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Thread: Ferrara MVP

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    Default Ferrara MVP

    Is anybody out there running one of these? It has come up as a possibility for my #2 POC FD.

    PLEASE don't hit me with the "I hate Ferrara, they are junk" BS. If you don't run an MVP I don't care about your personal feelings toward Ferrara.
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    We are looking very, very closely at the MVP as a replacement for our current heavy rescue, which is scheduled to be replaced next year.

    We currently run an all Ferrera fleet (9 engines, a tanker and a heavy rescue) and have no significant issues with their performance or durability.

    Obviously we will lose compartment space as with a water tank, we will lose the center area. The question that we are struggling with is exactly how much can we afford to lose and still carry of all our cribbing, airbags, struts, technical rescue gear and the air cart. We will likely also lose the space for the Cascade system, which will require that we either mount it on a service vehicle or a trailer.

    Right now it looks like we would take a 30% or so hit in terms of compartment space compared to our current vehicle.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 10-02-2013 at 06:35 PM.
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    Is it just me or does it seem a lot of these are popping up and are mostly getting attention due to decent marketing. I mean, can't any decent builder do the same thing using an all electronic pump panel? Not trying to steer you in any way, just seeing a few very similar standard "customs" that would seem to be in any custom builders grasp. Ferrera MVP, E-One Emax, KME Pro, even the PUC all are opening up more compartment space by reducing the pumphouse size and panel space. They're all standardizing what some used to have custom built. That being said, a "stock" or fleet unit that meets your needs tends to be more budget friendly that starting from the ground up.

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    Try contacting any of the fire department listed on the Ferrara web site, that have taken delivery of this type of apparatus. There are some in production photos on the web site, the rig looks like it can carry more equipment than a regular rescue pumper!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodbridge View Post
    Try contacting any of the fire department listed on the Ferrara web site, that have taken delivery of this type of apparatus. There are some in production photos on the web site, the rig looks like it can carry more equipment than a regular rescue pumper!
    The amount of equipment that it carries is significant, and yes, it is more than a typical rescue pumper.

    That being said, for us, it would be a decrease in compartment space from a dedicated rescue truck, which is what we run now, which is our quandary. We would not be able to install a cascade, which is currently on our rescue, and likely would not be able to carry some of foam, haz-mat and structural support equipment that we currently have space for on the dedicated rescue.

    On the flip side, it would give us firefighting capability on the rescue, which may allow us to not have to roll an engine on some or all of our MVC's depending on how it is dispatched, and would give us a second pumper at our Central Station, though with a smaller water tank than our standard 1250g and a smaller hose bed.
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    We would be replacing an engine and the thought process is to carry some rescue equipment on it that we have on an F-550 midi pumper to lighten that rigs load. We would also carry some truck equipment on this rig too. We have a dedicated rescue with a cascade and that would remain in service.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    We would be replacing an engine and the thought process is to carry some rescue equipment on it that we have on an F-550 midi pumper to lighten that rigs load. We would also carry some truck equipment on this rig too. We have a dedicated rescue with a cascade and that would remain in service.
    What size water tank would you want? As I understand it, 500g is pretty much the standard, though our rep said they could do a 750g but it would significantly impact the already very limited hose bed size.

    It sounds like your department would be a good fit for it - Basically an engine with additional compartment space to carry some rescue stuff and some truck stuff. One of the biggest issues i see with the truck as an engine is the very limited hose bed especially if you are used to carrying multiple 2.5" attack lines and more than 500-600' of LDH.

    Another issue with your department, being rural, is the inability to carry hard suction. I guess you could mount in under the hose bed, but again, that would reduce the already limited hose bed size.

    As an engine, I guess I'm not sold on the concept. As a rescue with some engine company capabilities ... Maybe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    Is it just me or does it seem a lot of these are popping up and are mostly getting attention due to decent marketing. I mean, can't any decent builder do the same thing using an all electronic pump panel? Not trying to steer you in any way, just seeing a few very similar standard "customs" that would seem to be in any custom builders grasp. Ferrera MVP, E-One Emax, KME Pro, even the PUC all are opening up more compartment space by reducing the pumphouse size and panel space. They're all standardizing what some used to have custom built. That being said, a "stock" or fleet unit that meets your needs tends to be more budget friendly that starting from the ground up.
    How true...many manufactures do similar stuff. Some even have flashier marketing than others. The guy is from wisconsin....theres plenty of builders up his way who can and do build similar stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    What size water tank would you want? As I understand it, 500g is pretty much the standard, though our rep said they could do a 750g but it would significantly impact the already very limited hose bed size.

