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    Quote Originally Posted by devinZ71 View Post
    Well I asked my chief today and he said yeah I can have a radio. So **** you bro
    This is exactly why having Junior Squirrels are a bad idea. When you out grow your Ninja Turtles underwear Skippy, maybe then you can be a real fireman.

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    Hmmmmm...........
    The fire service is about service to our fellow man.
    There is a trust that must not be broken and we are the keepers of that trust.
    Captain Dave LeBlanc

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    This is exactly why having Junior Squirrels are a bad idea. When you out grow your Ninja Turtles underwear Skippy, maybe then you can be a real fireman.
    I have to say I laughed out loud at this post.

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    My bet is our young "friend" won't be back...
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    Maybe not: but there a hundred other juvenile know it alls out there waiting to take his place.

    By the way spanky.::: pull that crapp on the job and one of the old timers will shove your newly purchased radio right up yer arse
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    Quote Originally Posted by devinZ71 View Post
    Well I asked my chief today and he said yeah I can have a radio. So **** you bro
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    Thanks guys for some great laughs!!
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    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

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    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF View Post
    Well, your chief can do whatever he wants to do, but there is no valid reason for a junior to have a radio.
    Disagree, depending on the department.

    Our juniors are issued radios.

    It's not uncommon for them to be first in at a fire, MVC or EMS, all of which they are allowed to run. Having a radio gives them the ability to provide an initial size up and give us an idea of what resources we will need. In addition it gives them the ability to communicate with command at incidents if they are given a task.

    My disagreement with this poster having a radio was that it appeared that the Chief did not want him to have one. Apparently that was not the case.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Thanks guys for some great laughs!!
    My chief said none of that was funny so %&@# you bro.
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Disagree, depending on the department.

    Our juniors are issued radios.

    It's not uncommon for them to be first in at a fire, MVC or EMS, all of which they are allowed to run. Having a radio gives them the ability to provide an initial size up and give us an idea of what resources we will need. In addition it gives them the ability to communicate with command at incidents if they are given a task.

    My disagreement with this poster having a radio was that it appeared that the Chief did not want him to have one. Apparently that was not the case.
    Here in Kentucky, juniors can't be on the scene. Letting them do it is a good reason to bid farewell to your testiballs.

    And even if they let them, I wouldn't dream of allowing one to go to a scene in a POV. Imagine a kid whose license is still warm from the DMV laminator knowing he's half a mile from a hot one and will be first on scene. Bad combination.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF View Post
    Here in Kentucky, juniors can't be on the scene. Letting them do it is a good reason to bid farewell to your testiballs.

    And even if they let them, I wouldn't dream of allowing one to go to a scene in a POV. Imagine a kid whose license is still warm from the DMV laminator knowing he's half a mile from a hot one and will be first on scene. Bad combination.
    Great points and additionally I dont want initial size-up left to a teenager. Most teenagers I know can't be trusted to pick up their shoes let alone assess fire conditions or injuries, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FF-Andy View Post
    Great points and additionally I dont want initial size-up left to a teenager. Most teenagers I know can't be trusted to pick up their shoes let alone assess fire conditions or injuries, etc.
    Immaturity issues notwithstanding (there are some equally immature 30-year-olds), there are programs in which the juniors (or Explorers) actually do get a sound base of training and mentoring and are worthy of trust. I would opine that if you heard one of that type giving a size-up on the scanner, you wouldn't know the difference.

    It depends on the overall culture of a given department and its juniors.

    And there are 40-year-olds who shouldn't be let near a radio.

    The OP does appear to need an attitude adjustment.

    As an aside, I ran a call on the river a few years ago whilst a guest on a neighboring FD's fireboat. The call involved a boat that had struck a shoal and was taking on water. The Coast Guard showed up. They were professional and enthusiastic - but if they hadn't been wearing uniforms, I might have mistaken them for a boatload of kids from the local high school... They were that young.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Disagree, depending on the department.

    Our juniors are issued radios.

    It's not uncommon for them to be first in at a fire, MVC or EMS, all of which they are allowed to run. Having a radio gives them the ability to provide an initial size up and give us an idea of what resources we will need. In addition it gives them the ability to communicate with command at incidents if they are given a task.

    My disagreement with this poster having a radio was that it appeared that the Chief did not want him to have one. Apparently that was not the case.
    How idiotic is this line of thinking? Seriously, you have stated your FD would PUNISH people for acting on their own outside of your district yet you would give this responsibility to a teenager responding in their own car? Are you guys insane? Who would have the ability to make a more mature decision? An adult firefighter outside of your district or a some teenager whose adrenaline is gong 50,000 miles an hour? Where is that teenagers knowledge in building construction, fire behavior and so on to even begin to make a proper size-up? Other than saying "YUP, she's a burnin."

