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Thread: Long Lines

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    Default Long Lines

    What is everyones opionon or tactics for stretching long hand lines?

    for example: strecthing long to cover side charlie of a middle of the group townhome or apartment.
    or just to reach homes that may not sit close to road or driveway

    The way i see it is that there are to options...

    stretch 2 1/2 or 3 inch with a wye. bring attack hose with you (150' of 1 3/4)

    or

    stretch a 300-400ft attack line (2 1/2 reduced down to 1 3/4)

    what is your prefered method and why

    Thanks


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    Forum Member FWDbuff's Avatar
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    If accessible by way of an alleyway or some other means, assign an engine company to the rear. Done.

    If an engine company on the A side is assigned the C side, force an adjacent apartment and run the line straight through. You have to check for extension anyways, so kill two birds with one stone.

    But if you do have to stretch a long lay, then yes....3" and wye it down using the standpipe pack.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    The con to using 3" and a wye is pressure.
    you cant flow a 1 3/4 and a 2 1/2 off the wye because of varrying pressure required
    also you cant flow (2) 1 3/4 lines, one with a smooth bore and the other an automatic nozzle because of varrying nozzle pressures

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    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwat View Post
    The con to using 3" and a wye is pressure.
    you cant flow a 1 3/4 and a 2 1/2 off the wye because of varrying pressure required
    also you cant flow (2) 1 3/4 lines, one with a smooth bore and the other an automatic nozzle because of varrying nozzle pressures
    Frankly, your premise isn't well thought out. Why would an engine positioned on the A side of the building be required to hand stretch a 300 to 400 foot attack line to the C side. As mentioned above I would reposition the rig for an easier lay or assign that task to another incoming rig if I was already committed to that position.

    Secondly, you suggest a large line with a wye or a single 2 1/2 reduced to a single 1 3/4 inch line. You discounted the response with a 3 inch line and a wye talking about different types of nozzles when anyone that understands hydraulics knows you should run the same length lines and nozzles types from a wye. What is the advantage to you plan of a single 2 1/2 reduced down? If you need a second line in your scenario then you have to hand stretch a second 2 1/2 and bring a second 1 3/4 inch line to operate.

    We use an apartment line set-up with 500 feet of 3 inch hose with 100 feet of 2 inch connected to a wye. We can flow 200 gpm out of each 2 inch line, even if we make them both 200 feet, and only have an engine pressure of around 200 psi if we empty the bed. A totally workable scenario.

    Now what is the answer you want? Beczuse it seems you have an agenda.
    Last edited by FyredUp; 11-14-2013 at 09:22 PM.
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    i never mentioned parking on side A and stretching to Charlie. The scenario was having to stretch down a back alley of MOG townhome or apt.

    The way i understand is that there are only two options; the 3" to the wye OR a single 2 1/2 reduced to a single 1 3/4. I was stating the specific negative to the 3" to the wye method or having to have matching handlines coming off the wye.

    how do you control what the next company hooks in with, and when the fire is more than 1 3/4 can handle, how do you adjust?

    I personnaly like the 3" to the wye method, however i am trying to clear up some confusion and find best tactics

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    How about you find a parking lot -take the engine and try several stretches and see what works best for your departments strategy and tactics ? We have 3" dry load with a wye and a hydrant bag with 100 ft of 1-3/4" in it, our bumper line also has 100ft of 1-3/4" in a hirise type load.
    ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cwat View Post
    The way i understand is that there are only two options; the 3" to the wye OR a single 2 1/2 reduced to a single 1 3/4. I was stating the specific negative to the 3" to the wye method or having to have matching handlines coming off the wye.
    Your imagination is your limit, there aren't only two options. You could do a 400' preconnect of all 1.75" hose, 2.5" to a gated wye, etc. Don't be afraid to think outside the box and identify a method that would work for you.

    how do you control what the next company hooks in with
    Advise them by radio or face-to-face of what your layout is, and tell them to bring a high-rise pack with a matching nozzle.

    and when the fire is more than 1 3/4 can handle, how do you adjust?
    Have next arriving companies (or unassigned personnel) stretch a larger caliber handline to you. Consider using a BlitzFire, RAM, or other portable master stream device.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwat View Post
    The con to using 3" and a wye is pressure.
    you cant flow a 1 3/4 and a 2 1/2 off the wye because of varrying pressure required
    also you cant flow (2) 1 3/4 lines, one with a smooth bore and the other an automatic nozzle because of varrying nozzle pressures
    What is this "automatic nozzle" thing you speak of?
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    What is this "automatic nozzle" thing you speak of?
    It's an appliance you place on the end of a hoseline, where when you pull back on the bail water usually comes out(150gallons of it!). Turn right for a tight straight stream or left for wide fog. May also be called Fog nozzle, Constant flow, automatic, etc...