    A 1000 gallon water tank is available. Again we took a look at one of these at FRI in Chicago. It looked interesting and something to think about. But then again we looked at HME, KME, Marion, Sutphen, Rosenbauer, Pierce and probably more that I can't think of right now. Nothing is set in stone and I will not be surprised if the committee makes several changes, 180 degree turns and stops and starts before we come up with the final idea and spec.

    It sounds like your department would be a good fit for it - Basically an engine with additional compartment space to carry some rescue stuff and some truck stuff. One of the biggest issues i see with the truck as an engine is the very limited hose bed especially if you are used to carrying multiple 2.5" attack lines and more than 500-600' of LDH.

    Right now the engine carries 3 - 1 3/4 inch preconnects, and no 2 1/2 preconnects. This rig would give us a 2 1/2 preconnect. But what we really want is a double crosslay on the front bumper. One to be a 200 foot 2 inch line and the other to be a 200 foot 2 1/2 inch line with a Blitzfire. We tend to nose into to rural driveways and draft from the rear. I am not sure a rear suction is even an option on the MVP.

    Another issue with your department, being rural, is the inability to carry hard suction. I guess you could mount in under the hose bed, but again, that would reduce the already limited hose bed size.

    My bet is if we said we needed hard suction Ferrara would make that work. Apparatus manufacturers pay engineers to figure that stuff out.

    As an engine, I guess I'm not sold on the concept. As a rescue with some engine company capabilities ... Maybe.

    Actually my #1 POC FD runs both of our engines with extrication equipment, some truck equipment (saws, fans, extra hooks, forcible entry tools) and full engine equipment now. It can be done it just takes some creativity.
    Basically we are brainstorming right now with nothing being counted out, or in, other than a few absolutes we won't live without.
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    Originally Posted by RFDACM02
    Is it just me or does it seem a lot of these are popping up and are mostly getting attention due to decent marketing. I mean, can't any decent builder do the same thing using an all electronic pump panel? Not trying to steer you in any way, just seeing a few very similar standard "customs" that would seem to be in any custom builders grasp. Ferrera MVP, E-One Emax, KME Pro, even the PUC all are opening up more compartment space by reducing the pumphouse size and panel space. They're all standardizing what some used to have custom built. That being said, a "stock" or fleet unit that meets your needs tends to be more budget friendly that starting from the ground up.

    Quote Originally Posted by ffp20 View Post
    How true...many manufactures do similar stuff. Some even have flashier marketing than others. The guy is from wisconsin....theres plenty of builders up his way who can and do build similar stuff.
    Golly guys, thanks for the brilliant insight that other companies build similar rigs. I wish that in all my years of being involved in speccing apparatus, and in fact trying to sell them, that I knew that. I CLEARLY STATED THE FOLLOWING IN MY FIRST POST:
    Ferrara MVP: Is anybody out there running one of these? It has come up as a possibility for my #2 POC FD.
    I followed up with asking anyone that had one for comments on it.

    ffp20...

    Gosh there are fire apparatus manufacturers in Wisconsin? WOW! You mean like Pierce, Custom Fab and Body, Marion, Seagrave, Custom Fire, US TANKER, Monroe Truck, HMA Fire, and some include Darley. I am sure there are more that I don't know of that make a few a year. Frankly, the idea that we should only look at what is built here seems limiting and short sighted to me. We will look at them, but if they can't or won't do what we want why should we buy from them?

