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Thread: Ferrara MVP

  1. #21
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    Dude you need to chill out, you're starting to be "that angry guy" and LA is starting to have more thoughtful posts, just sayin'.

    My post may not have been exactly what you were asking for. Sorry, you don't like it don't post in an open forum, many of us hear have learned a lot from posts that are not specific to the OP. Maybe BoxAlarm187 was more direct, but basically asked the question I was getting at: what is it about the MVP? Sorry you got some sort of pent up angst that makes you defense, but I doubt anyone here really has a vested interest in your final purchase, but in fact learn a thing or two from hearing about how others work through the purchase process. The fact is, given your history and posts here, I was interested in how you came to post this specific a question vs. the other options I know you're well versed in.

    Just because your the OP, doesn't mean it's all about you, if that was the case, most of the threads here would be pretty damn short.
    First of all, the post you responded to wasn't even addressing you, it was addressing ffp20. Who seems to believe I have a duty to ONLY look at trucks manufactured in Wisconsin. Sorry Wrong.

    Second of all, I asked a specific question, about a specific piece of apparatus, and instead of my question being answered, other than by LA, I have had to counter challenges as to why we are even looking at it.

    Thirdly, maybe I am sounding angry but so many of you rag on anyone, me included, that have gone off on tangents on LA, yet here I ask a straight forward qustion, that there is no way to misconsture, and instead of getting my question answered I am having to defend why I even asked.

    Fourthly, I have no pent up angst about anything, but when I am told that I shouldn't be looking outside of my state because fire trucks are built here, by someone in NY that probably runs a Pierce or a Seagrave Engine, not made in NY by the way, it tends to **** me off a bit. Does he know my department? Does he know our needs? Does he know whether or not we have done research in Wisconsin already? No, he doesn't. As I stated very early on I am no novice to this process but I thought I could get some user experience to help guide us from members here.

    Why I specifically asked about the MVP: It is an interesting rig with lots of compartment space and different and unique equipment storage ideas. The rig we looked at at RRI was around $440K, the last rescue engine my career FD bought was just shy of $600K, and was built in Wisconsin. It has no more capabilities than the MVP we looked at at FRI other than a cascade system that we don't need because our heavy rescue already has one. Was I specifically saying that we were going to buy an MVP? Nope. The idea of having a demo come out has been discussed. If those running them already had problems, concerns, or good things to say, I wanted to hear them. The thing about firefighters and apparatus is they will almost always tell you the truth, or their version of the truth.
    Last edited by FyredUp; 10-05-2013 at 12:36 AM.
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  2. #22
    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    Sorry, you don't like it don't post in an open forum, many of us hear have learned a lot from posts that are not specific to the OP. Maybe BoxAlarm187 was more direct, but basically asked the question I was getting at: what is it about the MVP?
    Exactly, no conjecture or anything inferred by my question.

    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    ...Thirdly, maybe I am sounding angry but so many of you rag on anyone, me included, that have gone off on tangents on LA, yet here I ask a straight forward qustion, that there is no way to misconsture, and instead of getting my question answered I am having to defend why I even asked.
    I too wondered why you went off on the guy like he'd just insulted your mother. If you don't like what he has to say, ignore him or just tell him you've already thought about other manufacturers.

    Why I specifically asked about the MVP: It is an interesting rig with lots of compartment space and different and unique equipment storage ideas. The rig we looked at at RRI was around $440K, the last rescue engine my career FD bought was just shy of $600K, and was built in Wisconsin. It has no more capabilities than the MVP we looked at at FRI other than a cascade system that we don't need because our heavy rescue already has one.
    This is what I was getting at. I've looked at the MVP at all of the major trade shows, and I do think it's an interesting approach to a rescue pumper. It does have the widest body of any of the manufacturers, but on the flip side, it was specifically designed to be a rescue pumper, not just a pumper with a rescue-style body on it. It's also got the option of PTO or t-case pump (QMAX), whereas the other manufacturers generally give you a REPTO or PTO option.

    I believe that they're advertising them now for about $385k and change (sans equipment, of course). Not a bad deal for a powerful medium-block and a 3/16" extruded body.

    At the risk of starting something OT, have you seen the electronic pump panel on the Toyne rescue pumper demo that stows away when it's not needed? Pretty slick.
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  3. #23
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    Exactly, no conjecture or anything inferred by my question.

