkin chunkin comes to town volunteer response might be compromised. If four paid guys are on duty, how many get to go to the Lower East Side roller derby tournament instead of a routine ems call?
    It might be especially hard to get a volunteer response if it were the playoffs. Just joking of course, I don't even know how to skate.
    The fire service is about service to our fellow man.
    There is a trust that must not be broken and we are the keepers of that trust.
    Captain Dave LeBlanc

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    ok since I started this thread I am telling everyone to shut up on PAID vs Volunteer and fundraising and what happens in LA specifically, if its not on the normal 1st post topic, just shut up and leave the thread. I am not usually mean but for about 8 pages of crap I have to be!.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fireman5214 View Post
    ok since I started this thread I am telling everyone to shut up on PAID vs Volunteer and fundraising and what happens in LA specifically, if its not on the normal 1st post topic, just shut up and leave the thread. I am not usually mean but for about 8 pages of crap I have to be!.
    aww buddy don't be a hater ---my butt hurts
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  18. #178
    Forum Member snowball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fireman5214 View Post
    ok since I started this thread I am telling everyone to shut up on PAID vs Volunteer and fundraising and what happens in LA specifically, if its not on the normal 1st post topic, just shut up and leave the thread. I am not usually mean but for about 8 pages of crap I have to be!.
    Now I'm offended! Why did you capitalize PAID in all caps and not VOLUNTEER?? They are just as important to their communities as PAID guys are!! Jeebus man, talk about starting a war!

    Actually, as far as paid vs. volly threads go, this one morphed into a rather civil discussion with nobody getting butthurt...until slackjaw.
    So in the immortal words of dear Sgt. Hulka, "Lighten up Francis"
    conrad427 likes this.
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  19. #179
    Forum Member Miller337's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fireman5214 View Post
    ok since I started this thread I am telling everyone to shut up on PAID vs Volunteer and fundraising and what happens in LA specifically, if its not on the normal 1st post topic, just shut up and leave the thread. I am not usually mean but for about 8 pages of crap I have to be!.
    You mean this thread has a specific topic? which I'm to understand is not what we have been discussing. So what is this topic? Why haven't you said something before this so we knew what that topic was? It seems rather illogical to become annoyed with us if you failed to divulge that information to us. You haven't attended any mandatory sensitivity training recently have you? You know what would be great, we should do a thread about really important firefighting questions. That would be really cool, What do you think? If you don't like that we could just do a thread about LaFire like all the other threads, its up to you bro you decide man.

  20. #180
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fireman5214 View Post
    ok since I started this thread I am telling everyone to shut up on PAID vs Volunteer and fundraising and what happens in LA specifically, if its not on the normal 1st post topic, just shut up and leave the thread. I am not usually mean but for about 8 pages of crap I have to be!.
    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

    Oh wait, were you trying to be all serious?

    If so...BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA! Even more!!
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

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