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Thread: NFPA Approved/Compliant Helmet Band

  1. #21
    Forum Member
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    Man, how I do love schooling you. Closed cabs are nothing new, Detroit, to name one, had them back in the 1930's. So they were far ahead of the NFPA with the advent of closed cabs. Tell me how we as firefighters have brought the miriad of standards on ourselves related to fire apparatus...Because there are far more than just involving the cab design.

    But they were not widely used until it was mandated. They were far more widely used in Europe light years before they were mandated in the US.


    Members riding unbuckled. Speed. Intersection management. Not following procedures.

    So tell me which one of those issues is addressed by having a fully enclosed cab? Because other than the risk of being thrown from the vehicle in a canopy cab if you aren't buckled, there is little difference in not being buckled in the back of an enclosed cab.

    I was referring to seat belt sensors, speed limiters and transmission lock out devices. And yes, all of that has been brought on by drivers driving too fast and members not buckling up.

    Do I like the fact that a $5 computer chip can render a $1.1M aerial into a paperweight? No, but we have brought it on ourselves.


    Other than the arbitrary speed limits on tankers what has the NFPA done about this? How about addressing the nonsensical need to run tenders red lights and sirens when we have tenders sitting waiting to dump? How about the insanity of running ALL rigs red lights and sirens to an alarm call? Send them as usual but only have the closest rig respond hot. How about NATIONAL MANDATORY TRAINING for apparatus operators?

    We agree on running tankers lights and sirens. I fully agree on running the majority of fire apparatus to alarms cold. I advocate for wires down, transformer fires and other such calls to be handled cold by all responding apparatus.

    And I agree that apparatus operators should be trained, though not through a national standard.


    All of the departments I am on train drivers to stop at red lights or stop signs before proceeding and to enter other intersections with your foot covering the brake pedal. We will NOT stop at green lights no matter how much you advocate that, it does nothing but confuse other drivers. What stance has the NFPA taken on this?

    Again, we agree on everything except the red lights. NFPA does state that all drivers should have Driver/Operator.

    Procedures is a local issue.

    Agreed but we have seen countless incidents where procedures were ignored and LODDs have resulted.

    Procedures need to be enforced through dismissals, suspensions and other significant punishments rather than being ignored, as they are in many places, or slaps on the wrist.


    Define comfortable...If it was a properly maintained, fully functional Scott IIa, then sure I would use it with confidence if that was what was available. The new packs do have many improvements, integrated pass, HUD, and many more. They are also lighter and more comfortable to wear. But technology brings issues the old IIa never had, such as batteries, wiring, or wireless interfaces, and they all can bring problems. Funny thing is with all the technology and advances you praise in SCBA everyone that I am aware of will function when all the technology takes a crap. So essentially you would have a modern Scott IIa.

    But you agree that the newer packs are safer?
    Train to fight the fires you fight.


  2. #22
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Man, how I do love schooling you. Closed cabs are nothing new, Detroit, to name one, had them back in the 1930's. So they were far ahead of the NFPA with the advent of closed cabs. Tell me how we as firefighters have brought the miriad of standards on ourselves related to fire apparatus...Because there are far more than just involving the cab design.

    But they were not widely used until it was mandated. They were far more widely used in Europe light years before they were mandated in the US.


    Not the point at all. The fact is MANY FDs have led the way on safety items, closed cabs of apparatus being one, long before any regulatory agency ever even noticed the problem.

    Members riding unbuckled. Speed. Intersection management. Not following procedures.

    So tell me which one of those issues is addressed by having a fully enclosed cab? Because other than the risk of being thrown from the vehicle in a canopy cab if you aren't buckled, there is little difference in not being buckled in the back of an enclosed cab.


    I was referring to seat belt sensors, speed limiters and transmission lock out devices. And yes, all of that has been brought on by drivers driving too fast and members not buckling up.

    Do I like the fact that a $5 computer chip can render a $1.1M aerial into a paperweight? No, but we have brought it on ourselves.


    Yeah it makes complete sense that fire apparatus has gotten so technical, electrical and computer operated that they can be rendered completely useless due to a sensor error or malfunction. I remember when pressure governors first hit the market and were failing turning $350K (Prices then) engines into taxi cabs because they wouldn't throttle up. Which brought about some FDs have redundant vernier throttles installed to offer at least basic pump operations if a failure occurred.

    Other than the arbitrary speed limits on tankers what has the NFPA done about this? How about addressing the nonsensical need to run tenders red lights and sirens when we have tenders sitting waiting to dump? How about the insanity of running ALL rigs red lights and sirens to an alarm call? Send them as usual but only have the closest rig respond hot. How about NATIONAL MANDATORY TRAINING for apparatus operators?

    We agree on running tankers lights and sirens. I fully agree on running the majority of fire apparatus to alarms cold. I advocate for wires down, transformer fires and other such calls to be handled cold by all responding apparatus.

    And I agree that apparatus operators should be trained, though not through a national standard.


    Why NOT a national standard? What is different about driving and pumping in Bossier Parrish than anywhere else? If there are differences then you teach them that locally after they pass the class.

    All of the departments I am on train drivers to stop at red lights or stop signs before proceeding and to enter other intersections with your foot covering the brake pedal. We will NOT stop at green lights no matter how much you advocate that, it does nothing but confuse other drivers. What stance has the NFPA taken on this?

    Again, we agree on everything except the red lights. NFPA does state that all drivers should have Driver/Operator.

    You don't stop at red lights?

    Procedures is a local issue.

    Agreed but we have seen countless incidents where procedures were ignored and LODDs have resulted.

    Then the local leadership is weak and failed to discipline people who violate local procedures. It is THAT simple.

    Procedures need to be enforced through dismissals, suspensions and other significant punishments rather than being ignored, as they are in many places, or slaps on the wrist.


    We agree.

    Define comfortable...If it was a properly maintained, fully functional Scott IIa, then sure I would use it with confidence if that was what was available. The new packs do have many improvements, integrated pass, HUD, and many more. They are also lighter and more comfortable to wear. But technology brings issues the old IIa never had, such as batteries, wiring, or wireless interfaces, and they all can bring problems. Funny thing is with all the technology and advances you praise in SCBA everyone that I am aware of will function when all the technology takes a crap. So essentially you would have a modern Scott IIa.

    But you agree that the newer packs are safer?

    In what way? They flow better and they make it virtually impossible to ignore you are running out of air. But the basic working of an air pack is the same as ever, get breathable, safe, air to the face piece.
    We agree on some things, but like usual not all.
    “The person who risks nothing, does nothing, has nothing, is nothing, and becomes nothing. He may avoid suffering and sorrow, but he simply cannot learn and feel and change and grow and love and live.” Leo F. Buscaglia

    This place gets weirder and weirder every day...

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