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Thread: Junior Firefighter with radio

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Yeah it's a piece of cake doing a proper size up...

    Not asking for detailed size-up associated with command decisions. Just a quick sentence about what he/she sees from the windshield.

    Which may mean jack squat and be totally wrong. Can they see the back of the building from their windshield out front?

    Right, some kid that just drove himself to a fire call is going to be calm enough and rational enough to do a size up. Essentially you are agreeing with what I said earlier..."Yup, its a burnin!"

    Pretty much that's all we ask from any of our non-officers when they arrive on scene .... a quick description in 5 - 10 words.

    Again, that may be totally worng based on what little they see.

    How about a modular home? Approximate age for building construction style?


    That's something for the first-in officer or senior man to look at, not a typical firefighter. Not part of our initial windshield report.


    YOU said they should know the type of home site built or trailer, if they know that why can't they say whether it is a modular or not?

    Now I know you are completely off your rocker, out of your mind, insane. You are going to go off the judgement of a JUNIOR on whether to slow down or cancel units en route? Are you phucking kidding me?

    If anybody tells me that i no visible smoke or fire, yes, i will downgrade the second or third due engine or may hold my second tanker at the station. It's called risk management.

    A junior can tell me if he sees smoke or fire.

    Sure because they are experts and can see a smoldering fire that hasn't broken out yet. Or fire that is only visible from the back. I am simply amazed at your ridiculousness. You can't trust your so called regular members to make a decision at a fire without an officer but you trust a junior to make judgements that have you cancelling responding units. That is just ridiculous.

    If somebody can tell me that everybody is out of the cars at an MVA I will cancel my second set of tools. In fact I'll probably cancel my first set of tools and just have the engine roll in to assist EMS.

    A junior can tell me if everybody is out of the car and can ask LE how many folks are complaining of injuries.

    Again, I will get trucks off the road if the initial report tells me I likely don't need them.

    Sorry I will never agree with some underage junior giving me info that I would use to cancel responding rigs.

    .

    Our juniors sit through the same size-up classes as our adults and basically perform the same skills during training. Honestly I can think of several juniors that have passed through here (several who were hired as career members within a year of turning 18) who could give a far better size-up than many of our adult members. And they could make some pretty rational decisions on scene.

    Doesn't speak very highly of your training of your regular FD members if new kids are kicking their butts in ANY area. I see this as a black mark on your training program not something to brag about.

    Not really.

    Many of our juniors are pretty sharp. And again, we not asking them to identify building construction or the type of cars. Just what they see in the first 10 seconds from inside the vehicle.


    I don't care how sharp they are they lack the skill, experience, training or maturity to be counted on for that critical of a duty at an emergency. Again, funny that in previous topics you have clearly stated your regular member don't have the skills to take leadership roles but you would place a junior in the position to determine on the cancelling of responding apparatus.

    It works for us. And also worked pretty well for my previous VFD in VT (where everybody did respond to the station).

    I suppose when your performance standard is only to burn down the original structure and not the entire town.

    You will NEVER get me to agree juniors should be responding hot to emergency scenes, or at all really.

    And you'll never get me to agree that well trained and supervised juniors should never NOT be a part of the response.

    You are wrong and using children to supplement your abysmal manpower shortage. When one dies or is seriously injured your house of cards will crumble.

    And they are not allowed to respond hot, unless they are riding in a department apparatus.

    Which they ABSOLUTELY should not be allowed to do.

    I guess we'll just have to disagree, just like we disagree on the critical role of trained exterior firefighters and driver-only members.
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    I find it interesting/amazing/ludicrous and sub 70 IQ that the Foghorn Leghorn of Safety on this board spends time defending using KIDS on the fire ground.

    And I'm still laughing about "Junior Squirrels"!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    My bet is those Coast Guardsman weren't really that young as much as you are getting older and young adults appear younger every year. That has occurred to me. there is a police officer in the neighboring town that if I saw him in street clothes I would say is 16 or 17 years old. In reality he is in his early 20's.
    Hell, he's younger than I am... He's a good guy and seems to be a good cop, but damn. lol
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

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    Quote Originally Posted by FF-Andy View Post
    I find it interesting/amazing/ludicrous and sub 70 IQ that the Foghorn Leghorn of Safety on this board spends time defending using KIDS on the fire ground.

