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Thread: More ammo to rid the fire service of alcohol.......

  1. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    How do you know the guys that left are sober? They could have been at home drinking, at the local VFW drinking, at the local bar, etc.




    Don't drink (anywhere) and respond......
    Yes. I should clarify. My point was that apparently (but not definitely), everyone was sober when training began. Afterwards, those who wanted to drink stayed and did so; those who didn't want to, went home.

    From there my point was that I couldn't picture the drinkers sitting there in the station and waiting on the "dry" members to return when a call came in.

    I can see that situation spurring drinkers to respond even though they shouldn't.
    I am more than just a serious basketball fan. I am a life-long addict. I was addicted from birth, in fact, because I was born in Kentucky.
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    Default And in today's note of irony...

    Many departments try to keep some nice toys around the station. Some places have pool tables. Others have exercise equipment or basketball goals. Some have really awesome TV's and gaming consoles.

    Whatever the amenity, isn't it there to inspire personnel to hang out at the station, in order to shorten response times and increase staffing?

    So why would you put something in the station that will actually REDUCE readiness? "Let's go hang out at the station, get sh*tfaced, and be unable to respond."

    Are there that many people who don't see how bass-ackwards this is??
    I am more than just a serious basketball fan. I am a life-long addict. I was addicted from birth, in fact, because I was born in Kentucky.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF View Post
    Many departments try to keep some nice toys around the station. Some places have pool tables. Others have exercise equipment or basketball goals. Some have really awesome TV's and gaming consoles.

    Whatever the amenity, isn't it there to inspire personnel to hang out at the station, in order to shorten response times and increase staffing?

    So why would you put something in the station that will actually REDUCE readiness? "Let's go hang out at the station, get sh*tfaced, and be unable to respond."

    Are there that many people who don't see how bass-ackwards this is??
    And guess what .... For the most part I agree.

    I never said that anyone should be allowed to drink as much as they wanted at any time. I would have significant issues with that.

    I am talking about allowing the members to have a beer or two (limited quantities) after drill (limited times) under direct supervision with response policies in place. In fact, in a previous department where beer was allowed after drill, the beer was cut off 1 hour after the end of drill.

    Again, what you described was not the case in a previous VFD where beer was allowed.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I never said that anyone should be allowed to drink as much as they wanted at any time. I would have significant issues with that.
    You are just as out of commission after a single swig of beer as you are if you're fall-down drunk.

    ANY alcohol is too much to respond.

    No amount of supervision or policies changes that.
    I am more than just a serious basketball fan. I am a life-long addict. I was addicted from birth, in fact, because I was born in Kentucky.
    ― Hunter S. Thompson

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    For the most part I agree, but there are circumstances, where under controls, policies and supervision, it can be managed.
    It's managed best by NO presence at all.

    Again, that is what separates professionals from your gang of idiots.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And guess what .... For the most part I agree.

    I never said that anyone should be allowed to drink as much as they wanted at any time. I would have significant issues with that.

    I am talking about allowing the members to have a beer or two (limited quantities) after drill (limited times) under direct supervision with response policies in place. In fact, in a previous department where beer was allowed after drill, the beer was cut off 1 hour after the end of drill.

    Again, what you described was not the case in a previous VFD where beer was allowed.
    Way to completely avoid the questions asked and the whole point of the statement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF View Post
    You are just as out of commission after a single swig of beer as you are if you're fall-down drunk.

    ANY alcohol is too much to respond.

    No amount of supervision or policies changes that.
    I have stated time and time again that in a previous VFD of mine which allowed a beer or two in the hall after drill, if you decided to drink at all, you were not allowed to respond to calls at all until the next morning. Period.

    And yes, effective supervision enforced that.

    I agree with you. Alcohol = No response.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 12-17-2013 at 03:59 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    It's managed best by NO presence at all.

    Again, that is what separates professionals from your gang of idiots.
    And again ................... Neither one of my current departments allows alcohol in the station.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Alcohol = No response.
    And my point, which I have attempted many times, is this:

    Alcohol in station = temptation to respond even when you shouldn't.

