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Thread: Preparing for Live Burn

  1. #21
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    Sorry, but there is no way that donning the entire facepiece is quicker than snapping in the regulator. Reasons were explained in a prior post. You just need to practice more. I don't find doing it this way has any effect on fogging. That's a separate issue.


  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eng34FF View Post
    I also wait as long as I can to go on air. Usually I will mask up in the yard, but wait until just before I step in side the door to go on air.
    This^^^I don like this as well and was taught that you never know when you'll need those last few breaths of air that you save by going on as you hit the porch.

  3. #23
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Highschoolvolunteer View Post
    Fyred: For me doing the mask-reg at the same time works better simply so it doesn't fog up too. I am not suggesting getting off the rig masked up. I am saying mask up prior to entering the structure, and before you enter the hazardous area click in the regulator. That is half the problem too-- I mean it is all situation dependent, reports of possible smoke vs room and contents. If you are being taught to enter a smoke filled environment without having your facepiece on with your regulator clicked in you are being taught something not only WRONG but dangerous to your long term health. We had a TIC in with us, and the ceiling was at about 1500. So unless you are roughly 8 feet tall you were not in 1500 degrees when standing up. Ours isn't a tower, it is a Cape style building that burns hay-stuffed pallets. Inconsequential to my points. They knew the collar was buggered, most of them are, hence why they are working on getting new gear. This is going to sound harsh, and you may think that I am a dick, but whoever decided that it was appropriate for ANYONE, especially a student, to enter a burn facility with faulty turnout gear needs a swift kick in the *** and removal from any responsibility for live fire training.

    Here we tend to be a bit more conservative about SCBA, we have some people that don't actually attach the face piece unless it is an inferno, same with overhaul some don't use it, etc.

    We don't call that conservative, we call that idiotic. Ever hear of Carbon Monoxide? How about Hydrogen Cyanide? Both VERY commonly found in the atmosphere during overhaul. How about the fact that most homes are filled with synthetic materials and when they burn and all those toxic fumes mix and become a witches brew not even scientists can predict what they are and what they will do to your body. As an officer you, or anyone else, would be inside with me in a hazardous environment without your scba facepiece on, your regulator clicked in, and breathing air from the cylinder.
    You may think me a safety sally, but let's be honest, I have 37 years in the fire service, how long do you have? I have NEVER been treated for smoke inhalation, not once, not ever. I have no lung related problems. I wash my gear after significant exposure at a fire, including my helmet. I believe WE as firefighters have an obligation to take care of our health. Proper use of SCBA, including wearing it when we are in hazardous atmospheres, cleaning our gear, and cleaning our bodies after exposure. The day of the dirty smoke encrusted helmet, filthy, sooty, smoke smelling gear, being a badge of honor need to be gone for ever.

    The last piece of advice I have for you is be VERY careful who you emulate.
    Last edited by FyredUp; 10-22-2013 at 10:59 PM.
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  4. #24
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    It may sound like I am being dismissive, sorry that wasn't my intention. You are right, the ceilings were obviously higher than me, so true perhaps the temperature was a bit different my apologies for that. The day I joined I was told to forget everything I had learned prior because this departments way is different than anyone elses, and whilst it sounds unsafe, the only LODD they ever had was an accident involving some machinery.

    We do check for HCN and CO and stuff like that, however if those levels are in the green then most do it off air.

    If having the facepiece on is not the reason for the fogging, than what is? I mean I definitely get what you are saying, but as it sits right now, for me anyway, not being able to see due to a foggy mask (without ****ing through air trying to purge-dry it) is more dangerous-- I mean if you go through the roof because you can see where you are walking than usually burning to death is going to trump the exposure, no?

    Again I am not trying to sound arrogant, and I realise I may have, so my apologies Fyred if it seems like I was dismissing you.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Highschoolvolunteer View Post
    It may sound like I am being dismissive, sorry that wasn't my intention. You are right, the ceilings were obviously higher than me, so true perhaps the temperature was a bit different my apologies for that. The day I joined I was told to forget everything I had learned prior because this departments way is different than anyone elses, and whilst it sounds unsafe, the only LODD they ever had was an accident involving some machinery.

    We do check for HCN and CO and stuff like that, however if those levels are in the green then most do it off air.

