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Thread: Junior Firefighter with radio

  1. #41
    Forum Member FWDbuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by devinZ71 View Post
    Well I asked my chief today and he said yeah I can have a radio. So **** you bro
    Wow.......This made me LOL.....I predict this kid's fire service career will equate to nothing more than a flash in the pan.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    How idiotic is this line of thinking? Seriously, you have stated your FD would PUNISH people for acting on their own outside of your district yet you would give this responsibility to a teenager responding in their own car? Are you guys insane? Who would have the ability to make a more mature decision? An adult firefighter outside of your district or a some teenager whose adrenaline is gong 50,000 miles an hour? Where is that teenagers knowledge in building construction, fire behavior and so on to even begin to make a proper size-up? Other than saying "YUP, she's a burnin."

    I will go on record once again adamantly opposing juniors responding to emergency scenes at al, but if they do, especially oppose them responding in their POV. This is a disaster just waiting for the right time to occur..
    Initial windshield size-up really isn't that difficult .....

    Fire showing? Smoke showing? Number of vehicles and if folks are still inside for MVC's? Approx. size of fire for brush incidents and wind conditions?

    Isn't that tough to determine if it's a mobile home or a site built home.

    Nothing complicated but some basic info that let's the duty Chief or Officer know if he needs to think about keeping everybody coming, slow them down, cancel some units or possibly ask for a second page or mutual aid.

    And we have had far more accidents responding with our adults than our juniors ... Which has been zero in the 11 years I have been here. (By the way, they don't get light privileges until they turn 18)

    Our juniors sit through the same size-up classes as our adults and basically perform the same skills during training. Honestly I can think of several juniors that have passed through here (several who were hired as career members within a year of turning 18) who could give a far better size-up than many of our adult members. And they could make some pretty rational decisions on scene.

    It works for us. And also worked pretty well for my previous VFD in VT (where everybody did respond to the station).
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  3. #43
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Initial windshield size-up really isn't that difficult .....

    Yeah it's a piece of cake doing a proper size up...

    Fire showing? Smoke showing? Number of vehicles and if folks are still inside for MVC's? Approx. size of fire for brush incidents and wind conditions?

    Right, some kid that just drove himself to a fire call is going to be calm enough and rational enough to do a size up. Essentially you are agreeing with what I said earlier..."Yup, its a burnin!"

    Isn't that tough to determine if it's a mobile home or a site built home.

    How about a modular home? Approximate age for building construction style?

    Nothing complicated but some basic info that let's the duty Chief or Officer know if he needs to think about keeping everybody coming, slow them down, cancel some units or possibly ask for a second page or mutual aid.

    Now I know you are completely off your rocker, out of your mind, insane. You are going to go off the judgement of a JUNIOR on whether to slow down or cancel units en route? Are you phucking kidding me?

    And we have had far more accidents responding with our adults than our juniors ... Which has been zero in the 11 years I have been here. (By the way, they don't get light privileges until they turn 18)

    Good for you.

    Our juniors sit through the same size-up classes as our adults and basically perform the same skills during training. Honestly I can think of several juniors that have passed through here (several who were hired as career members within a year of turning 18) who could give a far better size-up than many of our adult members. And they could make some pretty rational decisions on scene.

    Doesn't speak very highly of your training of your regular FD members if new kids are kicking their butts in ANY area. I see this as a black mark on your training program not something to brag about.

    It works for us. And also worked pretty well for my previous VFD in VT (where everybody did respond to the station).