    And I'm still laughing about "Junior Squirrels"!!!
    Now look, I say look here, boy. You're doin' it, I say you're doin' it all wrong!
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    Quote Originally Posted by FF-Andy View Post
    I find it interesting/amazing/ludicrous and sub 70 IQ that the Foghorn Leghorn of Safety on this board spends time defending using KIDS on the fire ground.

    And I'm still laughing about "Junior Squirrels"!!!
    Funny thing is that I have been a part of 2 departments where the juniors are trained, well supervised and yes, allowed to experience limited offensive experiences as junior members.

    And guess what? When they turn 18 they are fully prepared to step into the role of an offensive firefighter and contribute as such.

    Again, if you run a clean program that demands that juniors attend training, demonstrate cognitive knowledge and skills and participate in every aspect of the department's operations, I see no issues with juniors operating on the fireground.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Which may mean jack squat and be totally wrong. Can they see the back of the building from their windshield out front?

    And when they get out, and walk around they'll report that, but we have a policy where the first unit - member or apparatus gives a 10 word description of what these from inside the vehicle.

    A junior can easily give that report.



    Again, that may be totally worng based on what little they see.

    No different than the first adult member who may be totally wrong.

    YOU said they should know the type of home site built or trailer, if they know that why can't they say whether it is a modular or not?

    I would expect our officers to be able to make that distinction, but not necessarily one of our firefighters. And again, that's not necessarily a part of the windshield survey.

    It's an expectation as part of the initial officer's report however.



    Sure because they are experts and can see a smoldering fire that hasn't broken out yet. Or fire that is only visible from the back. I am simply amazed at your ridiculousness. You can't trust your so called regular members to make a decision at a fire without an officer but you trust a junior to make judgements that have you cancelling responding units. That is just ridiculous.

    First of all, the first member on-scene, junior or non-junior is not cancelling any units. They are simply providing information for the Duty Chief or Shift Captain to make decisions. That officer can do whatever he wishes with that.

    And again, this is called a windshield survey, and it's designed to give us some information as soon as a member arrives. That information can, is usually is added to or changed after a 360 has been conducted by the member.


    Sorry I will never agree with some underage junior giving me info that I would use to cancel responding rigs.

    And I have no issue in making decisions based on the report of a trained, competent junior member.


    I don't care how sharp they are they lack the skill, experience, training or maturity to be counted on for that critical of a duty at an emergency. Again, funny that in previous topics you have clearly stated your regular member don't have the skills to take leadership roles but you would place a junior in the position to determine on the cancelling of responding apparatus.

    Funny thing is many of our current juniors have more time on and more experience than many of our newer adult members.

    And again, juniors are not making decisions but simply providing information.



    You are wrong and using children to supplement your abysmal manpower shortage. When one dies or is seriously injured your house of cards will crumble.

    Actually we currently have no juniors in my VFD. This post is referring to the juniors in my combo department which averages over 20 volunteers per structural incident. And even with those very good response numbers, I still want my juniors involved in EMS, rescue and fireground operations
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    I remain glad that the one POC FD I am a member of that has a junior program does NOT allow juniors to respond to emergencies in any capacity. They are involved in training exercises ONLY. Others may disagree but I will NEVER support juniors being on an emergency scene.
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    I'm on the fence about Juniors running calls. In 11 years, our department has had 4, myself included. The first two of us worked hard, trained hard, and eventually got to participate in fireground activities up to and including going in to feed hose and overhaul. We're both enjoying our careers today. We've had a Junior over the past few years that I wouldn't trust to water my yard, let alone operate on the fireground. He recently got booted for his attitude. The most recent one is still too green to tell, as he's only been on the roster a few weeks. We'll get him oriented and start his training, and take it from there.
    It comes down to maturity. Some show it well and subsequently earn more privileges. Others have no business in the firehouse, let alone on a scene.

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    I just can't get past the fact that the serious injury, or death, of a junior operating at, or responding to, an emergency scene seems like such a heavy burden for the department to bear, as well as a public relations nightmare it just isn't worth it to me. I believe a strong junior program is vital to the future of some volunteer fire departments and getting them a taste of the training and firehouse life and comraderie is a good thing.
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    Boy don't check a thread for a few days and you think it is still about radio programming.

