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Thread: More ammo to rid the fire service of alcohol.......

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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    from the wet down reference im guessing your from jersey - and you consider that rude ?
    yeah and from my profile, which says NJ. All it took was snowball to read a few posts up to figure out what was going on, but some like to rip someone before reading a few posts up in the thread. I'll live, after all, I'm from NJ.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snowball View Post
    Yes, here's their uniform.
    Attachment 23225
    Engine guy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Perhaps these people should be seeking psychiatric help and/or seeking assistance from A/A instead of being Volunteer Firefighters if the physical contents of their beverage makes them feel "more at ease."
    So one or two beers after training makes them candidates for AA? Really?
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    So one or two beers after training makes them candidates for AA? Really?
    Based upon what you have told us, I would say ABSOLUTELY!!
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by JD1234 View Post
    yeah and from my profile, which says NJ. All it took was snowball to read a few posts up to figure out what was going on, but some like to rip someone before reading a few posts up in the thread. I'll live, after all, I'm from NJ.
    It wasn't a rip, it was a question. I missed your post as I have my pages set up with fewer posts per page. I must have missed your post even though mine came in right after, on a new page. Are you the guy that got the beat down?
    IAFF

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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    sorry --I didn't mean to paint all you prune pickers with the same brush-guess I need a road trip.
    Come on out! We'll get all liquored up and try to find a "prune" tree. Then I'll head your way and you can show me a cigarette field.
    IAFF

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    Quote Originally Posted by snowball View Post
    It wasn't a rip, it was a question. I missed your post as I have my pages set up with fewer posts per page. I must have missed your post even though mine came in right after, on a new page. Are you the guy that got the beat down?
    Not the guy that got the beat down, but I know of him, and it was a fairly big story in NJ when it happened 3 years ago. But back to my point, and the one that Here and there made (and the point of the thread), the culture of booze and bars in volunteer firehouses needs to change. The example I cited is a good one of an organization that does not get it. Officer gets drunk and beats snot out of firefighter. Officer removed from office, when he should have been removed from department. 3 years later, officer is back in the ranks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    So one or two beers after training makes them candidates for AA? Really?
    No. The fact that they feel that they absolutely, positively need to have an alcoholic beverage in order to feel "at ease" does. The fact that they cannot feel "at ease" with a coke, a pepsi, a Dr Pepper, an iced tea, a coffee, a water, a lemonade or a glass of milk does.
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowball View Post
    Come on out! We'll get all liquored up and try to find a "prune" tree. Then I'll head your way and you can show me a cigarette field.
    sounds good --- no cigarette fields here , I think that is in Kentucky -but up in the Ozarks, they do grow stuff to smoke.
    ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JD1234 View Post
    Not the guy that got the beat down, but I know of him, and it was a fairly big story in NJ when it happened 3 years ago. But back to my point, and the one that Here and there made (and the point of the thread), the culture of booze and bars in volunteer firehouses needs to change. The example I cited is a good one of an organization that does not get it. Officer gets drunk and beats snot out of firefighter. Officer removed from office, when he should have been removed from department. 3 years later, officer is back in the ranks.
    Had that been a career department, both parties involved would have been terminated and one would have been prosecuted. Worlds apart...
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    No. The fact that they feel that they absolutely, positively need to have an alcoholic beverage in order to feel "at ease" does. The fact that they cannot feel "at ease" with a coke, a pepsi, a Dr Pepper, an iced tea, a coffee, a water, a lemonade or a glass of milk does.
    There is no doubt that not having beer after drill would have made no difference in their attending, and likely staying after drill to socialize.

    The simple fact was we had no issues with members getting drunk and no issues with members who chose to drink responding. They understood the rules and the rules were enforced.

    Again, you keep using present tense. This was on a department 30 years ago that no longer allows drinking at the station. And again, neither does either of my current departments.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 12-15-2013 at 06:42 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD1234 View Post
    Not the guy that got the beat down, but I know of him, and it was a fairly big story in NJ when it happened 3 years ago. But back to my point, and the one that Here and there made (and the point of the thread), the culture of booze and bars in volunteer firehouses needs to change. The example I cited is a good one of an organization that does not get it. Officer gets drunk and beats snot out of firefighter. Officer removed from office, when he should have been removed from department. 3 years later, officer is back in the ranks.
    What if the guy really DESERVED a beatdown?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JD1234 View Post
    I have a better question. How is a rank and file firefighter supposed to respect the office of a man who in a drunken fit of anger beat the crap out of subordinate in violation of the town's workplace anti-violence policy?
    I don't think one could, but apparently the members felt it wasn't an issue since they re-elected him. I wouldn't belong to an organization like that and would do what I could to get my local politicians to replace it with an actual fire department.