    As I said above the MVP is a POSSIBILITY and that is why I wanted to hear from people that actually have one. Not people that saw one at a show, not people that saw one in a magazine, not one that hates Ferrara for whatever reason, not one that wants us to buy their favorite brand, but people that can add real world exerience to the topic.
    Last edited by FyredUp; 10-03-2013 at 07:23 PM.
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    Curious, what's leading you to specifically look at the MVP versus some of the other vehicles with similar designs?
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Golly guys, thanks for the brilliant insight that other companies build similar rigs. I wish that in all my years of being involved in speccing apparatus, and in fact trying to sell them, that I knew that. I CLEARLY STATED THE FOLLOWING IN MY FIRST POST: I followed up with asking anyone that had one for comments on it.

    ffp20...

    Gosh there are fire apparatus manufacturers in Wisconsin? WOW! You mean like Pierce, Custom Fab and Body, Marion, Seagrave, Custom Fire, US TANKER, Monroe Truck, HMA Fire, and some include Darley. I am sure there are more that I don't know of that make a few a year. Frankly, the idea that we should only look at what is built here seems limiting and short sighted to me. We will look at them, but if they can't or won't do what we want why should we buy from them?

    As I said above the MVP is a POSSIBILITY and that is why I wanted to hear from people that actually have one. Not people that saw one at a show, not people that saw one in a magazine, not one that hates Ferrara for whatever reason, not one that wants us to buy their favorite brand, but people that can add real world exerience to the topic.
    To see what real world users have to say is prudent i must admit. Whit that said, how is the mvp really any more unique than whats already built by the builders in your own back yard? being as how they have no dealer or service in the state, and other builders in your own back yard have experience in the mvp type of concept, its a no-brainer i would go to them first. You are not limiting yourself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    Curious, what's leading you to specifically look at the MVP versus some of the other vehicles with similar designs?
    Frankly, because we saw this rig in person at FRI and I saw it previously at my career FD when we were speccing a rescue engine.

    We haven't made any decision and only looking at a couple of brands can be limiting and not open your eyes to everything that may be available.
    Last edited by FyredUp; 10-04-2013 at 03:35 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffp20 View Post
    To see what real world users have to say is prudent i must admit. Whit that said, how is the mvp really any more unique than whats already built by the builders in your own back yard? being as how they have no dealer or service in the state, and other builders in your own back yard have experience in the mvp type of concept, its a no-brainer i would go to them first. You are not limiting yourself.
    This BS is EXACTLY what I wanted to avoid and why I specifically posted what I posted in my first post. That said what business it it of yours what MY FD chooses to look at and possibly buy for an engine for OUR use?

    Since reading comprehension apparently is NOT your strong suit let me repeat this for you. I was a member of our apparatus committe at my career FD for 10 years, I helped spec 2 rigs for my #1 POC FD, and now we are in the initial stages of planning an engine with some rescue capabilites at my #2 POC FD. This isn't my first time at the rodeo and we will look at a lot of rigs and different ideas before buying what is best for us.

    Further, the repair or service issue isn't as big an aspect as you want to make it. If the manufacturer wants our business they will come up with a way to provide warranty service and repairs. I know the out of state company that my #1 POC FD bought from did. They contracted with a local company for repairs. Golly that was almost impossible to figure out. Add to that when we spoke to the Ferrara rep at FRI they said they had a mobile repair truck in Chicago that would come to us for warranty repairs.

    Frankly, it galls me to have to defend to you, who has no stake in what my POC FD does, why we want to know about the MVP. Why do you care? Do you only buy fire apparatus built in New York? Why not? You expect me to justify why I am looking at rigs built outside Wisconsin.
    Last edited by FyredUp; 10-04-2013 at 12:32 PM.
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    A 1000 gallon water tank is available. Again we took a look at one of these at FRI in Chicago. It looked interesting and something to think about. But then again we looked at HME, KME, Marion, Sutphen, Rosenbauer, Pierce and probably more that I can't think of right now. Nothing is set in stone and I will not be surprised if the committee makes several changes, 180 degree turns and stops and starts before we come up with the final idea and spec.

    Would be interested to see how much of a hose bed would be left with a 1000g tank. I'll have to ask our Ferrera rep if he has any pictures of a rig with a 1000g tank the next time he pops in, which is quite often. The ones we have been looking at have 500g tanks, and with that, the hose bed isn't very large.

