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Thread: Helmets: Suggestions?

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    Default Helmets: Suggestions?

    Alright, I know I am probably going to get flame-broiled for this one, however I was wondering if the general population might be able to point me in the direction of a good helmet-- don't worry I will wait until next week to ask about a good light bar...

    At my department we are given the opportunity to use a personal helmet (actually we can have any of our own gear we want), it just has to meet atleast OSHA standards (I would say NFPA but I know many don't meet that!) Now I agree on using what is issued, however the standard issue one I cannot keep on my head... literally, it falls off no matter how much I crank down the ratchet and tighten the chinstrap... We have some Morning Pride ones, circa 1992 (before I was born, if that makes you feel old... ) but there is a reason none of the guys actually use it...

    Now I know there is that whole leather versus composite, vs plastic argument so lets just avoid that whole one... I am really only looking at design! Aka keeping it on my head... I love tradition, but it does me no good if I can't crawl without losing my lid...

    I am going to poke the dragon here, but those Euro helmets caught my eye (Dräger, Gallet,etc). Are any being marketed in the USA yet? And if so are they compatible with SCOTT masks (especially the mask-to-helmet connection bit)?

    Alright I know I may catch some flak here, since it is rather wankerish of a topic, but maybe a few of you can point me in a good direction...


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    Check out Phenix (only way to go in my book) or the Cairns 880 Chicago. 2 fairly traditional helmets, 2 different price ranges. Not a fan of the European helmets. At all.

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    Our dept issed us Morning Pride traditionals. They suck! They fall apart, fit wrong, etc.
    Most of us have bought our own. All traditional helmets, all black, but leather, plastic and make are the only real differences. I personally love my Cairns 1044. The 1010 is the same just with a gloss finish. Almost all of us have them. My suggestion is go to a store and try a few on. Find one that's comfortable for you and still meets your dept criteria.
    Hope this helps.

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    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    If your Department allows you to wear non NFPA helmets....well.....I'd find another department. Get hurt....you will quickly find OSHA and NFPA are extremely significant initials.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    NFPA yeah they are important, but ultimately not all their decrees are practical.. OSHA on the other hand is more practical in that it says 'Well you need to do this, but there are many situations that are extraordinary when it comes to Firefighting so that may not always be the case...'

    That is probably what they are, MP Traditionals. Any recommendations on an actual brick and mortar store? I haven't seen to many stores in the local mall that carry fire helmets... lol!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highschoolvolunteer View Post
    Any recommendations on an actual brick and mortar store? I haven't seen to many stores in the local mall that carry fire helmets... lol!
    Our local uniform shop (owned and operated by one of our firefighters) sells turnout gear. Check around your area. You may have one too. Aside from that, I've gone to the FireStore in PA and I'm sure they aren't the only online store that has a brick and mortar. When I go on vacations, I look around to see if I find a shop near where I'm going and pay them a visit.

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    Thank you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highschoolvolunteer View Post
    NFPA yeah they are important, but ultimately not all their decrees are practical.. OSHA on the other hand is more practical in that it says 'Well you need to do this, but there are many situations that are extraordinary when it comes to Firefighting so that may not always be the case...'

    That is probably what they are, MP Traditionals. Any recommendations on an actual brick and mortar store? I haven't seen to many stores in the local mall that carry fire helmets... lol!
    I would check to see if your community, or state has adopted any NFPA standards before you dismiss them out of hand. Wisconsin has adopted, as administrative code several NFPA standards including the one covering PPE and helmets. You assume 100% of the liability if you are an NFPA state or community and you ignore that.
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    There are states that DON'T require NFPA gear?! Which ones? I will surely avoid them! I may not practice every safety measure, but my gear is up to standards for my own safety. I think the only thing I use that's iffy is my old 880 that I use for brush fires. And even that is still technically NFPA 1971.

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    We're not required to be NFPA complaint-- we opt to be for many things.

    Heres the thing: I am not dismissing NFPA, only some of their newest revisions. Safety is one of my primary concerns.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highschoolvolunteer View Post
    We're not required to be NFPA complaint-- we opt to be for many things.

    Heres the thing: I am not dismissing NFPA, only some of their newest revisions. Safety is one of my primary concerns.
    There are no new revisions to NFPA that make a helmet or PPE meeting NFPA undesirable. All of the gear I currently use on both of my POC FDs and as an instructor for 2 tech colleges meet NFPA. Frankly, I can't see any chief not requiring that even if their state is not an "NFPA State." Because NFPA is a recognized national standards making organization it is hard to avoid scrutiny over why equipment did not meet NFPA in the advent of some type of mishap leading to injury or death.

