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Thread: US system of fire fighting more dangerous than other ones?

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Sometimes you just have to free your mind and see the world through other's eyes.
    You are putting words in my mouth. A couple of points:

    I did not know where jasper works. It doesn't matter. I did not accuse him or Milwaukee FD of being yokels (with or without any concept of what they are doing).

    I did not justify staffing cuts. I made a point of saying I was not anti staffing.

    I don't need a reality check. I know that not all departments are like mine. I stated that staffing attitudes seem to line up culturally according to where we work. I acknowledged that there are departments that are lightly staffed or short staffed.

    I have no lack of respect for those outside the FDNY. I don't expect anyone to do what we do. Don't lump me in with anyone (FDNY or otherwise) who does. Take a couple of FDNY engines, tell them to draft from a pond, fill some tankers, transport the water to the scene and supply an operating pumper and there will probably be some hiccups. Because we don't routinely do what many of you do. I have never denied this.

    Sometimes we DO have too many guys. More than we can use. Riding with a lesser staffed department won't change that.

    Finally, you say I should free my mind and see through other's eyes? Wouldn't you have an equal responsibility to free YOUR mind and see through MY eyes? Seems it should be a two way street. Maybe you need to ride with us for a while.

  2. #27
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    My bad. When I spoke, I guess in my head I was talking about guys qualified to do the job. You know, stretch hose, advance lines, force entry, vent, etc...my bad, on assuming that.
    In my world, it GENERALLY takes two people to place a ladder...more than that to operate a handline, carry generators, drag victims, place shoring, rig rope systems, place trench panels, etc...maybe that's just me...

    I stand by my statement. Actually, I stand by my bosses statement, made twenty years ago, or so. If you need that explained to you, so be it.

    As far as Germany...I dunno, if they kill fewer guys and have way more guys doing the stuff we do, maybe we should check into what they're doing.

    Don, thanks for the props. Given the past month, or so, very much undeserved.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasper 45 View Post
    My bad. When I spoke, I guess in my head I was talking about guys qualified to do the job. You know, stretch hose, advance lines, force entry, vent, etc...my bad, on assuming that.
    In my world, it GENERALLY takes two people to place a ladder...more than that to operate a handline, carry generators, drag victims, place shoring, rig rope systems, place trench panels, etc...maybe that's just me...

    I stand by my statement. Actually, I stand by my bosses statement, made twenty years ago, or so. If you need that explained to you, so be it.

    As far as Germany...I dunno, if they kill fewer guys and have way more guys doing the stuff we do, maybe we should check into what they're doing.

    Don, thanks for the props. Given the past month, or so, very much undeserved.
    There was no offense meant toward you or your department. Or that old boss of yours. I was just making the point that there is a not so subtle difference between "there were guys everywhere" and "the guys were working like a well oiled machine" (or something along those lines).
    And yes, apparently I did need it explained to me. For reasons already put forth.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by captnjak View Post
    There was no offense meant toward you or your department. Or that old boss of yours. I was just making the point that there is a not so subtle difference between "there were guys everywhere" and "the guys were working like a well oiled machine" (or something along those lines).
    And yes, apparently I did need it explained to me. For reasons already put forth.
    Bad thing about the on-line thing...s h i t ain't always conveyed...too many assumptions make for too many needless arguments and stress...I could have worded my post better...we all learn


    My sole point is staffing covers all the work that needs to be done. If you have too many (tongue-in-cheek) guys on scene, it's "all covered".
    Last edited by Jasper 45; 10-24-2013 at 09:55 PM.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by captnjak View Post
    You are putting words in my mouth. A couple of points:

    I did not know where jasper works. It doesn't matter. I did not accuse him or Milwaukee FD of being yokels (with or without any concept of what they are doing).

    I did not justify staffing cuts. I made a point of saying I was not anti staffing.

    I don't need a reality check. I know that not all departments are like mine. I stated that staffing attitudes seem to line up culturally according to where we work. I acknowledged that there are departments that are lightly staffed or short staffed.