    Right now the engine carries 3 - 1 3/4 inch preconnects, and no 2 1/2 preconnects. This rig would give us a 2 1/2 preconnect. But what we really want is a double crosslay on the front bumper. One to be a 200 foot 2 inch line and the other to be a 200 foot 2 1/2 inch line with a Blitzfire. We tend to nose into to rural driveways and draft from the rear. I am not sure a rear suction is even an option on the MVP.

    I have seen very few Ferrera's with a hosebed in the bumper, but they are out there. And I believe you are right about a rear suction not being an option.


    My bet is if we said we needed hard suction Ferrara would make that work. Apparatus manufacturers pay engineers to figure that stuff out.

    They probably could, but just looking at the rig, the only place that I could see it being placed would be under the hosebed. They might be able to mount it up top but that would probably be a bugger to get down.


    Actually my #1 POC FD runs both of our engines with extrication equipment, some truck equipment (saws, fans, extra hooks, forcible entry tools) and full engine equipment now. It can be done it just takes some creativity.

    5 of the 6 engines at my combo department also carries extrication tools and a limited amount of cribbing as well. Each engine also carries it's own fans as well as few FE & overhaul tools.

    Saws are carried on the service trucks at the Station, and the rescue, which responds to every call, other than small brush fires.

    Funny thing is there is now some discussion about replacing the dedicated rescue with a 77' single rear axle stick and putting the tools in the front bumper. We currently have a limited need for a stick but with the new residential construction that we are seeing, the need will increase.

    At this point I'm not sold on the concept, especially since the discussion is centering around a stick and not a quint. At least the MVP would give us a second engine (though limited water tank and hosebed) at our Central Station.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 10-04-2013 at 01:11 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffp20 View Post
    To see what real world users have to say is prudent i must admit. Whit that said, how is the mvp really any more unique than whats already built by the builders in your own back yard? being as how they have no dealer or service in the state, and other builders in your own back yard have experience in the mvp type of concept, its a no-brainer i would go to them first. You are not limiting yourself.
    I'm gonna be completely 100% honest here, you logic and line of thinking sucks ***. So because we're in WI, we need to buy something that comes from WI? So we spec out a truck, Seagrave comes back with a price of $500,000, Pierce comes back with a price of $635,000, and Ferrara comes back with a price of $425,000... By your logic, we should by the Pierce because they are "in our backyard." No dice, sorry.

    When Dept 1 bought a new truck in 2005, the truck committee spec'd a truck out, and looked at various manufacturers and got prices. Guess what we went with? An HME. Why? Because it did and had everything the truck committee wanted it to. Guess what? They aren't in our back yard. Guess what? There wasn't (and I still don't think there is, I may be wrong) another HME Engine in the state. But guess what again? WE LOVE IT, and we got it at an amazing price, significantly lower than most of the other bids.

    Your line of thinking is extremely closed minded, and I'm thankful you're not on the truck committee for Dept. 2.
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    I believe that the way FFE can get the bigger tank sizes in, is to lengthen the wheelbase. That should only be a deal breaker if you have to have a short, short wheelbase unit. The net effect of that would be to increase the hosebed capacity-via length.

    I wonder just how customizable the concept is. FFE seems to be willing to go the distance to build customers the unit they need. Stock and demo units are just that.

    Front bumper crosslays aren't that hard to build, it's just that not that many depts ask for them. We own two engines with them, and they work great for us. ( for all the same reasons Fyred up wants them) Both of ours are plumbed as preconnects- ie each with it's own piping, but the same thing could be done with a single high flow discharge and a water thief.

    Likewise tunnels for hard suctions. They don't HAVE to take away from the hosebed. You'd have to ask Ferrara about the rear suction. Hey, somebody's got to be the first to order one with it, right?

    I've been looking at these units, too. I'm curious about those coffin compartments- if you don't really care about those, can the space be used for something else? Bigger hosebed? Ground ladders?

    Putting a 2.5" on the front bumper could free up some space in the main hosebed. 2 lines on the bumper, plus 3 speedlays could mean that you only need to carry supply hose up there.

    My vision is for a rural, first-in attack engine. Carrying full engine gear, plus truck gear. Front bumper preconnects, generator and light tower, saws, fans, cordreels, tarps, extra ground ladders, etc.