    Remind me again how long you have been on the fire service? Because these 2 sentences, especially in regards to PPE don't jive at all.
    Heres the thing: I am not dismissing NFPA, only some of their newest revisions. Safety is one of my primary concerns.
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    Not sure what the issue is you are having with the Morning Pride Traditionals. I am on my second one that I use for teaching at the tech school and they have been good helmets. Fit me nice and are comfortable to wear. They are Ben II's.

    Just in case anyone was wondering the reason I am on number 2 is the tech college decided my first one was too "seasoned." It was originally a white helmet and it is black, the Bourkes are melted the tets are fried and it simply will not clean up anymore. They felt it projected a negative image so BAM, away it went.
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    I was looking at fire helmets and with the Cairns 1010, and with goggles only it is NFPA approved, with the "defender" visor it is NFPA, but with goggles AND bourkes or defender AND bourkes its is not approved. is the NFPA approved any safer? No. It is the exact same helmet with all protective features but it also has 1 extra item on it, due to the 2013 edition of the NFPA standards. Not For Practical Application.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhode House View Post
    I was looking at fire helmets and with the Cairns 1010, and with goggles only it is NFPA approved, with the "defender" visor it is NFPA, but with goggles AND bourkes or defender AND bourkes its is not approved. is the NFPA approved any safer? No. It is the exact same helmet with all protective features but it also has 1 extra item on it, due to the 2013 edition of the NFPA standards. Not For Practical Application.
    I think you need to go back and reread that section of the MSA/Cairns catalog because I 100% diagree with what you are saying. IF you ONLY have Bourkes you are not compliant. IF you have the Defender eye protection, or goggles, and Bourkes you would be compliant. Frankly, other than the coolness looking factor Bourkes are worthless as tits on a boar anyways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    I think you need to go back and reread that section of the MSA/Cairns catalog because I 100% diagree with what you are saying. IF you ONLY have Bourkes you are not compliant. IF you have the Defender eye protection, or goggles, and Bourkes you would be compliant. Frankly, other than the coolness looking factor Bourkes are worthless as tits on a boar anyways.

    How long have you been in the fire service?
    Nope, new for 2013 if it has bourkes at all it isn't NFPA.

    Effective 8/30/2013 Cairns/MSA helmets manufactured with Defender & Bourke combinations will no longer come with an NFPA sticker as this combination does not meet the 2013 NFPA standard.

    http://www.thefirestore.com/store/pr...met-NFPA-OSHA/
    In other words adding bourkes to an otherwise compliant helmet renders it non-compliant.

    I've been doing EMS side for a year and a half, just finished my Fire I.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhode House View Post
    Nope, new for 2013 if it has bourkes at all it isn't NFPA.



    In other words adding bourkes to an otherwise compliant helmet renders it non-compliant.

    I've been doing EMS side for a year and a half, just finished my Fire I.
    Well then, that seems like a great reason to stop wasting between $42 and $65 for mostly worthless, and now destroying NFPA compliance, Bourkes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Well then, that seems like a great reason to stop wasting between $42 and $65 for mostly worthless, and now destroying NFPA compliance, Bourkes.
    I knd of like the traditional look, but I can see both sides of the argument

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    The traditional helmet has been around a heck of alot longer than the Bourke eye shield.
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    I have two traditional helmets a cairns 880 Chicago and a Phenix TL2 leather. I like both the phenix is by far the most comfortable I have ever worn. That being said they both are definitely in different price ranges.

    Now to NFPA, do I agree with some standards NFPA puts out? absolutely I think some are great. I also believe some of their standard are ridiculous and they are treated like the word of god by the safety Nazis.

    With that being said both of my helmets do not meet NFPA standards, because I do not have eye protection on them. I don't have bourkes either. I don't want the extra weight or price for something I will never use, just for a sticker. I do have a pair of safety glasses in my pocket provided for free by the department. I could go on and on about my gripes with NFPA but I am sure many have the same feelings and would rather not hear my opinions.
    Last edited by Snarff; 11-25-2013 at 03:41 PM.

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    When I bought my 1044, it had an NFPA sticker on it. I have the "for looks only" Bourkes and defender shield. Does that mean that due to a back door compliance change, my 5 yr old helmet is non-compliant?
    Also what about the newer, bigger, supposedly NFPA compliant, Bourkes? I was unaware of any of the new changes. I'm not being a dick, I'm honestly curious.

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