    I have no lack of respect for those outside the FDNY. I don't expect anyone to do what we do. Don't lump me in with anyone (FDNY or otherwise) who does. Take a couple of FDNY engines, tell them to draft from a pond, fill some tankers, transport the water to the scene and supply an operating pumper and there will probably be some hiccups. Because we don't routinely do what many of you do. I have never denied this.

    Sometimes we DO have too many guys. More than we can use. Riding with a lesser staffed department won't change that.

    Finally, you say I should free my mind and see through other's eyes? Wouldn't you have an equal responsibility to free YOUR mind and see through MY eyes? Seems it should be a two way street. Maybe you need to ride with us for a while.
    My mind is free, I am somewhat jealous of the fact that you can overwhelm many fires with manpower, trained, skilled experienced manpower. What you seem to fail to understand, perhaps because you don't know people well enough here, when the average firefighter talks about needed manpower to kick a fire's azz he is talking about trained, skilled firefighters, not yard breathers.

    I would love to come ride. Send me the liability waiver and I will be on my way as soon as I can fit it in to my teaching schedule.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    My mind is free, I am somewhat jealous of the fact that you can overwhelm many fires with manpower, trained, skilled experienced manpower. What you seem to fail to understand, perhaps because you don't know people well enough here, when the average firefighter talks about needed manpower to kick a fire's azz he is talking about trained, skilled firefighters, not yard breathers.

    I would love to come ride. Send me the liability waiver and I will be on my way as soon as I can fit it in to my teaching schedule.
    No I don't know people well enough here. After all, it's for the most part an anonymous forum. So when the "average" firefighter speaks I don't think any of us should presume to know what the hell he's talking about.

    I admit that it's different for the handful that actually do know each other.

    Unfortunately there is no waiver for ride alongs because there are basically NO ride alongs allowed. "Official" approval is next to impossible to get.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by captnjak View Post
    No I don't know people well enough here. After all, it's for the most part an anonymous forum. So when the "average" firefighter speaks I don't think any of us should presume to know what the hell he's talking about.

    Just like earning your bones in the firehouse to get accepted there is a "time in grade" learning curve here at FH.com. Once you are here a while you will develop a sense of who knows the job and who is a probie and who is to be avoided.

    I admit that it's different for the handful that actually do know each other.

    Some of us do actually know each other and have met, some just know each other from here and experience of past exchanges.

    Unfortunately there is no waiver for ride alongs because there are basically NO ride alongs allowed. "Official" approval is next to impossible to get.

    Well then, as excited I was about the offer it seems it is not a possibility.
    It is hard sometimes to express certain things clearly in the printed word.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
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    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasper 45 View Post
    Bad thing about the on-line thing...s h i t ain't always conveyed...too many assumptions make for too many needless arguments and stress...I could have worded my post better...we all learn


    My sole point is staffing covers all the work that needs to be done. If you have too many (tongue-in-cheek) guys on scene, it's "all covered".
    There goes my impression of you, ya former hillbilly whacker
    IAFF

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasper 45 View Post
    My bad. When I spoke, I guess in my head I was talking about guys qualified to do the job. You know, stretch hose, advance lines, force entry, vent, etc...my bad, on assuming that.
    In my world, it GENERALLY takes two people to place a ladder...more than that to operate a handline, carry generators, drag victims, place shoring, rig rope systems, place trench panels, etc...maybe that's just me...

    I stand by my statement. Actually, I stand by my bosses statement, made twenty years ago, or so. If you need that explained to you, so be it.

    As far as Germany...I dunno, if they kill fewer guys and have way more guys doing the stuff we do, maybe we should check into what they're doing.

    Don, thanks for the props. Given the past month, or so, very much undeserved.
    Andy, you know I have your back. The negative press is a few bad apples in an entire orchard of good people that are good firefighters. keep your chin up and this too shall pass with those deserving punishment dealt with appropriately.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    It is hard sometimes to express certain things clearly in the printed word.
    So I've noticed. But it seems so clear inside my head!

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by captnjak View Post
    So I've noticed. But it seems so clear inside my head!
    Ya gotta watch what those voices say to you....
    Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

    Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

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