    Like any design, this unit has limits. To use LA's example, a combo engine/heavy rescue. I don't think ANY normal sized unit is going to be able to fill both those roles WELL. Compromises will have to be made- less compartment space vs smaller tank and hosebed. Or you could focus on fewer missions for the unit. For instance, put hazmat or USAR type equipment on a utility trailer. Stuff lots of extra SCBA bottles wherever they can go, in lieu of a cascade system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nozzle nut 22 View Post
    I believe that the way FFE can get the bigger tank sizes in, is to lengthen the wheelbase. That should only be a deal breaker if you have to have a short, short wheelbase unit. The net effect of that would be to increase the hosebed capacity-via length.

    As it is a custom unit, I don't think there would be an issue with adding some length to the apparatus.

    I wonder just how customizable the concept is. FFE seems to be willing to go the distance to build customers the unit they need. Stock and demo units are just that.

    Having worked with FFE with both my combo, and now with my volunteer department, they are quite flexible. As an example my VFD just ordered a 4000g tanker, which they have never built before. Up to this point they seem to open to the concept.

    I have seen some very unique units come through their doors.

    Obviously, customization costs, which can also becomes an issue, depending on the budget you are working with.


    Front bumper crosslays aren't that hard to build, it's just that not that many depts ask for them. We own two engines with them, and they work great for us. ( for all the same reasons Fyred up wants them) Both of ours are plumbed as preconnects- ie each with it's own piping, but the same thing could be done with a single high flow discharge and a water thief.

    I know they do them as we have an 1 3/4" outlet built into our truck's front bumper with a recessed cabinet with a cover that holds 150' of line. I have only seen one Ferrera with actual front-bumper crosslays though, so I know that they have done them before.

    Likewise tunnels for hard suctions. They don't HAVE to take away from the hosebed. You'd have to ask Ferrara about the rear suction. Hey, somebody's got to be the first to order one with it, right?

    They very well may be able to do it, but I have a feeling that one will cossssssst you.

    I've been looking at these units, too. I'm curious about those coffin compartments- if you don't really care about those, can the space be used for something else? Bigger hosebed? Ground ladders?

    Would be curious about that as well.

    Putting a 2.5" on the front bumper could free up some space in the main hosebed. 2 lines on the bumper, plus 3 speedlays could mean that you only need to carry supply hose up there.

    If you want to carry a full load of supply hose you will likely use every inch of the hosebed. if you could use the front bumper for a 2 1/2" that would solve that problem.

    My vision is for a rural, first-in attack engine. Carrying full engine gear, plus truck gear. Front bumper preconnects, generator and light tower, saws, fans, cordreels, tarps, extra ground ladders, etc.

    I think you would be hard pressed to accomplish that ... especially the part about the extra ground ladders. Looking closely at the truck I just wouldn't see anyplace to put them short of under the hosebed, and that would cost you hosebed space. I think the truck is a good concept but I don't think it's as customizable as a "standard" engine.


    Like any design, this unit has limits. To use LA's example, a combo engine/heavy rescue. I don't think ANY normal sized unit is going to be able to fill both those roles WELL. Compromises will have to be made- less compartment space vs smaller tank and hosebed. Or you could focus on fewer missions for the unit. For instance, put hazmat or USAR type equipment on a utility trailer. Stuff lots of extra SCBA bottles wherever they can go, in lieu of a cascade system.
    And that is part of the problem with the MVP with us. While it would give us a second engine at our Central Station, and would allow a single piece to perform both rescue/extrication and suppression functions, there would be trade offs. We may be able to put our high-angle/confined space gear on the MVP as well but it would be tight and I doubt the air cart would be able to be squeezed in anyplace.

    We would likely not be able to carry the cascade system, 24 spare bottle cylinders, spare foam cans, some of the structural support gear and our very basic haz-mat pigs, pads and absorbant on the MVP.
    We would likely have to get another vehicle for some of those functions.

    So in my mind, as you said, a multi-purpose vehicle will require tradeoffs and concessions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    This BS is EXACTLY what I wanted to avoid and why I specifically posted what I posted in my first post. That said what business it it of yours what MY FD chooses to look at and possibly buy for an engine for OUR use?