    You will NEVER get me to agree juniors should be responding hot to emergency scenes, or at all really.
    I just see you as wrong as wrong can be here.
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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by devinZ71 View Post
    Well I asked my chief today and he said yeah I can have a radio. So **** you bro
    Another 17 year old punk with an entitlement attitude... just what the fire service needs...
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    Quote Originally Posted by FF-Andy View Post
    Great points and additionally I dont want initial size-up left to a teenager. Most teenagers I know can't be trusted to pick up their shoes let alone assess fire conditions or injuries, etc.
    Yeah, a junior racing to a scene in a POV giving a size up at an active incident? I would not be able to sleep at night. Impatient junior standing alone at a bad scene could equal disaster.
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    LA you never cease to amaze me --you let the "size up" of a junior firefighter determine in any way your response ? Just because some one sat through a "size up" class doesn't mean they have the knowledge or experience to change your response.
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    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    Yeah, a junior racing to a scene in a POV giving a size up at an active incident? I would not be able to sleep at night. Impatient junior standing alone at a bad scene could equal disaster.
    No kidding -a "bullet proof" kid shifting into the "hero mode" all alone --
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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    Another 17 year old punk with an entitlement attitude... just what the fire service needs...
    Do you suppose the Chief is yelling or does he have his computer set on bold accidentally again?
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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    LA you never cease to amaze me --you let the "size up" of a junior firefighter determine in any way your response ? Just because some one sat through a "size up" class doesn't mean they have the knowledge or experience to change your response.
    No smoke showing. No fire showing.

    Maybe I'll slow down or even cancel that 3rd due engine coming from the other side of the district.

    Everybody is out of the cars.

    Probably a good idea to keep the rescue and closest engine coming but not a bad idea cancel that engine with a second set of tools.

    A quick windshield size-up can give you some basic information which can lead to some pretty easy decisions.
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  10. #50
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    Yeah it's a piece of cake doing a proper size up...

    Not asking for detailed size-up associated with command decisions. Just a quick sentence about what he/she sees from the windshield.

    Right, some kid that just drove himself to a fire call is going to be calm enough and rational enough to do a size up. Essentially you are agreeing with what I said earlier..."Yup, its a burnin!"

    Pretty much that's all we ask from any of our non-officers when they arrive on scene .... a quick description in 5 - 10 words.

    How about a modular home? Approximate age for building construction style?

    That's something for the first-in officer or senior man to look at, not a typical firefighter. Not part of our initial windshield report.


    Now I know you are completely off your rocker, out of your mind, insane. You are going to go off the judgement of a JUNIOR on whether to slow down or cancel units en route? Are you phucking kidding me?

    If anybody tells me that i no visible smoke or fire, yes, i will downgrade the second or third due engine or may hold my second tanker at the station. It's called risk management.

    A junior can tell me if he sees smoke or fire.

    If somebody can tell me that everybody is out of the cars at an MVA I will cancel my second set of tools. In fact I'll probably cancel my first set of tools and just have the engine roll in to assist EMS.

    A junior can tell me if everybody is out of the car and can ask LE how many folks are complaining of injuries.

    Again, I will get trucks off the road if the initial report tells me I likely don't need them.

    .

    Our juniors sit through the same size-up classes as our adults and basically perform the same skills during training. Honestly I can think of several juniors that have passed through here (several who were hired as career members within a year of turning 18) who could give a far better size-up than many of our adult members. And they could make some pretty rational decisions on scene.

    Doesn't speak very highly of your training of your regular FD members if new kids are kicking their butts in ANY area. I see this as a black mark on your training program not something to brag about.

    Not really.

    Many of our juniors are pretty sharp. And again, we not asking them to identify building construction or the type of cars. Just what they see in the first 10 seconds from inside the vehicle.


    It works for us. And also worked pretty well for my previous VFD in VT (where everybody did respond to the station).

    You will NEVER get me to agree juniors should be responding hot to emergency scenes, or at all really.

    And you'll never get me to agree that well trained and supervised juniors should never NOT be a part of the response.

    And they are not allowed to respond hot, unless they are riding in a department apparatus.


    I guess we'll just have to disagree, just like we disagree on the critical role of trained exterior firefighters and driver-only members.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 11-21-2013 at 10:05 PM.
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  11. #51
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Yeah it's a piece of cake doing a proper size up...

    Not asking for detailed size-up associated with command decisions. Just a quick sentence about what he/she sees from the windshield.

    Which may mean jack squat and be totally wrong. Can they see the back of the building from their windshield out front?

    Right, some kid that just drove himself to a fire call is going to be calm enough and rational enough to do a size up. Essentially you are agreeing with what I said earlier..."Yup, its a burnin!"

