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Thread: Helping the Detroit Fire Department.

  1. #41
    Forum Member snowball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Seriously I can't believe you posted this absolute bunch of bovine recyclable waste material.

    If that means that Cowpieville has to wait a year for their third new rig to sit idle until the harvest parade, so be it.
    So your image of the rural volunteer fire service is we all have bright new rigs sitting in our stations and have no need for the grants. Seriously? When my #1 POC FD got our grant for a new engine in 2005 it was the first NEW piece of fire apparatus we had bought since 1926. Everything in between was someone else's cast off used piece of iron. Heck, we went years where the rigs were older than the majority of members on the department.
    Before you decide to take my narrow statement and paint me as a vollie hater, open that tin can head of yours and allow a little sunshine in.
    Find me "Cowpieville" their VFD any pictures of their apparatus, and I will retract my sarcastic statement that you perceived as my image of the rural volunteer fire service as a whole. It is not. You don't need to run to their defense with me my friend.
    IAFF


  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowball View Post
    Before you decide to take my narrow statement and paint me as a vollie hater, open that tin can head of yours and allow a little sunshine in.
    Find me "Cowpieville" their VFD any pictures of their apparatus, and I will retract my sarcastic statement that you perceived as my image of the rural volunteer fire service as a whole. It is not. You don't need to run to their defense with me my friend.
    I always thought fyredup was a "cheese head" not a tin head
    ?

  3. #43
    Forum Member snowball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    I always thought fyredup was a "cheese head" not a tin head
    I really like him and respect his opinion. He's super defensive when it comes to volunteer firefighters. I think the way I express myself gets blurred and can be mistaken for picking sides. Folks also might not know that I spent a few hears as a volunteer in a combo department getting pushed around by the career guys as well. I'm no hater, far from it, just a ball breaker.
    IAFF

  4. #44
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowball View Post
    I really like him and respect his opinion. He's super defensive when it comes to volunteer firefighters. I think the way I express myself gets blurred and can be mistaken for picking sides. Folks also might not know that I spent a few hears as a volunteer in a combo department getting pushed around by the career guys as well. I'm no hater, far from it, just a ball breaker.
    It's a funny thing, I AM defensive of the volunteer fire service, but if you read my posts I am also one of the harshest critics of the volunteer fire service at the same time. Sometimes volunteer fire departments are their own worst enemy with the stupid crap they do and accept as standards for membership.

    My original post was in response to the image of the 3 calls a year all shiny new trucks volunteer fire departments. I do know some VERY well equipped volunteer fire departments, but I know far more that fit into the doing okay and even some that are just getting by using older equipment, often hand me downs. I just find the "Big City" deserves it more than Cowpieville because they are a big city ridiculous. I think the entire grant program is flawed when non-essential items beat out departments with older apparatus, obsolete PPE, and other out of date equipment. I know this grant is a SAFER Grant for Detroit, and to be honest, anyone in the know in these grant programs knows that the money that went for this grant has no effect at all on grants for apparatus or equipment.
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    It's a funny thing, I AM defensive of the volunteer fire service, but if you read my posts I am also one of the harshest critics of the volunteer fire service at the same time. Sometimes volunteer fire departments are their own worst enemy with the stupid crap they do and accept as standards for membership.

    My original post was in response to the image of the 3 calls a year all shiny new trucks volunteer fire departments. I do know some VERY well equipped volunteer fire departments, but I know far more that fit into the doing okay and even some that are just getting by using older equipment, often hand me downs. I just find the "Big City" deserves it more than Cowpieville because they are a big city ridiculous. I think the entire grant program is flawed when non-essential items beat out departments with older apparatus, obsolete PPE, and other out of date equipment. I know this grant is a SAFER Grant for Detroit, and to be honest, anyone in the know in these grant programs knows that the money that went for this grant has no effect at all on grants for apparatus or equipment.
    .... But it does have an effect on the volunteer department trying to hire 2 or 3 guys or the small combo department with one member per shift trying to hire a second person.

    Again, the purpose of SAFER was not to hire members for career departments who were laid off. That was not the intent of the program when it was started. It has been hijacked to provide pretty much permanent funding through repeated reapprovals for urban departments in cities that now refuse to or are incapable of funding their own fire protection.

