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Thread: Ground ladder carries:

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    Default Ground ladder carries:

    I am having quite a bit of difficulty lately when it comes to ground ladders, primarily with a new technique that this other department uses. It is not so much the carry as it is getting it onto my shoulder. They teach the (this is going to be technical...) 'With ladder on beam face the tip with closest knee down, lift, pirouette, throw shoulder under upper beam, hopefully facing the butt and still on two feet' method. However for the love of me I cannot get it up onto my shoulder. And those very rare times I can get it even moderately close to my shoulder it is rather uncomfortable, borderline painful. This is all on the 24ft so not a big ladder and not particularly heavy. We're expected to be able to do this on a 28ft and perhaps a 32ft.

    I have never had so much trouble with such a puny ladder; I usually high carry it and ultimately if tomorrow we were to get a ripper, that is what I would use out of expediency, but for the sake of testing I do need to get this method down.

    Any tips? Even if it deviates from the prescribed method, as long as it is low carry I imagine that it will be okay.

    I would be keen to learn how to actually do this, because at the last training I felt a bit like FMJ's Private Pyle...

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    Thanks.

    *On a side note did you find a time machine, the time stamp on your post is almost 2 hours in the future.... LOL just something I noticed*

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    that is ZUlU time


    so is that the carry you are trying to do??

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    Funny I never noticed that before.

    Anyway, yeah that is the carry. That method looks a little simpler, yet I am not sure how easy that will be on our 24ft... and I double checked, we're supposed to be able to do that on the 28ft too...

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    Just get with someone that knows how to do it and willing to put in a little training time

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    It takes practice and a certain amount of strength to do ladder carries.

    I am no giant of a man but I can easily carry and raise both a 24 and a 28 foot extension ladder by myself. In fact I have a an older decommissioned 28 foot extension ladder with external guides that I use as my ladder around the house. I carry and raise that ladder by myself all the time.

    I agree with the idea of getting with an experienced firefighter and working with them on the carries and raises.
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    You're right, to an extent some of it is simply that I need to lift a few more weights!

    I know a few career guys, so I am going to try and work with them.

    Thanks!

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    surprised to see that method with a 28 and 32, the weight difference between a 24 and those is significant enough, should be 2 person ladders for career longevity sake, in my humble opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CATruckie81 View Post
    surprised to see that method with a 28 and 32, the weight difference between a 24 and those is significant enough, should be 2 person ladders for career longevity sake, in my humble opinion.
    Two is definitely better but sometimes reality interjects and you have to do it alone.

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    When it comes to ladder carrying (and almost all other) evolutions, it is best to just get out there and do it over amd over. Videos, diagrams and explanations by others can only get us so far and often complicates things further.

    Here's my ideal ladder carrying evolution:

    "Pick up the ladder. I don't care how. Carry it to where it needs to be. I don't care how. Raise it to where it needs to be. I don't care how. And if you're alone and the needed ladder is too big to carry, then drag the goshdarn thing."

    Anyone who can't come up with a way to do this within about two minutes might not belong in the fire service. If it's a problem of strength, hit the gym.

    And yes, my department also has long winded explanations for simple things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by captnjak View Post
    When it comes to ladder carrying (and almost all other) evolutions, it is best to just get out there and do it over amd over. Videos, diagrams and explanations by others can only get us so far and often complicates things further.

    Here's my ideal ladder carrying evolution:

    "Pick up the ladder. I don't care how. Carry it to where it needs to be. I don't care how. Raise it to where it needs to be. I don't care how. And if you're alone and the needed ladder is too big to carry, then drag the goshdarn thing."

    Anyone who can't come up with a way to do this within about two minutes might not belong in the fire service. If it's a problem of strength, hit the gym.

    And yes, my department also has long winded explanations for simple things.
    and if you have to get on the internet to figure it out --- you might want to rethink the fire service. Firefighting (correction -good firefighting) is still as hands on blue collar job, the best fireman have already learned how to WORK before they get on the job.
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    Quote Originally Posted by captnjak View Post
    When it comes to ladder carrying (and almost all other) evolutions, it is best to just get out there and do it over amd over. Videos, diagrams and explanations by others can only get us so far and often complicates things further.

    Here's my ideal ladder carrying evolution:

    "Pick up the ladder. I don't care how. Carry it to where it needs to be. I don't care how. Raise it to where it needs to be. I don't care how. And if you're alone and the needed ladder is too big to carry, then drag the goshdarn thing."

    Anyone who can't come up with a way to do this within about two minutes might not belong in the fire service. If it's a problem of strength, hit the gym.

    And yes, my department also has long winded explanations for simple things.
    Brother, after reading this and some of the other stuff you have posted lately I have come to the conclusion that we aren't so different at all.

