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    Default Question about OT pay

    Are hours over 40 hours per week paid at overtime?

    Austin Fire Dept is scheduled an average of 53 hours per week, so Im wondering if 41-53 would be paid 1.5x

    Im also wondering if that is already built into their yearly salary schedule already stated of $4100 per month.

    Their CB agreement is here. Page 21. http://www.iafflocal975.org/items/FI...Appendices.pdf

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    More than likely not. Because of FLSA rules and their shift schedule, they are most likely paid at a 54 hour work week. Anything above that would be paid out at their OT rate be it 1.5, 1/2 time or whatever they are paid at. I didn't read their MOU so I'm not sure how they are compensated. I'm sure it's on line somewhere.

    We work a 56 hour week in a 24 day FLSA cycle. If you work over that you will be paid out at 1.5 times your salary for the hours that you worked. However if you use a sick leave or a shift trade in that cycle, and you work over, you will be paid out at straight time rate. I'm not a fan of the shift trade penalty because the department is basically getting a guy for free, and you will eventually pay that day back for free, so it is zero cost to the city.

    Clear as mud?
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    Thank you very much

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    Quote Originally Posted by eh33 View Post
    Are hours over 40 hours per week paid at overtime?
    Some are and some aren't.

    Austin Fire Dept is scheduled an average of 53 hours per week, so Im wondering if 41-53 would be paid 1.5x
    From what I could tell looking at their CBA briefly, they work a 24 on/48 off schedule with Kelly Days (scheduled days off) which works out to the average 53 hours per week. The city is paying them based on the 7(k) exemption in the FLSA.

    What this means is that payment at overtime rate for regular scheduled hours is based off a specific threshold defined in the FLSA. If I'm not mistaken, that threshold is 212 work hours in a 28-day work cycle. Hours worked in excess of 212 in the 28-day work cycle have to be paid at overtime rate. Anything under that are straight time. So, in all likelihood with a 53-hour average work week, they are not paid at overtime rate for any of their regular work days.

    Now, the employer is not obligated to pay the hours between 40 and 56 at straight time. The employer and union could negotiate a lower threshold for overtime below that required under FLSA if they wanted to.

    Im also wondering if that is already built into their yearly salary schedule already stated of $4100 per month.
    It probably is as explained above.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    S
    From what I could tell looking at their CBA briefly, they work a 24 on/48 off schedule with Kelly Days (scheduled days off) which works out to the average 53 hours per week. The city is paying them based on the 7(k) exemption in the FLSA.
    The Kelly day schedule is somewhere less than 53 hrs/week (depending on freq of the Kelly), as we work the 24/48 without Kelly Days and are paid 53 hours straight and 1.5 x for the last 3 and any above. Unlike Snowball we're not penalized for any trades, but using sick leave or vacation time causes us to lose the extra 1.5 hrs of pay due to FLSA, but even OT hours in they same period are paid at the full OT rate.
    Last edited by RFDACM02; 08-06-2013 at 11:40 AM. Reason: keyboard caused misspelled words

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    We work a 48/96 straight. No kelley days. There are exceptions to the shift trade penalty such as being held mandatory, you will receive OT pay, or holding over waiting for relief. One good thing is that you will receive OT pay after you have fulfilled your 56 hr work week no matter where it falls in the FLSA cycle. I was browsing through the link to Austin's CBA and it looked like a pretty good package. Get rid of the humidity and it would be a nice place to work.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    The Kelly day schedule is somewhere less than 53 hrs/week (depending on freq of the Kelly), as we work the 24/48 without Kelly Days and are paid 53 hours straight and 1.5 x for the last 3 and any above. Unlike Snowball we're not penalized for any trades, but using sick leave or vacation time causes us to lose the extra 1.5 hrs of pay due to FLSA, but even OT hours in they same period are paid at the full OT rate.
    We don't lose OT for using S/L or vac., but if we call in the day before, the day of, or the day after a holiday, we lose 8 hours of pay. We are not paid OT for holidays, but we do get 8 hrs of pay for every government holiday if we don't call off. We don't get penalized for trades either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    [W]e...are paid 53 hours straight and 1.5 x for the last 3 and any above.
    Same here. We automatically get 3 hours of OT on two out of every three paychecks. The use of sick leave, annual leave, trades, etc does not effect the automatic overtime.