    Since reading comprehension apparently is NOT your strong suit let me repeat this for you. I was a member of our apparatus committe at my career FD for 10 years, I helped spec 2 rigs for my #1 POC FD, and now we are in the initial stages of planning an engine with some rescue capabilites at my #2 POC FD. This isn't my first time at the rodeo and we will look at a lot of rigs and different ideas before buying what is best for us.

    Further, the repair or service issue isn't as big an aspect as you want to make it. If the manufacturer wants our business they will come up with a way to provide warranty service and repairs. I know the out of state company that my #1 POC FD bought from did. They contracted with a local company for repairs. Golly that was almost impossible to figure out. Add to that when we spoke to the Ferrara rep at FRI they said they had a mobile repair truck in Chicago that would come to us for warranty repairs.

    Frankly, it galls me to have to defend to you, who has no stake in what my POC FD does, why we want to know about the MVP. Why do you care? Do you only buy fire apparatus built in New York? Why not? You expect me to justify why I am looking at rigs built outside Wisconsin.
    Dude you need to chill out, you're starting to be "that angry guy" and LA is starting to have more thoughtful posts, just sayin'.

    My post may not have been exactly what you were asking for. Sorry, you don't like it don't post in an open forum, many of us hear have learned a lot from posts that are not specific to the OP. Maybe BoxAlarm187 was more direct, but basically asked the question I was getting at: what is it about the MVP? Sorry you got some sort of pent up angst that makes you defense, but I doubt anyone here really has a vested interest in your final purchase, but in fact learn a thing or two from hearing about how others work through the purchase process. The fact is, given your history and posts here, I was interested in how you came to post this specific a question vs. the other options I know you're well versed in.

    Just because your the OP, doesn't mean it's all about you, if that was the case, most of the threads here would be pretty damn short.

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    We have one. It works just like we wanted/needed it to. We don't have the luxury of having a dedicated Rescue, so this fit the bill. Plenty of space for all our extrication (front bumper), struts, air bags, chains, etc. We have a full compartment dedicated to EMS, we are ALS non-transport.

    We have had a couple bugs that were quickly taken care of by Ferrara. Our rep is from Southern Indiana, and they rock. We can call at 0800, and have a plan or a solution usually within the same day. Our setup is 2000 gpm Hale Q-Max/500 tank. 40 gallon foam cell to the 3 crosslays. Sabremaster deck gun w/30' wired tether. Akron Electronic controls, drives quiet, pumps just as quiet.

    We have air ride suspension, and rides pretty damn good. Our truck is about 9" longer than we wanted due to the EPA junk. We just missed the pre-emission engine.

    Fact is, we love it. We plan to purchase another one in the future. The only thing we would change is minor layout issues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    Dude you need to chill out, you're starting to be "that angry guy" and LA is starting to have more thoughtful posts, just sayin'.

    My post may not have been exactly what you were asking for. Sorry, you don't like it don't post in an open forum, many of us hear have learned a lot from posts that are not specific to the OP. Maybe BoxAlarm187 was more direct, but basically asked the question I was getting at: what is it about the MVP? Sorry you got some sort of pent up angst that makes you defense, but I doubt anyone here really has a vested interest in your final purchase, but in fact learn a thing or two from hearing about how others work through the purchase process. The fact is, given your history and posts here, I was interested in how you came to post this specific a question vs. the other options I know you're well versed in.

    Just because your the OP, doesn't mean it's all about you, if that was the case, most of the threads here would be pretty damn short.
    First of all, the post you responded to wasn't even addressing you, it was addressing ffp20. Who seems to believe I have a duty to ONLY look at trucks manufactured in Wisconsin. Sorry Wrong.

    Second of all, I asked a specific question, about a specific piece of apparatus, and instead of my question being answered, other than by LA, I have had to counter challenges as to why we are even looking at it.

    Thirdly, maybe I am sounding angry but so many of you rag on anyone, me included, that have gone off on tangents on LA, yet here I ask a straight forward qustion, that there is no way to misconsture, and instead of getting my question answered I am having to defend why I even asked.