    Another great post by you.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    and if you have to get on the internet to figure it out --- you might want to rethink the fire service. Firefighting (correction -good firefighting) is still as hands on blue collar job, the best fireman have already learned how to WORK before they get on the job.
    You may find this funny. I got into a discussion at a family Christmas lastnight where I was told that within 20 years there will be virtually no blue collar jobs left. It was all I could do not to laugh in their face.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

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    Quote Originally Posted by captnjak View Post
    When it comes to ladder carrying (and almost all other) evolutions, it is best to just get out there and do it over amd over. Videos, diagrams and explanations by others can only get us so far and often complicates things further.

    Here's my ideal ladder carrying evolution:

    "Pick up the ladder. I don't care how. Carry it to where it needs to be. I don't care how. Raise it to where it needs to be. I don't care how. And if you're alone and the needed ladder is too big to carry, then drag the goshdarn thing."

    Anyone who can't come up with a way to do this within about two minutes might not belong in the fire service. If it's a problem of strength, hit the gym.

    And yes, my department also has long winded explanations for simple things.
    Absolutely agree with that... at scene, in training is another story all together. Training is where we make muscle memory so that you can do exactly what you outlined in your recent post, Get the thing up! The fireground is not the time to address a deficiency.

    Whether you realize it or not, thats exactly why you did those same evolutions when you were being trained. For the young guys without the reps its not fair to tell them to simply "hit the gym," there is a lot of technique and fine tuning that can lead to a more efficient operation all the way around.

    By the way guys, you know this is the Probie House thread right? Is it right for there to be a Probie House thread and we are in here as the guys "providing advice" saying if you have to ask questions on the internet find another job? Come on guys, either help the guy out or let someone else, not the place to discourage the next generation.

    My opinion completely, not trying to start a war over ladder techniques

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    Quote Originally Posted by CATruckie81 View Post
    Absolutely agree with that... at scene, in training is another story all together. Training is where we make muscle memory so that you can do exactly what you outlined in your recent post, Get the thing up! The fireground is not the time to address a deficiency.

    Whether you realize it or not, thats exactly why you did those same evolutions when you were being trained. For the young guys without the reps its not fair to tell them to simply "hit the gym," there is a lot of technique and fine tuning that can lead to a more efficient operation all the way around.

    By the way guys, you know this is the Probie House thread right? Is it right for there to be a Probie House thread and we are in here as the guys "providing advice" saying if you have to ask questions on the internet find another job? Come on guys, either help the guy out or let someone else, not the place to discourage the next generation.

    My opinion completely, not trying to start a war over ladder techniques
    Don't get me wrong. I am not against teaching and training. I do disagree though that there is "a lot of technique and fine tuning" that goes into carrying a ladder.

    I believe the point that some of us tried to make is that there is a certain "hands on" predisposition that most of us in the fire service have going into it. Things like thinking on your feet, problem solving, ability and experience working with tools (power and hand) are good traits for firefighters. I'm not saying you can't teach those things. But if you were not good with your hands you probably would not become a carpenter, so why become a firefighter? We've probably all seen kids out of college who have barely held a job come into the fire service. Compare them to the guy who worked construction or came out of the military. The hands on guy has a huge head start that may never be overcome.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CATruckie81 View Post
    Absolutely agree with that... at scene, in training is another story all together. Training is where we make muscle memory so that you can do exactly what you outlined in your recent post, Get the thing up! The fireground is not the time to address a deficiency.

    Whether you realize it or not, thats exactly why you did those same evolutions when you were being trained. For the young guys without the reps its not fair to tell them to simply "hit the gym," there is a lot of technique and fine tuning that can lead to a more efficient operation all the way around.

    By the way guys, you know this is the Probie House thread right? Is it right for there to be a Probie House thread and we are in here as the guys "providing advice" saying if you have to ask questions on the internet find another job? Come on guys, either help the guy out or let someone else, not the place to discourage the next generation.

    My opinion completely, not trying to start a war over ladder techniques
    I am not picking on the rookies, I have been a training officer since 1991 -My outlook on it is-if by the time you turn 18 you haven't become some what proficient in the simple basic" hands on" tasks such as raising a ladder, spending time on the internet "dissecting" it is just going to give you information that is useless unless you have a "knowledge base" to build on. - there's a old joke about someone letting their car roll down the mountain when they were changing a flat. punch line is "but I did exactly like you told me --I put a big rock BEHIND the wheel"
    ?

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    Didn't realize this thread resumed.

    Originally this was just about the training side of things, but as was mentioned in reality it's not about form, but rather that the job gets done. Someone explained it to me just as Jak put 'if you can't carry it, then drag it' since while in training yea you have to do it 'right' in reality nothing is ever perfect. We actually experimented with the single person 35ft raise... you just have to drag it, and it's a B to put up, but it is doable.

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