    And that simply is not right.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    .... But it does have an effect on the volunteer department trying to hire 2 or 3 guys or the small combo department with one member per shift trying to hire a second person.

    Again, the purpose of SAFER was not to hire members for career departments who were laid off. That was not the intent of the program when it was started. It has been hijacked to provide pretty much permanent funding through repeated reapprovals for urban departments in cities that now refuse to or are incapable of funding their own fire protection.

    And that simply is not right.
    And also the departments that make their guys use worn out gear/scott packs/ apparatus etc. for a "few more years" so they can "qualify" for a federal grant
    ?

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    http://www.jems.com/article/news/det...sioner-resigns

    Not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing

  8. #48
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    he's getting out before the full effect of the bankruptcy happens.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    The simple fact it he system does not work. The proof lies in the fact that my combo department, with a $1.3M budget and most of the front line SCBA primarily compliant received a grant three years ago to replace 32 SCBA while my VFD with a budget of 140K and very few compliant SCBA did not.

    And here we have it. Jealousy raises its ugly head. No LAF, it was not the system, it was that your paid department either had a better need, or a better grant writer, then your volunteer department (Which had two strikes going against it, they don't do interior attacks and you probably wrote the grant application)

  10. #50
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    Back to the OP, the National Firefighters Endowment has championed this program for DFD, and no money, equipment, etc goes to anyone BUT the DFD, in the form of equipment - and only equipment, filling want lists directly from the fire stations.

    Not some suit up above saying we need "this" and not a knee jerk reaction to "NFPA Says this".

    The equipment will be delivered directly to DFD.

    It is designed to make sure the brothers at the DFD get the equipment they need to SAFELY do their job, as they have been orphaned by the city.

    Sure, we could say the city gets what they pay for, but do our brothers in the fire service have to pay the cost?

  11. #51
    MembersZone Subscriber LVFD301's Avatar
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    Just got back from Detroit, and the National Firefighter Endowment equipment distribution. Visiting the 14 stations was a real eye opener. Everyone we talked to, from the basic firefighters to the Chief of the Department, have great attitudes, but they are faced with lots of challenges.

    Can you imagine how many hoops had to be jumped through to make this happen? The city had to sign off, the FD had to sign off, the Union had to sign off, the Health and Safety committee had to sign off.

    One of the stations was ecstatic that be brought them 30 pairs of firefighting gloves. They had just exhausted their supplies, they had nothing but damaged gloves to use, and no clue when the city would get them some more.

    Another showed me how they had siliconed holes in their boots, and then when the boots cracked at the flex point above the ankle, they just got wet. He had been asking for new boots for a long time. Rubber boots where all they had.

    We were warned to make sure that we put the items directly into the hands of the firefighters, and we did so. Basic PPE, and hand tools were the biggest items.

    A great bunch of guys, with a great attitude, in a crappy situation.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    Just got back from Detroit, and the National Firefighter Endowment equipment distribution. Visiting the 14 stations was a real eye opener. Everyone we talked to, from the basic firefighters to the Chief of the Department, have great attitudes, but they are faced with lots of challenges.

    Can you imagine how many hoops had to be jumped through to make this happen? The city had to sign off, the FD had to sign off, the Union had to sign off, the Health and Safety committee had to sign off.

    One of the stations was ecstatic that be brought them 30 pairs of firefighting gloves. They had just exhausted their supplies, they had nothing but damaged gloves to use, and no clue when the city would get them some more.

    Another showed me how they had siliconed holes in their boots, and then when the boots cracked at the flex point above the ankle, they just got wet. He had been asking for new boots for a long time. Rubber boots where all they had.

    We were warned to make sure that we put the items directly into the hands of the firefighters, and we did so. Basic PPE, and hand tools were the biggest items.

    A great bunch of guys, with a great attitude, in a crappy situation.
    Good looking out LVFD301. Politics aside, the DFD are our brothers and sisters and I'm glad they got some obviously needed equipment.

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    The solution is simple.

    Local communities handle local emergency services.

    No more grants for fire, police or EMS including Homeland Security money.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    Just got back from Detroit, and the National Firefighter Endowment equipment distribution. Visiting the 14 stations was a real eye opener. Everyone we talked to, from the basic firefighters to the Chief of the Department, have great attitudes, but they are faced with lots of challenges.