    If having the facepiece on is not the reason for the fogging, than what is? I mean I definitely get what you are saying, but as it sits right now, for me anyway, not being able to see due to a foggy mask (without ****ing through air trying to purge-dry it) is more dangerous-- I mean if you go through the roof because you can see where you are walking than usually burning to death is going to trump the exposure, no?

    Again I am not trying to sound arrogant, and I realise I may have, so my apologies Fyred if it seems like I was dismissing you.
    Good luck kid. If I were you I wouldn't waste anytime as a firefighter, go right to chief.

    I do mean to sound dismissive, I am done with you. You don't want help you want to brag and show how tough you are. Buh Bye!
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  6. #26
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    Good visibility is not something you should be expecting. It may be dark on that roof (unless all your fires are during the day) and there may be smoke on that roof (unless you are lucky enough to have only those smokeless fires).You will have to learn how to operate in limited visibility. You will have to learn how to evaluate floors and roofs for structural integrity. If you fall through a roof it is unlikely that a fogged facepiece will be the main reason.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eng34FF View Post
    Overhaul is slightly different and the need for SCBA depends on the circumstances.
    Seems like I've been reading recently that SCBA should be just as mandatory for overhaul as it is for any other aspect of fire attack.

    If there's smoke, there's still stuff off-gassing, and some of that stuff can kill you.

    The Europeans have started giving a Cyanokit to any and all smoke inhalation victims - civilian and firefighter alike. The recovery rate has apparently improved markedly. I would opine that some of our "returned from a fire and fell ill" LODDs may be due to the firefighters being poisoned at the fire scene. Even pump operators/chauffeurs have shown increased levels of cyanide in their blood following fire incidents.

    Back in the "leather lung" days, most of the furnishings of a home or business were natural materials. Nowadays they're all synthetic, made with who-knows-what chemicals. Better safe than sorry.
    Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

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  8. #28
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eng34FF View Post
    I'd listen to what Fyred is trying to say. There appears to be some issues with the training. Listen to what he is saying regarding masking up. I also wait as long as I can to go on air. Usually I will mask up in the yard, but wait until just before I step in side the door to go on air. Much easier to click in the resperator than don the whole mask. I also don't have to worry about getting the chinstrap tangled in the hose that way.

    I will also question the instructor letting you go inside with a collar that was "buggered" or letting you stand up if the temp was 1500. I doubt that the air you actually stood up in was 1500, but it may have been right at the ceiling.

    Your last sentence got my attention. That's not what I call being conservative. I think of being conservative as being safer. If guys are not on air unless it's an inferno, there's an issue. Overhaul is slightly different and the need for SCBA depends on the circumstances.
    I agree with the vast majority of what you said. Safety is OUR responsibility and using our scba when we should is part of that.

    Your last sentence got My attention. prevailing evidence shows that the atmosphere during overhaul may be as dangerous if not more so due to toxic gases than the actual fire. Unless you can monitor for cyanide and CO, to show it is safe, keep the face piece on and breath off the tank.
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    I agree with the vast majority of what you said. Safety is OUR responsibility and using our scba when we should is part of that.

    Your last sentence got My attention. prevailing evidence shows that the atmosphere during overhaul may be as dangerous if not more so due to toxic gases than the actual fire. Unless you can monitor for cyanide and CO, to show it is safe, keep the face piece on and breath off the tank.
    I don't disagree with you or tree, I just didn't explain myself well. We often have extended overhaul for several reasons. For example , we might need to wait for the fire-marshal before really tearing into things. By that time the place has been well ventilated and cooled down, and everybody has had a chance to have a cigarette. With no smoke remaining (from the fire), and PPV to bring in fresh air, I may feel comfortable without SCBA. It's a judgment call based on conditions.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    I agree with the vast majority of what you said. Safety is OUR responsibility and using our scba when we should is part of that.

    Your last sentence got My attention. prevailing evidence shows that the atmosphere during overhaul may be as dangerous if not more so due to toxic gases than the actual fire. Unless you can monitor for cyanide and CO, to show it is safe, keep the face piece on and breath off the tank.

    You sir would be correct. Now as a probie myself im in the process of learning all of this. We have some of the best instructors in our state and every single one has stated that an SCBA needs to worn during the overhaul process too. The main reasons were the contents still off-gassing (already mentioned) and the fact that as you are pulling things apart and moving stuff around you create a good amount of toxic dust. I would rather have to fill a few more tanks than use my lungs as a dust filter

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