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Thread: Rescue Apparatus

  1. #21
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Call me a crumudgeon but I have never met a mini-pumper that I didn't learn to hate. The problem is, and my #2 POC FD is a perfect example of this, they are almost always grossly overloaded. The FD buys a mini-pumper with the idea that it will be light and mobile with off road capability and the next thing you know it has 6 scba, spare bottles, extrication equipment, 2 crosslays, a deckgun, 1000 feet of LDH, and eventually almost the same equipment as on the full size pumper. There goes any thought of light and mobile.

    You can put me in the category of non-believer when it comes to high pressure fog too. Buy a real pump capable of at least 200 gpm so you can put 2 real handlines on the ground if necessary.

    Buy at least a medium duty chassis, with more capacity for equipment than you currently possess. You will be absolutely amazed at the equipment that will almost magically appear to fill the rig over the next couple of years.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
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  2. #22
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    Cool

    I agree, do not go with a Ford, Dodge, or GM 1 ton chassis, if you are going to carry 300 gallons of water & rescue equipment. Take a look at the Medium chassis that are available from E-one or some other company in your area. I have seen a real nice rig on the Foutsfire.com web site called the CJ series rescue pumper at a very good price !

  3. #23
    Forum Member FFWALT's Avatar
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    If you have a chance to spec a rescue (wet or dry) really take a look at how you are operating and how you want to operate. Our department had this opportunity in the late 90's. We were looking at a F series and that would handle the weight but the cubic space was larger than practical on that chassis. We ended up with a Freightliner FL112 with a 16 foot walk around body. We also included 300 gallons of water, foam and a pump run off of the Allison PTO port.

    Rescue 1 was put into service in 2000 and for at least the first 8 years we used the pump at least once each year. It's not enough to fight a significant fire but if you make a lot of foam it will buy you time until the cavalry (tanker or engine) arrives.

    When this apparatus was put into service we were able to operate off of the right side and the rear which was ideal for a blocking position. We also had a lot of space. Fast forward about 10 years and we were trying to maximize space and not everything that was routinely used remained on the right side.

    The other posters are correct, spec the truck with water, pump and foam. On this type of apparatus I lean towards a pump run off of the transmission PTO port. A 250 gpm pump would be plenty. Also take a hard look at where and how you will carry your attack line. A friend and I often debate how to design the ideal apparatus (regardless of type). He had one of the better ideas I've heard for a rescue trucks attack line, put it in the tailboard. Overall out of the way, easy to deploy, easy to deploy and doesn't take up compartment space. Just something to consider.

    If you can design a rescue apparatus, really take the time to do it right and plan for the future. Rescue apparatus suffer from the "Velcro effect" more than most types of apparatus. Really consider how you will recharge batteries, how you will operate at a scene and the possibility of more than one scene on each call. By this I mean a vehicle in each ditch.

    Hope this helps. Let me know if you have questions or need clarification.

    Walt
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  4. #24
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    Try looking at a compressed air CAFS system. You just have the water tank with foam concentrate in it, a 1" reel, and SCUBA tanks. Great for vehicle fires. You can go with a 100 gallon tank and still have more more extinguishing capability than 300 gallons of plain water.

  5. #25
    Forum Member SFD_E73_RET's Avatar
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    Here is an example of what johnsb is talking about on Mulvane Fire & Rescue's new Toyne Rescue:

    http://www.mulvaneemergencyservices..../IMG_1950e.jpg

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFD_E73_RET View Post
    Here is an example of what johnsb is talking about on Mulvane Fire & Rescue's new Toyne Rescue:

    http://www.mulvaneemergencyservices..../IMG_1950e.jpg
    Yes, that's EXACTLY what I was talking about. We have the exact same set up. It's a 30 gal. tank with a SCUBA tank for pressure with a 100' 1" reel. It will make 600 gallons (give or take) of finished foam. They can mount a tank horizontally or vertically. There's 30,60,70,120 and 200 gal. versions. The only thing I don't like about them is on some models they have SCUBA instead of SCBA tanks. But I think you could have them spec'd with SCBA's if you talked with them, it sure would be more convenient. And they'd be much cheaper than putting in a pump.
    http://www.trimax.us/

  7. #27
    Forum Member FFWALT's Avatar
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    johnsb,

    We only have one grass rig with CAFS so it's not my immediate thought. When I looked at the link SFD_E73_RET posted my knee jerk thought was that it completely wasted an entire compartment. Of course, then I realized the CAFS unit such as that one takes up the same amount, or less, than a standard tank and pump so you could make up the space difference in another area.

    If it works for you then go for it. I agree a SCBA cylinder would be better than a SCUBA cylinder because we have them on the trucks. Out of curiosity, what does it take to recharge the unit in case you use the entire amount and need more? Only asking because I'm not familiar with this style.

    Walt
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  8. #28
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    How much will a setup like in the photo cost to have installed in a rescue apparatus ?

  9. #29
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    Brother - a couple of observations from a "geezer" in the fire service. On this forum there are probably 1,000 years of apparatus design, purchase, use and experience. I, personally, have been in the fire service for 49 years, and in apparatus sales for over 30. There are some extremely smart people who read and respond on this blog - most have forgotten more about apparatus than I ever dreamed of knowing. So- a little advice (or an impartation of wisdom - depending on how you look at it)
    When you ask a question such as yours, put out some facts - you will learn that opinions based on fact are much more valuable than strict opinions.
    What are the demographics of your department - 300 runs a year, 20, 3000? Are you rural or metro - or surbaban? Do you run interstate? Have a major highway with 30-40,000 cars per day? Is extricating "bubba" from a hay baler qualify for call of the year or is an overturned semi with 20+ vehicles involved not all that unlikely?
    Again - the expertise and wisdom on this forum is enormous - much more than you will ever receive from any apparatus "expert" (of which I like to sometimes think I am - but not often!)
    The people on here can save you, if you are wise enough to listen to what they say, and make them qualify their statements, years of research and thousands of $$$

    Stay Safe - and good luck on your purchase of a "wet" rescue!

    And yes, I agree with MANY of those who post - a "mini" pumper is good for "mini" incidents. DEFINE YOUR MISSION!
    Last edited by hoseline12; 02-10-2014 at 03:17 PM.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFWALT View Post
    johnsb,

    We only have one grass rig with CAFS so it's not my immediate thought. When I looked at the link SFD_E73_RET posted my knee jerk thought was that it completely wasted an entire compartment. Of course, then I realized the CAFS unit such as that one takes up the same amount, or less, than a standard tank and pump so you could make up the space difference in another area.

    If it works for you then go for it. I agree a SCBA cylinder would be better than a SCUBA cylinder because we have them on the trucks. Out of curiosity, what does it take to recharge the unit in case you use the entire amount and need more? Only asking because I'm not familiar with this style.

    Walt
    We also fit 3 fire extinguishers in the same compartment, Dry chem, water can w/foam, and a CO2. As for filling the SCUBA, it just takes an adapter. The SCUBA tanks are cheaper, but they are an odd bottle to have. Once you charge the system, you have to refill the bottle, thus the fact that SCBA's would be more practical. I'm sure a regulator on the system would permit that.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodbridge View Post
    How much will a setup like in the photo cost to have installed in a rescue apparatus ?
    I can't remember what it cost, but I think it was under $2000 in '08. It's a very simple system, with few parts to go bad. I think the reel is the thing most likely to have a problem, and how many problems do you see with a booster reel?? It's basically a water can on steroids with a 1" reel.

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