    FWIW, right-to-work state, so these are county rules, not part of a contract.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    Same here. We automatically get 3 hours of OT on two out of every three paychecks. The use of sick leave, annual leave, trades, etc does not effect the automatic overtime.

    FWIW, right-to-work state, so these are county rules, not part of a contract.
    We've got it good I guess, we''re paid the same average wage based on a 56 hour week, with the FLSA in every paycheck except when you've used sick leave or vacation time. I've never received anything less than my base wage minus the FLSA. As for recognized holidays, all personnel across all shifts are given 18 hrs of straight pay no matter what on duty or off for any reason. I think the on or off duty is because all other city employees get the day off with pay, so we get something but not quite our full days wage.

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    RFD, doesn't sound like we're too far off. All 56-hour employees leave accrual rates are based on 40-hour employees with a 1.4x multiplier. Interestingly, since captains and above are exempt employees, they earn 9 hours of comp time on each paycheck that the FF's and LT's earn their automatic OT on.
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    We are also paid on weekly averages meaning that my a standard pay check for me is the same every time. There are firefighters in nearby cities that work the same schedule, but get paid (4), (5), and (6) day checks depending on their actual work schedule.

    On a side note, how many of you are eligible to work overtime on vacation days? We are, but other cities around us won't allow it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    On a side note, how many of you are eligible to work overtime on vacation days? We are, but other cities around us won't allow it.
    Are you saying that you can be scheduled off for vacation on a work day, but still get hired back on OT? No chance of that here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    We are also paid on weekly averages meaning that my a standard pay check for me is the same every time. There are firefighters in nearby cities that work the same schedule, but get paid (4), (5), and (6) day checks depending on their actual work schedule.

    On a side note, how many of you are eligible to work overtime on vacation days? We are, but other cities around us won't allow it.
    It's allowed here. Partly because a vacation period as defined by the contract is from the time you leave duty until the time you resume. If one takes a single tour off for whatever reason it doesn't preclude coverage on other shifts. The fact that you can take the day and then work your same shift would technically be allowed, but has not happened for scheduled OT to my knowledge, but recall of personnel has caused the "same" unscheduled OT while on vacation. If your on vacation days you are eligible if called for OT, but cannot be forced. Due to the number of guys taking "stay-cations" this has the potential to happen pretty often.
    Last edited by RFDACM02; 08-07-2013 at 05:21 PM. Reason: keyboard caused misspelled words

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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    We are also paid on weekly averages meaning that my a standard pay check for me is the same every time. There are firefighters in nearby cities that work the same schedule, but get paid (4), (5), and (6) day checks depending on their actual work schedule.

    On a side note, how many of you are eligible to work overtime on vacation days? We are, but other cities around us won't allow it.
    We can't work if we're on vacation, (it would probably make the staffing program crash....) but we can work Kelly Day overtime.

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    Wow, I guess I should consider myself lucky...we work 24/48 (no Kelly Day) and are on a 40 hour/week schedule.

    Week 1 = 8 guaranteed hours OT
    Week 2 = 32 guaranteed hours OT

    Due to our lack of Paramedics there's almost unlimited overtime for those of us who are FF/PMs. My last check I worked a 48On/24Off the entire pay period and ended up with 160 hours of OT.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    We are also paid on weekly averages meaning that my a standard pay check for me is the same every time. There are firefighters in nearby cities that work the same schedule, but get paid (4), (5), and (6) day checks depending on their actual work schedule.

    On a side note, how many of you are eligible to work overtime on vacation days? We are, but other cities around us won't allow it.
    We are allowed OT during vacation. We are also allowed to take a holiday and put ourselves on the hiring list, or work your own unscheduled holiday at OT rate. You cannot shift trade and put yourself on the hiring list.

    We use Telestaff, anybody else use it? What do you think of it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATFDFF View Post
    Wow, I guess I should consider myself lucky...we work 24/48 (no Kelly Day) and are on a 40 hour/week schedule.