    Indeed and again why I responded to ffp20 like I did and not you.

    I too wondered why you went off on the guy like he'd just insulted your mother. If you don't like what he has to say, ignore him or just tell him you've already thought about other manufacturers.

    Because I get dang tired of being scolded and told what an azzhole I am for going off on tangents on LA only to have this guy post the crap he did like I am some newbie to speccing a truck. Yes, it pi ss ed me off.

    This is what I was getting at. I've looked at the MVP at all of the major trade shows, and I do think it's an interesting approach to a rescue pumper. It does have the widest body of any of the manufacturers, but on the flip side, it was specifically designed to be a rescue pumper, not just a pumper with a rescue-style body on it. It's also got the option of PTO or t-case pump (QMAX), whereas the other manufacturers generally give you a REPTO or PTO option.

    I am relatively sure we would eliminate the pump and roll option as unnecessary. We want to lighten the load on our F550 midi pumper and make the first out rig more capable.

    I believe that they're advertising them now for about $385k and change (sans equipment, of course). Not a bad deal for a powerful medium-block and a 3/16" extruded body.

    Yes, they are. And yes, it seems to be a good deal.

    At the risk of starting something OT, have you seen the electronic pump panel on the Toyne rescue pumper demo that stows away when it's not needed? Pretty slick.

    No I haven't. We did look at Toyne at FRI and liked what they had too.
    So there it is in a nutshell. We are exploring options to get the biggest bang for our buck.
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  4. #24
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvfd5116 View Post
    We have one. It works just like we wanted/needed it to. We don't have the luxury of having a dedicated Rescue, so this fit the bill. Plenty of space for all our extrication (front bumper), struts, air bags, chains, etc. We have a full compartment dedicated to EMS, we are ALS non-transport.

    We have had a couple bugs that were quickly taken care of by Ferrara. Our rep is from Southern Indiana, and they rock. We can call at 0800, and have a plan or a solution usually within the same day. Our setup is 2000 gpm Hale Q-Max/500 tank. 40 gallon foam cell to the 3 crosslays. Sabremaster deck gun w/30' wired tether. Akron Electronic controls, drives quiet, pumps just as quiet.

    We have air ride suspension, and rides pretty damn good. Our truck is about 9" longer than we wanted due to the EPA junk. We just missed the pre-emission engine.

    Fact is, we love it. We plan to purchase another one in the future. The only thing we would change is minor layout issues.
    Thanks for you input. I do appreciate it.
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    First of all, the post you responded to wasn't even addressing you, it was addressing ffp20. Who seems to believe I have a duty to ONLY look at trucks manufactured in Wisconsin. Sorry Wrong. OK, maybe I saw your response as a wider brush, still it seems a little over the top for what was posted.

    Second of all, I asked a specific question, about a specific piece of apparatus, and instead of my question being answered, other than by LA, I have had to counter challenges as to why we are even looking at it. Maybe these questions are not challenges, but in fact people interested in what brought the question on. This forum area has been devoid of decent new apparatus idea/threads for quite a while.

    Thirdly, maybe I am sounding angry but so many of you rag on anyone, me included, that have gone off on tangents on LA, yet here I ask a straight forward qustion, that there is no way to misconsture, and instead of getting my question answered I am having to defend why I even asked. Sorry I still fail to see any attack?

    Fourthly, I have no pent up angst about anything, but when I am told that I shouldn't be looking outside of my state because fire trucks are built here, by someone in NY that probably runs a Pierce or a Seagrave Engine, not made in NY by the way, it tends to **** me off a bit. Does he know my department? Does he know our needs? Does he know whether or not we have done research in Wisconsin already? No, he doesn't. As I stated very early on I am no novice to this process but I thought I could get some user experience to help guide us from members here. Worthy goal, possibly you had a naive moment thinking you'd getting just what you wanted and nothing more here on FH.com?

    Why I specifically asked about the MVP: It is an interesting rig with lots of compartment space and different and unique equipment storage ideas. The rig we looked at at RRI was around $440K, the last rescue engine my career FD bought was just shy of $600K, and was built in Wisconsin. It has no more capabilities than the MVP we looked at at FRI other than a cascade system that we don't need because our heavy rescue already has one. Was I specifically saying that we were going to buy an MVP? Nope. The idea of having a demo come out has been discussed. If those running them already had problems, concerns, or good things to say, I wanted to hear them. The thing about firefighters and apparatus is they will almost always tell you the truth, or their version of the truth. see below
    Suffice it to say that your last paragraph here would have answered many questions earlier with less "stress".