    Pretty much that's all we ask from any of our non-officers when they arrive on scene .... a quick description in 5 - 10 words.

    Again, that may be totally worng based on what little they see.

    How about a modular home? Approximate age for building construction style?


    That's something for the first-in officer or senior man to look at, not a typical firefighter. Not part of our initial windshield report.


    YOU said they should know the type of home site built or trailer, if they know that why can't they say whether it is a modular or not?

    Now I know you are completely off your rocker, out of your mind, insane. You are going to go off the judgement of a JUNIOR on whether to slow down or cancel units en route? Are you phucking kidding me?

    If anybody tells me that i no visible smoke or fire, yes, i will downgrade the second or third due engine or may hold my second tanker at the station. It's called risk management.

    A junior can tell me if he sees smoke or fire.

    Sure because they are experts and can see a smoldering fire that hasn't broken out yet. Or fire that is only visible from the back. I am simply amazed at your ridiculousness. You can't trust your so called regular members to make a decision at a fire without an officer but you trust a junior to make judgements that have you cancelling responding units. That is just ridiculous.

    If somebody can tell me that everybody is out of the cars at an MVA I will cancel my second set of tools. In fact I'll probably cancel my first set of tools and just have the engine roll in to assist EMS.

    A junior can tell me if everybody is out of the car and can ask LE how many folks are complaining of injuries.

    Again, I will get trucks off the road if the initial report tells me I likely don't need them.

    Sorry I will never agree with some underage junior giving me info that I would use to cancel responding rigs.

    .

    Our juniors sit through the same size-up classes as our adults and basically perform the same skills during training. Honestly I can think of several juniors that have passed through here (several who were hired as career members within a year of turning 18) who could give a far better size-up than many of our adult members. And they could make some pretty rational decisions on scene.

    Doesn't speak very highly of your training of your regular FD members if new kids are kicking their butts in ANY area. I see this as a black mark on your training program not something to brag about.

    Not really.

    Many of our juniors are pretty sharp. And again, we not asking them to identify building construction or the type of cars. Just what they see in the first 10 seconds from inside the vehicle.


    I don't care how sharp they are they lack the skill, experience, training or maturity to be counted on for that critical of a duty at an emergency. Again, funny that in previous topics you have clearly stated your regular member don't have the skills to take leadership roles but you would place a junior in the position to determine on the cancelling of responding apparatus.

    It works for us. And also worked pretty well for my previous VFD in VT (where everybody did respond to the station).

    I suppose when your performance standard is only to burn down the original structure and not the entire town.

    You will NEVER get me to agree juniors should be responding hot to emergency scenes, or at all really.

    And you'll never get me to agree that well trained and supervised juniors should never NOT be a part of the response.

    You are wrong and using children to supplement your abysmal manpower shortage. When one dies or is seriously injured your house of cards will crumble.

    And they are not allowed to respond hot, unless they are riding in a department apparatus.

    Which they ABSOLUTELY should not be allowed to do.

    I guess we'll just have to disagree, just like we disagree on the critical role of trained exterior firefighters and driver-only members.
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    I find it interesting/amazing/ludicrous and sub 70 IQ that the Foghorn Leghorn of Safety on this board spends time defending using KIDS on the fire ground.

    And I'm still laughing about "Junior Squirrels"!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    My bet is those Coast Guardsman weren't really that young as much as you are getting older and young adults appear younger every year. That has occurred to me. there is a police officer in the neighboring town that if I saw him in street clothes I would say is 16 or 17 years old. In reality he is in his early 20's.
    Hell, he's younger than I am... He's a good guy and seems to be a good cop, but damn. lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by FF-Andy View Post
    I find it interesting/amazing/ludicrous and sub 70 IQ that the Foghorn Leghorn of Safety on this board spends time defending using KIDS on the fire ground.

    And I'm still laughing about "Junior Squirrels"!!!
    Now look, I say look here, boy. You're doin' it, I say you're doin' it all wrong!
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    Quote Originally Posted by FF-Andy View Post
    I find it interesting/amazing/ludicrous and sub 70 IQ that the Foghorn Leghorn of Safety on this board spends time defending using KIDS on the fire ground.