    What happened to world peace

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    Quote Originally Posted by fire49 View Post
    Boy don't check a thread for a few days and you think it is still about radio programming.

    What happened to world peace
    He's playing for the Knicks now.
    I am more than just a serious basketball fan. I am a life-long addict. I was addicted from birth, in fact, because I was born in Kentucky.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fire49 View Post
    Boy don't check a thread for a few days and you think it is still about radio programming.

    What happened to world peace
    I prefer whirled peas.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
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    Maybe it's not too late
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    I prefer whirled peas.
    OK -ill bite --just what the heck are "whirled peas" ? is that when you stir em up in your mashed potatoes ?
    ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    OK -ill bite --just what the heck are "whirled peas" ? is that when you stir em up in your mashed potatoes ?
    Apparently, Whirled Peas is a band too?
    http://whirledpeasband.com/
    lol
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

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    He meant

    Hurled peas

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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    OK -ill bite --just what the heck are "whirled peas" ? is that when you stir em up in your mashed potatoes ?
    Apparently, Whirled Peas is a band too?
    He meant

    Hurled peas
    They are indeed a band. But there is also a bumper stcking mocking the tree hugging crowd one that says "Envision world peace" that says "Envision Whirled Peas."

    I may be unusual in today's world but I happen to like peas. Plain, mixed in mashed potatoes, in tuna casserole, or in sh it on a shingle!
    Last edited by FyredUp; 11-24-2013 at 01:40 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    OK -ill bite --just what the heck are "whirled peas" ? is that when you stir em up in your mashed potatoes ?
    Works good if the dentures don't fit right.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    They are indeed a band. But there is also a bumper stcking mocking the tree hugging crowd one that says "Envision world peace" that says "Envision Whirled Peas."

    I may be unusual in today's world but I happen to like peas. Plain, mixed in mashed potatoes, in tuna casserole, or in sh it on a shingle!
    I wonder if the current generation has ever eaten Sh it on a shingle? That was the only time I was allowed to cuss at home. "I'll have more sh it on a shingle please." Good times.
    The fire service is about service to our fellow man.
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    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    I wonder if the current generation has ever eaten Sh it on a shingle? That was the only time I was allowed to cuss at home. "I'll have more sh it on a shingle please." Good times.
    That's a meal I make when no one else is home because no one else will eat it!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    Works good if the dentures don't fit right.
    its the only way I can eat them with a knife.
    ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Funny thing is that I have been a part of 2 departments where the juniors are trained, well supervised and yes, allowed to experience limited offensive experiences as junior members.

    And guess what? When they turn 18 they are fully prepared to step into the role of an offensive firefighter and contribute as such.

    Again, if you run a clean program that demands that juniors attend training, demonstrate cognitive knowledge and skills and participate in every aspect of the department's operations, I see no issues with juniors operating on the fireground.
    Then you've been on two departments that have the leadership skills of a crackhead mayor.
    If you THINK an 18 year old is "fully prepared to step into the role of an offensive firefighter and contribute as such", and "see no issues with juniors operating on the fireground", then you have the vision of Helen Keller.
    I personally see a 50/50 chance of this kid being arrested for arson, or getting his butt kicked by a REAL FIREFIGHTER.

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    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    I wonder if the current generation has ever eaten Sh it on a shingle? That was the only time I was allowed to cuss at home. "I'll have more sh it on a shingle please." Good times.
    Hmm, I just might make that for lunch next time I'm cooking!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    Hmm, I just might make that for lunch next time I'm cooking!!
    I had it for dnner last night, and leftovers for lunch today. Quite tasty!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    Hmm, I just might make that for lunch next time I'm cooking!!
    My mom used to make that when I was a kid. I loved it. I haven't made it for a quite a while but I can never quite make it like mom used to. Dad hated that stuff, called it "sh*t on a shingle" because that's what he ate most of the time in the CCC camp when he was a kid. I don't think he ever ate it again.
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    BUT,

    What is lost in all this is Devin

    We will never know if the radio got programmed

    We will never know if he got his red Ryder BB gun

    We will never know when he makes fire chief


    So in this week of thanksgiving, let us pause for a moment

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