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    Quote Originally Posted by cwat View Post
    It's an appliance you place on the end of a hoseline, where when you pull back on the bail water usually comes out(150gallons of it!). Turn right for a tight straight stream or left for wide fog. May also be called Fog nozzle, Constant flow, automatic, etc...
    Just out of curiosity ----honestly ---how long have you been in the fire service ???????????????
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    ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    Just out of curiosity ----honestly ---how long have you been in the fire service ???????????????
    UH OH SCOOBIE! I hear "JAWS" music.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cwat View Post
    It's an appliance you place on the end of a hoseline, where when you pull back on the bail water usually comes out(150gallons of it!). Turn right for a tight straight stream or left for wide fog. May also be called Fog nozzle, Constant flow, automatic, etc...
    Dude, just incase in your oblivious state you didn't get it, FWDbuff was busting your balls. There are VERY few fans of automatic nozzles on here. By the way how do you know that 150 gallons comes out of your automatic nozzle? Ayone ever done flow testing?
    Last edited by FyredUp; 11-14-2013 at 09:43 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwat View Post
    i never mentioned parking on side A and stretching to Charlie. The scenario was having to stretch down a back alley of MOG townhome or apt.

    My mistake.

    The way i understand is that there are only two options; the 3" to the wye OR a single 2 1/2 reduced to a single 1 3/4. I was stating the specific negative to the 3" to the wye method or having to have matching handlines coming off the wye.

    Why wouldn't you have matching handlines coming off the wye? Besides the attached bundle we have another 100 foot bundle of 2 inch on the rig that can easily be taken to the wye and attached. Actually your idea that there is only those two options is very wrong, you could hook a 2 1/2 inch wye to your 3 inch line and feed 2 - 2 1/2 if you desired. If both 2 1/2 inch lines had 1 1/8 inch tips this is easily done out to the 400 feet you mention.

    FL in 400 feet of 3 inch flowing 530 gpm 90 psi
    FL in 200 feet of 2 1/2 flowing 265 gpm 28 psi
    FL in the wye 10 psi
    Nozzle pressure for a 1 1/8 inch smoothbore flowing 265 gpm 50 psi

    Add it all up and you get 178 psi engine pressure with a flow of 530 gpm going on your fire.

    Thinking outside the box is old fashioned. Kick the sides of the box down, set it on fire, and build your own way to operate.


    how do you control what the next company hooks in with, and when the fire is more than 1 3/4 can handle, how do you adjust?

    Tell them to report to your engine and pick up the matching hose bundle and nozzle. See, it really doesn't have to be rocket science.

    I personnaly like the 3" to the wye method, however i am trying to clear up some confusion and find best tactics

    First of all, dump the automatic nozzles and go to either smoth bores or low pressure combination nozzles. Secondly, listen to what people with more years in the fire service than you probably have alive are telling you. Thirdly, experiment with the equipment you have and find the best option.
    Good luck.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwat View Post
    It's an appliance you place on the end of a hoseline, where when you pull back on the bail water usually comes out(150gallons of it!). Turn right for a tight straight stream or left for wide fog. May also be called Fog nozzle, Constant flow, automatic, etc...
    Ohhhhhhhh I see......You mean the complete pieces of schit that we keep waaaaay in the backs of our compartments that have not seen the light of day since the last equipment inventory?
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Ohhhhhhhh I see......You mean the complete pieces of schit that we keep waaaaay in the backs of our compartments that have not seen the light of day since the last equipment inventory?
    Seriously, can you explain your feelings a little more clearly? I am unsure where you stand.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Seriously, can you explain your feelings a little more clearly? I am unsure where you stand.
    Fog nozzles <----- useless
    Fog nozzles <----- crap
    Fog nozzles <----- garbage
    FWDbuff <----- Has no time for fog nozzles
    Fog nozzles <----- should be melted down into blobs of molten goo

    Does this help?
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    I like fog nozzles.

    Fog nozzles have their place and their applications, and in some cases are far superior to smooth-bores.

    Smooth-bores have their place and in some applications, may be superior to fog nozzles.

    Both should be carried on the apparatus and both should be used, depending on the circumstances.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 11-15-2013 at 08:45 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Fog nozzles have their place and their applications, and in some cases are far superior to smooth-bores.

    Smooth-bores have their place and in some applications, may be superior to fog nozzles.

    Both should be carried on the apparatus and both should be used, depending on the circumstances.
    For once, I agree with LAFE.

    I like the fact that both of my engines have both fixed gallonage fogs, as well as smooth bores, preconnected to allow for quick nozzle selection depending on the fire and/or officers preference.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    For once, I agree with LAFE.

    I like the fact that both of my engines have both fixed gallonage fogs, as well as smooth bores, preconnected to allow for quick nozzle selection depending on the fire and/or officers preference.
    Man, I thought I felt the Earth shudder...
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Man, I thought I felt the Earth shudder...
    Hell froze over when you met LAFE... BoxAlarm 187 agrees with him...

    Maybe the guy walking down the street with "Repent! the end is near" sign is right!
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