    And I'm still laughing about "Junior Squirrels"!!!
    Funny thing is that I have been a part of 2 departments where the juniors are trained, well supervised and yes, allowed to experience limited offensive experiences as junior members.

    And guess what? When they turn 18 they are fully prepared to step into the role of an offensive firefighter and contribute as such.

    Again, if you run a clean program that demands that juniors attend training, demonstrate cognitive knowledge and skills and participate in every aspect of the department's operations, I see no issues with juniors operating on the fireground.
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    Which may mean jack squat and be totally wrong. Can they see the back of the building from their windshield out front?

    And when they get out, and walk around they'll report that, but we have a policy where the first unit - member or apparatus gives a 10 word description of what these from inside the vehicle.

    A junior can easily give that report.



    Again, that may be totally worng based on what little they see.

    No different than the first adult member who may be totally wrong.

    YOU said they should know the type of home site built or trailer, if they know that why can't they say whether it is a modular or not?

    I would expect our officers to be able to make that distinction, but not necessarily one of our firefighters. And again, that's not necessarily a part of the windshield survey.

    It's an expectation as part of the initial officer's report however.



    Sure because they are experts and can see a smoldering fire that hasn't broken out yet. Or fire that is only visible from the back. I am simply amazed at your ridiculousness. You can't trust your so called regular members to make a decision at a fire without an officer but you trust a junior to make judgements that have you cancelling responding units. That is just ridiculous.

    First of all, the first member on-scene, junior or non-junior is not cancelling any units. They are simply providing information for the Duty Chief or Shift Captain to make decisions. That officer can do whatever he wishes with that.

    And again, this is called a windshield survey, and it's designed to give us some information as soon as a member arrives. That information can, is usually is added to or changed after a 360 has been conducted by the member.


    Sorry I will never agree with some underage junior giving me info that I would use to cancel responding rigs.

    And I have no issue in making decisions based on the report of a trained, competent junior member.


    I don't care how sharp they are they lack the skill, experience, training or maturity to be counted on for that critical of a duty at an emergency. Again, funny that in previous topics you have clearly stated your regular member don't have the skills to take leadership roles but you would place a junior in the position to determine on the cancelling of responding apparatus.

    Funny thing is many of our current juniors have more time on and more experience than many of our newer adult members.

    And again, juniors are not making decisions but simply providing information.



    You are wrong and using children to supplement your abysmal manpower shortage. When one dies or is seriously injured your house of cards will crumble.

    Actually we currently have no juniors in my VFD. This post is referring to the juniors in my combo department which averages over 20 volunteers per structural incident. And even with those very good response numbers, I still want my juniors involved in EMS, rescue and fireground operations
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    I remain glad that the one POC FD I am a member of that has a junior program does NOT allow juniors to respond to emergencies in any capacity. They are involved in training exercises ONLY. Others may disagree but I will NEVER support juniors being on an emergency scene.
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    I'm on the fence about Juniors running calls. In 11 years, our department has had 4, myself included. The first two of us worked hard, trained hard, and eventually got to participate in fireground activities up to and including going in to feed hose and overhaul. We're both enjoying our careers today. We've had a Junior over the past few years that I wouldn't trust to water my yard, let alone operate on the fireground. He recently got booted for his attitude. The most recent one is still too green to tell, as he's only been on the roster a few weeks. We'll get him oriented and start his training, and take it from there.
    It comes down to maturity. Some show it well and subsequently earn more privileges. Others have no business in the firehouse, let alone on a scene.

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    I just can't get past the fact that the serious injury, or death, of a junior operating at, or responding to, an emergency scene seems like such a heavy burden for the department to bear, as well as a public relations nightmare it just isn't worth it to me. I believe a strong junior program is vital to the future of some volunteer fire departments and getting them a taste of the training and firehouse life and comraderie is a good thing.
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    Boy don't check a thread for a few days and you think it is still about radio programming.

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