    Didn't comment on that incident specifically because it was a localized incident, or at least I hope so. Electing officers and drinking are a wide spread issue afflicting the volunteer fire service, both a byproduct of people treating the fire department as a social club instead of an emergency service.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    There is no doubt that not having beer after drill would have made no difference in their attending, and likely staying after drill to socialize.

    The simple fact was we had no issues with members getting drunk and no issues with members who chose to drink responding. They understood the rules and the rules were enforced.

    Again, you keep using present tense. This was on a department 30 years ago that no longer allows drinking at the station. And again, neither does either of my current departments.
    Then you should have no problem agreeing that alcohol shouldn't be in the firehouse.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    The simple fact was we had no issues with members getting drunk and no issues with members who chose to drink responding. They understood the rules and the rules were enforced.
    Good, then it's a moot fuchking point- you should have ZERO issue with banning alcohol in firehouses. Period.
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowball View Post
    Had that been a career department, both parties involved would have been terminated and one would have been prosecuted. Worlds apart...
    In many volunteer departments....same thing. Apparently, the one JD is mentioning is not one of the many.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Because some people feel more at ease with a beer.
    Makes perfect sense to me. I don't drink, but if I had to spend a few hours around you I imagine I would probably want to start.

    But I still would not drink in the department
    Last edited by LVFD301; 12-15-2013 at 09:52 PM.

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    Alcohol has no place in the fire station, PERIOD! There is absolutely no exception. Any one who tries to argue the point is an idiot. Our job is already dangerous, no need to add to it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firedan525 View Post
    Alcohol has no place in the fire station, PERIOD! There is absolutely no exception. Any one who tries to argue the point is an idiot. Our job is already dangerous, no need to add to it.
    I don't think anyone is saying that drinking and responding should be allowed.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I don't think anyone is saying that drinking and responding should be allowed.
    That's only part of what they're saying numbnuts.

    They're also saying that alcohol has NO place in the firehouse.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I don't think anyone is saying that drinking and responding should be allowed.
    But it happens. I guarantee it. The temptation is too much. You mean to tell me that after drill, a bunch of guys go home and a bunch of others stay to drink beer, and a call comes in for a rompin', stompin' structure fire, and they're gonna wait for the sober guys to come back???

    No way. Human nature. Keep the beer out of the station.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    --General James Mattis, USMC


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    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF View Post
    But it happens. I guarantee it. The temptation is too much. You mean to tell me that after drill, a bunch of guys go home and a bunch of others stay to drink beer, and a call comes in for a rompin', stompin' structure fire, and they're gonna wait for the sober guys to come back???

    No way. Human nature. Keep the beer out of the station.
    How do you know the guys that left are sober? They could have been at home drinking, at the local VFW drinking, at the local bar, etc.




    Don't drink (anywhere) and respond......
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF View Post
    But it happens. I guarantee it. The temptation is too much. You mean to tell me that after drill, a bunch of guys go home and a bunch of others stay to drink beer, and a call comes in for a rompin', stompin' structure fire, and they're gonna wait for the sober guys to come back???

    No way. Human nature. Keep the beer out of the station.
    There was generally a pretty good mix of beer drinkers and soda drinkers hanging out after drill.

    There were many occasion s where we filled two engines with soda drinkers for a run while we were hanging out.

    At least in that department, I have seen the guys who had a beer or two stay at the station when a structure fire did come in. We just filled out the third engine with a mutual aid company.

    Why? Because the Chief officers that were there told them they were going to stay.

    Policies and enforcement.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 12-17-2013 at 09:05 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    That's only part of what they're saying numbnuts.

    They're also saying that alcohol has NO place in the firehouse.
    For the most part I agree, but there are circumstances, where under controls, policies and supervision, it can be managed.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 12-17-2013 at 09:28 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    At least in that department, I have seen the guys who had a beer or two stay at the station when a structure fire did come in. We just filled out the third engine with a mutual aid company.

    Why? Because the Chief officers that were there told them they were going to stay.

    Policies and enforcement.
    What fun it would be to be a mutual aid company that has to come in and bail you out because a third of your guys had been drinking.

    And what if the chief officers weren't there? Sounds like to me that's the only reason they stayed.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
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