    In our case in '07-09 we purpose design/built our rescue pumper to incorporate many of the features and functions that the MVP (et als) are offering in a "stock" truck program. At the time, there were far fewer "program" rescue pumpers so we ended up having to really start from the ground up (copying hundreds of previously built apparatus from all over and from numerous builders). If we were to buy another today we'd likely find a one of these stock trucks that could fit the bill with far less customization and maybe at a lesser price (for the current pricing). You last sentence is really spot on, we found that a 5 day road trip stopping in and looking at similar apparatus revealed a lot of "truths" that impacted our decisions as well as fed the design. And it does pay to talk to the guys who operate the apparatus as opposed to the guy who bought it and is still "justifying his reasons". We found a wide margin in customer satisfaction from user to chief!
    Last edited by RFDACM02; 10-05-2013 at 05:14 PM.

  6. #26
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    And yet, even when I explained myself I have to defend my explanation against your seeming to tell me I came on too hard, am wrong in my thinking, and should have said in my first post why I was asking about the MVP. WHY? It seems so much gets bogged down around here because people can't just answer the question asked. Geezus the only thing that would have made this more stupidly funny is if the whole kool aid drinking Pierce crowd would have jumped on me for the blasphemy of not saying robotically "Pierce is the light and the way, let no graven images of fire trucks stand before thee..."

    Deleted after I thought about it awile.


    My #1 POC FD specced and purchased a rescue pumper in 2005 it has full height and full depth compartments on both sides and a HUGE rear compartment. It has no coffin compartments. It has 2 crosslay front preconnects as well as mid-ship crosslays, 2000 gpm pump, foam, 1000 gallons of water, 10Kw generator, 5 1500 watt lights, 6 man custom cab with ems compartment. We spent quite a bit of time researching what we wanted, looked at demos, went to trade shows, and designed what we wanted. My #2 POC FD has an apparatus committee, with lots of ideas, research has and is being done, we will see demos, and a few of us have been to trade shows. To limit yourself to one manufacturer limits your ability to see how much has changed and what is already out there.
    Last edited by FyredUp; 10-07-2013 at 12:26 AM.
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  7. #27
    MembersZone Subscriber jfTL41's Avatar
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    There are more than a few apparatus builders that will build what you want/need... Determine what your wants and needs are and write a specification for the truck that suits your departments needs now and in the future. Once its there you're stuck with it, take your time and do it right, do not gear your apparatus towards a vendor, let them build your truck not sell you theirs.
    One of the posters above suggested contacting current users, do this on your own, not thru a dealer or salesman, do some legwork, the dealer or salesman will only put you in touch with the people they want you speaking to, that is pointless.

  8. #28
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfTL41 View Post
    There are more than a few apparatus builders that will build what you want/need... Determine what your wants and needs are and write a specification for the truck that suits your departments needs now and in the future. Once its there you're stuck with it, take your time and do it right, do not gear your apparatus towards a vendor, let them build your truck not sell you theirs.
    One of the posters above suggested contacting current users, do this on your own, not thru a dealer or salesman, do some legwork, the dealer or salesman will only put you in touch with the people they want you speaking to, that is pointless.
    I wanted info from current users and that is why I posted the original question. Believe me this is not my first time being involved in writing specs and designing a rig for 1 of the FDs I am on. I was on the apparatus committee at my career FD, same with at my #1 POC FD,and now with my #2 POC FD. Salesmen in my mind are there to look at your spec, tell you if they can do what you want, or if they can't and why. They can offer suggestions but in the end the committee makes the ultimate final decision on what to buy.

    My #1 POC FD had demos in from several manufacturers. We wanted to see them for ideas we hadn't thought of and to see the quality of the build. It is amazing the junk being built by some companies.
    Last edited by FyredUp; 10-11-2013 at 08:07 AM.
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  9. #29
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Thanks to everyone for your comments. We have in no way made our mind up on what we want to buy. We are still in the exploration stage with opinions going far and wide. The engine we would be replacing is a Custom Fire Peterbilt with a command cab and inside pump panel. Some would like something similar to that, many committee members want a side mount pump panel, a custom cab, and a rescue engine style body. So there is still much work to be done.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

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