    Week 1 = 8 guaranteed hours OT
    Week 2 = 32 guaranteed hours OT

    Due to our lack of Paramedics there's almost unlimited overtime for those of us who are FF/PMs. My last check I worked a 48On/24Off the entire pay period and ended up with 160 hours of OT.
    Holy balls, I just had to read this out loud to all of the members of my shift. Unreal.

    We're limited to working 36 hours straight unless there are some really unusual circumstances.

    As for Telestaff, we used to use it, but then we had our county's IT folks (who are amazing at what they can do) develop a staffing & overtime program that does some of the same things as Telestaff, but so much more as well. I know there are a lot of places that live and die by Telestaff, but we found that our system meets our needs better.

    Along these same lines, how much annual and sick leave do you all accrue per pay? With my time in grade, I get 12.92 hours of AL per pay, 6 hours of SL, and 9 hours of comp leave (no overtime for me). One nice perk we have is that we can take 24 hours of personal sick leave or family sick leave, but we're only charged for 12.
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    Box, are you Stafford Co?
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    Nope, although I saw the headlines and know why you ask. I'm a couple of countys south of there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    Nope, although I saw the headlines and know why you ask. I'm a couple of countys south of there.
    Haha! Yeah, he tried hangin gangsta style and I think it was a bit much for the guy
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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    On a side note, how many of you are eligible to work overtime on vacation days? We are, but other cities around us won't allow it.
    We are not eligible to work scheduled OT on our normal work day when "on vacation". However, we can work scheduled OT on the other 3 shifts when "on vacation".

    As a small department, we typically do a department wide callback for most working fires. When that happens, a member can respond to the fire and be paid at the OT rate even when the fire is on their own shift regardless of their "work status" that day unless they are off on sick leave or off due to a work-related injury.

    BoxAlarm187
    Along these same lines, how much annual and sick leave do you all accrue per pay? With my time in grade, I get 12.92 hours of AL per pay, 6 hours of SL, and 9 hours of comp leave (no overtime for me).
    Our time is awarded on an annual basis. At the start of each year, we get 5 sick days, 5 personal days and however many vacation days you are entitled to based on your years of service. We can carry over unused sick days up to a limit of 25. At that point, any unused sick days at the end of the year above 25 are bought back at 75%. Unused personal days are bought back at the end of the year at 100%. The only time we can buy back unused vacation days is when you separate service, typically at retirement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    Are you saying that you can be scheduled off for vacation on a work day, but still get hired back on OT? No chance of that here.
    Yes exactly. I can be off on a vacation day and work my own assignment if I am up on the OT callback list. Basically - if off on vacation I am eligible for callback same as being off on a regular off day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    Along these same lines, how much annual and sick leave do you all accrue per pay? With my time in grade, I get 12.92 hours of AL per pay, 6 hours of SL, and 9 hours of comp leave (no overtime for me). One nice perk we have is that we can take 24 hours of personal sick leave or family sick leave, but we're only charged for 12.
    I get 14 vacation days a year, 4 bonus days that I can sell back to the City instead of using, and earn 30 sick hours per month - no comp time.
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    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    I get 14 vacation days a year, 4 bonus days that I can sell back to the City instead of using, and earn 30 sick hours per month - no comp time.
    We get 156 hrs of holiday leave per fiscal year that is accrued at 13 hrs per month. If you don't burn any, you get that 13 hrs paid out in straight time. We can convert our own OT to comp time up to 108 hrs. You can cash in 60 hrs of comp that will be paid out as straight time.
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    We work a 24/48 on a 53 hr. week, with a 28-day cycle. We don't do traditional Kelly Days. We have every 9th shift as a paid day off, called a liberty day. If your liberty day falls on the first day of the 28 day cycle, it will also fall on the last day of the cycle, and it will be cancelled. You will, however, get first priority on using annual leave for that cancelled liberty day.

    We don't do overtime. If we did, captains and above (we don't have lieutenants) are overtime exempt. They still get liberty days, but the county could decide not to at any point. What they do, though, is sometimes bank their liberty days, or turn them into comp time. Since they're not owed a liberty day to prevent overtime, it's actually generous of the county to give them to them. Likewise, even if we use all the leave in the world, we still get our liberty day.

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