    I will go on record once again adamantly opposing juniors responding to emergency scenes at al, but if they do, especially oppose them responding in their POV. This is a disaster just waiting for the right time to occur..
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    Quote Originally Posted by tree68 View Post
    Immaturity issues notwithstanding (there are some equally immature 30-year-olds), there are programs in which the juniors (or Explorers) actually do get a sound base of training and mentoring and are worthy of trust. I would opine that if you heard one of that type giving a size-up on the scanner, you wouldn't know the difference.

    It depends on the overall culture of a given department and its juniors.

    And there are 40-year-olds who shouldn't be let near a radio.

    The OP does appear to need an attitude adjustment.

    As an aside, I ran a call on the river a few years ago whilst a guest on a neighboring FD's fireboat. The call involved a boat that had struck a shoal and was taking on water. The Coast Guard showed up. They were professional and enthusiastic - but if they hadn't been wearing uniforms, I might have mistaken them for a boatload of kids from the local high school... They were that young.
    Of course there will always be idiots that even as an adult shouldn't have a radio, but the odds of some teenager either doing something stupid, or wrong, are much higher because of their age and experience.

    My bet is those Coast Guardsman weren't really that young as much as you are getting older and young adults appear younger every year. That has occurred to me. there is a police officer in the neighboring town that if I saw him in street clothes I would say is 16 or 17 years old. In reality he is in his early 20's.

    The OP is just another example of today's youth who have an entitlement mentality.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    My chief said none of that was funny so %&@# you bro.
    Har de har har!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by devinZ71 View Post
    Well I asked my chief today and he said yeah I can have a radio. So **** you bro
    Wow.......This made me LOL.....I predict this kid's fire service career will equate to nothing more than a flash in the pan.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    How idiotic is this line of thinking? Seriously, you have stated your FD would PUNISH people for acting on their own outside of your district yet you would give this responsibility to a teenager responding in their own car? Are you guys insane? Who would have the ability to make a more mature decision? An adult firefighter outside of your district or a some teenager whose adrenaline is gong 50,000 miles an hour? Where is that teenagers knowledge in building construction, fire behavior and so on to even begin to make a proper size-up? Other than saying "YUP, she's a burnin."

    I will go on record once again adamantly opposing juniors responding to emergency scenes at al, but if they do, especially oppose them responding in their POV. This is a disaster just waiting for the right time to occur..
    Initial windshield size-up really isn't that difficult .....

    Fire showing? Smoke showing? Number of vehicles and if folks are still inside for MVC's? Approx. size of fire for brush incidents and wind conditions?

    Isn't that tough to determine if it's a mobile home or a site built home.

    Nothing complicated but some basic info that let's the duty Chief or Officer know if he needs to think about keeping everybody coming, slow them down, cancel some units or possibly ask for a second page or mutual aid.

    And we have had far more accidents responding with our adults than our juniors ... Which has been zero in the 11 years I have been here. (By the way, they don't get light privileges until they turn 18)

    Our juniors sit through the same size-up classes as our adults and basically perform the same skills during training. Honestly I can think of several juniors that have passed through here (several who were hired as career members within a year of turning 18) who could give a far better size-up than many of our adult members. And they could make some pretty rational decisions on scene.

    It works for us. And also worked pretty well for my previous VFD in VT (where everybody did respond to the station).
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Initial windshield size-up really isn't that difficult .....

    Yeah it's a piece of cake doing a proper size up...

    Fire showing? Smoke showing? Number of vehicles and if folks are still inside for MVC's? Approx. size of fire for brush incidents and wind conditions?

    Right, some kid that just drove himself to a fire call is going to be calm enough and rational enough to do a size up. Essentially you are agreeing with what I said earlier..."Yup, its a burnin!"

    Isn't that tough to determine if it's a mobile home or a site built home.

    How about a modular home? Approximate age for building construction style?

    Nothing complicated but some basic info that let's the duty Chief or Officer know if he needs to think about keeping everybody coming, slow them down, cancel some units or possibly ask for a second page or mutual aid.

    Now I know you are completely off your rocker, out of your mind, insane. You are going to go off the judgement of a JUNIOR on whether to slow down or cancel units en route? Are you phucking kidding me?

    And we have had far more accidents responding with our adults than our juniors ... Which has been zero in the 11 years I have been here. (By the way, they don't get light privileges until they turn 18)

    Good for you.