    Fourthly, I have no pent up angst about anything, but when I am told that I shouldn't be looking outside of my state because fire trucks are built here, by someone in NY that probably runs a Pierce or a Seagrave Engine, not made in NY by the way, it tends to **** me off a bit. Does he know my department? Does he know our needs? Does he know whether or not we have done research in Wisconsin already? No, he doesn't. As I stated very early on I am no novice to this process but I thought I could get some user experience to help guide us from members here.

    Why I specifically asked about the MVP: It is an interesting rig with lots of compartment space and different and unique equipment storage ideas. The rig we looked at at RRI was around $440K, the last rescue engine my career FD bought was just shy of $600K, and was built in Wisconsin. It has no more capabilities than the MVP we looked at at FRI other than a cascade system that we don't need because our heavy rescue already has one. Was I specifically saying that we were going to buy an MVP? Nope. The idea of having a demo come out has been discussed. If those running them already had problems, concerns, or good things to say, I wanted to hear them. The thing about firefighters and apparatus is they will almost always tell you the truth, or their version of the truth.
    Last edited by FyredUp; 10-05-2013 at 01:36 AM.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    Sorry, you don't like it don't post in an open forum, many of us hear have learned a lot from posts that are not specific to the OP. Maybe BoxAlarm187 was more direct, but basically asked the question I was getting at: what is it about the MVP?
    Exactly, no conjecture or anything inferred by my question.

    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    ...Thirdly, maybe I am sounding angry but so many of you rag on anyone, me included, that have gone off on tangents on LA, yet here I ask a straight forward qustion, that there is no way to misconsture, and instead of getting my question answered I am having to defend why I even asked.
    I too wondered why you went off on the guy like he'd just insulted your mother. If you don't like what he has to say, ignore him or just tell him you've already thought about other manufacturers.

    Why I specifically asked about the MVP: It is an interesting rig with lots of compartment space and different and unique equipment storage ideas. The rig we looked at at RRI was around $440K, the last rescue engine my career FD bought was just shy of $600K, and was built in Wisconsin. It has no more capabilities than the MVP we looked at at FRI other than a cascade system that we don't need because our heavy rescue already has one.
    This is what I was getting at. I've looked at the MVP at all of the major trade shows, and I do think it's an interesting approach to a rescue pumper. It does have the widest body of any of the manufacturers, but on the flip side, it was specifically designed to be a rescue pumper, not just a pumper with a rescue-style body on it. It's also got the option of PTO or t-case pump (QMAX), whereas the other manufacturers generally give you a REPTO or PTO option.

    I believe that they're advertising them now for about $385k and change (sans equipment, of course). Not a bad deal for a powerful medium-block and a 3/16" extruded body.

    At the risk of starting something OT, have you seen the electronic pump panel on the Toyne rescue pumper demo that stows away when it's not needed? Pretty slick.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    Exactly, no conjecture or anything inferred by my question.

    Indeed and again why I responded to ffp20 like I did and not you.

    I too wondered why you went off on the guy like he'd just insulted your mother. If you don't like what he has to say, ignore him or just tell him you've already thought about other manufacturers.

    Because I get dang tired of being scolded and told what an azzhole I am for going off on tangents on LA only to have this guy post the crap he did like I am some newbie to speccing a truck. Yes, it pi ss ed me off.

    This is what I was getting at. I've looked at the MVP at all of the major trade shows, and I do think it's an interesting approach to a rescue pumper. It does have the widest body of any of the manufacturers, but on the flip side, it was specifically designed to be a rescue pumper, not just a pumper with a rescue-style body on it. It's also got the option of PTO or t-case pump (QMAX), whereas the other manufacturers generally give you a REPTO or PTO option.

    I am relatively sure we would eliminate the pump and roll option as unnecessary. We want to lighten the load on our F550 midi pumper and make the first out rig more capable.

    I believe that they're advertising them now for about $385k and change (sans equipment, of course). Not a bad deal for a powerful medium-block and a 3/16" extruded body.

    Yes, they are. And yes, it seems to be a good deal.