    Can you imagine how many hoops had to be jumped through to make this happen? The city had to sign off, the FD had to sign off, the Union had to sign off, the Health and Safety committee had to sign off.

    One of the stations was ecstatic that be brought them 30 pairs of firefighting gloves. They had just exhausted their supplies, they had nothing but damaged gloves to use, and no clue when the city would get them some more.

    Another showed me how they had siliconed holes in their boots, and then when the boots cracked at the flex point above the ankle, they just got wet. He had been asking for new boots for a long time. Rubber boots where all they had.

    We were warned to make sure that we put the items directly into the hands of the firefighters, and we did so. Basic PPE, and hand tools were the biggest items.

    A great bunch of guys, with a great attitude, in a crappy situation.
    Now......not to pee in anyone's Wheaties here, but what happens next time that the DFD needs materials and equipment? Will the City Admin and the bean counters say to them "Meh.....go ask that charitable group?"

    Part of me thinks it was a great idea- get them the equipment they need.......Part of me also thinks it should not have been done. The City of Detroit should have gotten them their equipment. And if the City won't get it for them, then they should just flat out refuse to do their jobs, period.
    slackjawedyokel likes this.
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  15. #55
    Forum Member firedan525's Avatar
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    Im just gonna dummy this one down. Our brothers need help and equipment. Which may just keep DFD from having a LODD related to understaffing, broken trucks, and worn out equipment. Federal, and State governments give away absurd amounts of money to less worthy causes. Whether or not Detroit is able to pull out of its financial decline is yet to be determined, but at least now our brothers have a fighting chance to properly protect the city while the dipshizts running the city try to turn things around.

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    Ok -where I live a large percentage of people move/live here for the lower property taxes and little regulations. As a result , in many places fire/emergency services are "substandard" - when the local fire services play the poor me / underfunded card, do you think they should be subsidized also?
    ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    The point is by no fault of their own, DFD firefighters respond to more fire than all of the departments in this thread combined with worn out gear, broken or missing tools and less than proper staffing. You buy a shirt, they get a saw. Or boots. Or whatever.

    As usual the same crowd caused the discussion to veer off track with political BS that has nothing to do with the point of the thread.
    Well, the fire department is a service of this city's government. Whether you support donating gear to them or not, the politics of why the city is so broke that it cannot provide them is logically part of the discussion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    The point is by no fault of their own, DFD firefighters respond to more fire than all of the departments in this thread combined with worn out gear, broken or missing tools and less than proper staffing. You buy a shirt, they get a saw. Or boots. Or whatever.

    As usual the same crowd caused the discussion to veer off track with political BS that has nothing to do with the point of the thread.
    Nothing to do with the point of this thread? A little obtuse don't you think? The reason that this thread exists is precisely because of political BS. Why should the DFD have to rely on fundraisers to get basic, essential equipment such as gloves, boots, helmets, coats, saws, hooks, axes. etc....NEVERMIND thermal cameras, new rigs or how about god forbid just getting the existing rigs repaired???? How about decent facilities that dont have raw sewage running through the basements? No leaking pipes or broken windows? Heat and air conditioning? Why shouldn't we discuss the political BS that has led to this predicament? Why? Why? Why? And if this keeps up, why SHOULDN'T the bean counters tell them next time they ask for something "No sorry- go ask that Leary Foundation or have a fundraiser."
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  19. #59
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    Time for the Detroit Firefighters to join the ranks of their rural FD Brothers and Sisters and start running chicken dinners, raffles, dances, car washes, and more, to fund their needed equipment. Run it thought a seperate organization so the city can't touch the money.

    We do it all the time and it seems to be okay with the majority here on FH.com, so why not?
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  20. #60
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    I could not care less about the politics of Detroit. What I do care about is the people on the front lines who are doing their best to save lives and property in Detroit. When the money runs out, so will the donations, so it is not a long term fix, and I think that anyone with half a shred of common sense will know that - but of course people with half a shred of common sense would not have put the city in the situation that it is.

    Should it not have been done? I was cautious at first - I tend to try to help more rural departments first, but after talking with these guys, seeing how bad it really is, I will do all I can to help.

    The only politics I even thought about is how much it must get ****burger that part of the group was composed of volunteer firefighters..... I rolled on the floor thinking about how that must burn his arse

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