    Our juniors sit through the same size-up classes as our adults and basically perform the same skills during training. Honestly I can think of several juniors that have passed through here (several who were hired as career members within a year of turning 18) who could give a far better size-up than many of our adult members. And they could make some pretty rational decisions on scene.

    Doesn't speak very highly of your training of your regular FD members if new kids are kicking their butts in ANY area. I see this as a black mark on your training program not something to brag about.

    It works for us. And also worked pretty well for my previous VFD in VT (where everybody did respond to the station).

    You will NEVER get me to agree juniors should be responding hot to emergency scenes, or at all really.
    I just see you as wrong as wrong can be here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by devinZ71 View Post
    Well I asked my chief today and he said yeah I can have a radio. So **** you bro
    Another 17 year old punk with an entitlement attitude... just what the fire service needs...
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    Quote Originally Posted by FF-Andy View Post
    Great points and additionally I dont want initial size-up left to a teenager. Most teenagers I know can't be trusted to pick up their shoes let alone assess fire conditions or injuries, etc.
    Yeah, a junior racing to a scene in a POV giving a size up at an active incident? I would not be able to sleep at night. Impatient junior standing alone at a bad scene could equal disaster.
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    LA you never cease to amaze me --you let the "size up" of a junior firefighter determine in any way your response ? Just because some one sat through a "size up" class doesn't mean they have the knowledge or experience to change your response.
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    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    Yeah, a junior racing to a scene in a POV giving a size up at an active incident? I would not be able to sleep at night. Impatient junior standing alone at a bad scene could equal disaster.
    No kidding -a "bullet proof" kid shifting into the "hero mode" all alone --
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    Another 17 year old punk with an entitlement attitude... just what the fire service needs...
    Do you suppose the Chief is yelling or does he have his computer set on bold accidentally again?
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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    LA you never cease to amaze me --you let the "size up" of a junior firefighter determine in any way your response ? Just because some one sat through a "size up" class doesn't mean they have the knowledge or experience to change your response.
    No smoke showing. No fire showing.

    Maybe I'll slow down or even cancel that 3rd due engine coming from the other side of the district.

    Everybody is out of the cars.

    Probably a good idea to keep the rescue and closest engine coming but not a bad idea cancel that engine with a second set of tools.

    A quick windshield size-up can give you some basic information which can lead to some pretty easy decisions.
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    Yeah it's a piece of cake doing a proper size up...

    Not asking for detailed size-up associated with command decisions. Just a quick sentence about what he/she sees from the windshield.

    Right, some kid that just drove himself to a fire call is going to be calm enough and rational enough to do a size up. Essentially you are agreeing with what I said earlier..."Yup, its a burnin!"

    Pretty much that's all we ask from any of our non-officers when they arrive on scene .... a quick description in 5 - 10 words.

    How about a modular home? Approximate age for building construction style?

    That's something for the first-in officer or senior man to look at, not a typical firefighter. Not part of our initial windshield report.


    Now I know you are completely off your rocker, out of your mind, insane. You are going to go off the judgement of a JUNIOR on whether to slow down or cancel units en route? Are you phucking kidding me?

    If anybody tells me that i no visible smoke or fire, yes, i will downgrade the second or third due engine or may hold my second tanker at the station. It's called risk management.

    A junior can tell me if he sees smoke or fire.

    If somebody can tell me that everybody is out of the cars at an MVA I will cancel my second set of tools. In fact I'll probably cancel my first set of tools and just have the engine roll in to assist EMS.

    A junior can tell me if everybody is out of the car and can ask LE how many folks are complaining of injuries.

    Again, I will get trucks off the road if the initial report tells me I likely don't need them.

    .

    Our juniors sit through the same size-up classes as our adults and basically perform the same skills during training. Honestly I can think of several juniors that have passed through here (several who were hired as career members within a year of turning 18) who could give a far better size-up than many of our adult members. And they could make some pretty rational decisions on scene.

    Doesn't speak very highly of your training of your regular FD members if new kids are kicking their butts in ANY area. I see this as a black mark on your training program not something to brag about.

    Not really.

    Many of our juniors are pretty sharp. And again, we not asking them to identify building construction or the type of cars. Just what they see in the first 10 seconds from inside the vehicle.


    It works for us. And also worked pretty well for my previous VFD in VT (where everybody did respond to the station).

    You will NEVER get me to agree juniors should be responding hot to emergency scenes, or at all really.

    And you'll never get me to agree that well trained and supervised juniors should never NOT be a part of the response.

    And they are not allowed to respond hot, unless they are riding in a department apparatus.


    I guess we'll just have to disagree, just like we disagree on the critical role of trained exterior firefighters and driver-only members.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 11-21-2013 at 10:05 PM.
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