    At the risk of starting something OT, have you seen the electronic pump panel on the Toyne rescue pumper demo that stows away when it's not needed? Pretty slick.

    No I haven't. We did look at Toyne at FRI and liked what they had too.
    So there it is in a nutshell. We are exploring options to get the biggest bang for our buck.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvfd5116 View Post
    We have one. It works just like we wanted/needed it to. We don't have the luxury of having a dedicated Rescue, so this fit the bill. Plenty of space for all our extrication (front bumper), struts, air bags, chains, etc. We have a full compartment dedicated to EMS, we are ALS non-transport.

    We have had a couple bugs that were quickly taken care of by Ferrara. Our rep is from Southern Indiana, and they rock. We can call at 0800, and have a plan or a solution usually within the same day. Our setup is 2000 gpm Hale Q-Max/500 tank. 40 gallon foam cell to the 3 crosslays. Sabremaster deck gun w/30' wired tether. Akron Electronic controls, drives quiet, pumps just as quiet.

    We have air ride suspension, and rides pretty damn good. Our truck is about 9" longer than we wanted due to the EPA junk. We just missed the pre-emission engine.

    Fact is, we love it. We plan to purchase another one in the future. The only thing we would change is minor layout issues.
    Thanks for you input. I do appreciate it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    First of all, the post you responded to wasn't even addressing you, it was addressing ffp20. Who seems to believe I have a duty to ONLY look at trucks manufactured in Wisconsin. Sorry Wrong. OK, maybe I saw your response as a wider brush, still it seems a little over the top for what was posted.

    Second of all, I asked a specific question, about a specific piece of apparatus, and instead of my question being answered, other than by LA, I have had to counter challenges as to why we are even looking at it. Maybe these questions are not challenges, but in fact people interested in what brought the question on. This forum area has been devoid of decent new apparatus idea/threads for quite a while.

    Thirdly, maybe I am sounding angry but so many of you rag on anyone, me included, that have gone off on tangents on LA, yet here I ask a straight forward qustion, that there is no way to misconsture, and instead of getting my question answered I am having to defend why I even asked. Sorry I still fail to see any attack?

    Fourthly, I have no pent up angst about anything, but when I am told that I shouldn't be looking outside of my state because fire trucks are built here, by someone in NY that probably runs a Pierce or a Seagrave Engine, not made in NY by the way, it tends to **** me off a bit. Does he know my department? Does he know our needs? Does he know whether or not we have done research in Wisconsin already? No, he doesn't. As I stated very early on I am no novice to this process but I thought I could get some user experience to help guide us from members here. Worthy goal, possibly you had a naive moment thinking you'd getting just what you wanted and nothing more here on FH.com?

    Why I specifically asked about the MVP: It is an interesting rig with lots of compartment space and different and unique equipment storage ideas. The rig we looked at at RRI was around $440K, the last rescue engine my career FD bought was just shy of $600K, and was built in Wisconsin. It has no more capabilities than the MVP we looked at at FRI other than a cascade system that we don't need because our heavy rescue already has one. Was I specifically saying that we were going to buy an MVP? Nope. The idea of having a demo come out has been discussed. If those running them already had problems, concerns, or good things to say, I wanted to hear them. The thing about firefighters and apparatus is they will almost always tell you the truth, or their version of the truth. see below
    Suffice it to say that your last paragraph here would have answered many questions earlier with less "stress".

    In our case in '07-09 we purpose design/built our rescue pumper to incorporate many of the features and functions that the MVP (et als) are offering in a "stock" truck program. At the time, there were far fewer "program" rescue pumpers so we ended up having to really start from the ground up (copying hundreds of previously built apparatus from all over and from numerous builders). If we were to buy another today we'd likely find a one of these stock trucks that could fit the bill with far less customization and maybe at a lesser price (for the current pricing). You last sentence is really spot on, we found that a 5 day road trip stopping in and looking at similar apparatus revealed a lot of "truths" that impacted our decisions as well as fed the design. And it does pay to talk to the guys who operate the apparatus as opposed to the guy who bought it and is still "justifying his reasons". We found a wide margin in customer satisfaction from user to chief!
    Last edited by RFDACM02; 10-05-2013 at 06:14 PM.

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