    If the drinkers are worth a crap as firemen, it should be so torturous to sit in the station and not respond that they should have absolutely no desire to drink there.
    I am more than just a serious basketball fan. I am a life-long addict. I was addicted from birth, in fact, because I was born in Kentucky.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF View Post
    ...Whatever the amenity, isn't it there to inspire personnel to hang out at the station, in order to shorten response times and increase staffing?....
    No. It's actually there to give the guys a place to hang out and socialize with each other. Just refurnished our pool table, buying a large screen TV and adding HD, and replacing furniture. None of that intended to shorten response times.

    "From there my point was that I couldn't picture the drinkers sitting there in the station and waiting on the "dry" members to return when a call came in. " - well, much to your surprise....it does actually happen.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF View Post
    If the drinkers are worth a crap as firemen, it should be so torturous to sit in the station and not respond that they should have absolutely no desire to drink there.
    I heartily concur. When my unit rolls, I want to be with them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And guess what .... For the most part I agree.

    I am talking about allowing the members to have a beer or two (limited quantities) after drill (limited times) under direct supervision with response policies in place. In fact, in a previous department where beer was allowed after drill, the beer was cut off 1 hour after the end of drill.
    You are, always have been and always will be be a dumbass because of statements like this.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Quote Originally Posted by FF-Andy View Post
    I heartily concur. When my unit rolls, I want to be with them.
    That's great, but it's perfectly acceptable to take a night off, and if that's what a member wants to do, I have no issues with that.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    That's great, but it's perfectly acceptable to take a night off, and if that's what a member wants to do, I have no issues with that.
    Taking a night off is a separate (and acceptable) issue. Go get honky tonked. No one cares about that.

    East KY suggested that it would be torturous to a good fireman to watch his crew leave the hall 10-33 to a structure fire without him because he was drinking beer to feel much more at ease at the fire hall. I agreed with him. It doesn't surprise me in the least that you would miss his point because (wait for it)...... your posts do not indicate that you are a good fireman.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FF-Andy View Post
    Taking a night off is a separate (and acceptable) issue. Go get honky tonked. No one cares about that.

    East KY suggested that it would be torturous to a good fireman to watch his crew leave the hall 10-33 to a structure fire without him because he was drinking beer to feel much more at ease at the fire hall. I agreed with him. It doesn't surprise me in the least that you would miss his point because (wait for it)...... your posts do not indicate that you are a good fireman.
    Maybe I'm not ......

    ....Or maybe I have never been one to feel that I need to make every call, even if they are structure fires. That may sound like I don't care, but that's not the case. It just does generally not concern me if I miss a fire now and then because I need a night ... or a fire ..... off.

    If you want to think of me as a poor firefighter because of that, have at it.

    (Though I have never missed a call because of a beer or two at the firehouse)
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post

    If you want to think of me as a poor firefighter because of that, have at it.

    (Though I have never missed a call because of a beer or two at the firehouse)
    Don't worry; beer in the engine house never actually crossed my mind to form that opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And again ................... Neither one of my current departments allows alcohol in the station.
    I'm aware of that. The point is that you have made it clear you condone alcohol in the station. That is the difference between a professional fire department and a group of idiots.

    Reading, it's FUNdamental.
    Last edited by scfire86; 12-17-2013 at 11:39 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Maybe I'm not ......

    ....Or maybe I have never been one to feel that I need to make every call, even if they are structure fires. That may sound like I don't care, but that's not the case. It just does generally not concern me if I miss a fire now and then because I need a night ... or a fire ..... off.

    If you want to think of me as a poor firefighter because of that, have at it.

    (Though I have never missed a call because of a beer or two at the firehouse)
    There is a big difference between missing a call while you're sitting at the station drinking and missing one because you are living a life outside the firehouse.

    I miss runs almost any time that I go out of town. While some factors might make me wish I'd been there--say a fire or MVC involving someone I know--I don't automatically get bummed out over missing a run, because as much as I love the fire service, I have a family, a job, and a church that gets some of my time too.
    I am more than just a serious basketball fan. I am a life-long addict. I was addicted from birth, in fact, because I was born in Kentucky.
    ― Hunter S. Thompson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    No. It's actually there to give the guys a place to hang out and socialize with each other. Just refurnished our pool table, buying a large screen TV and adding HD, and replacing furniture. None of that intended to shorten response times.

    "From there my point was that I couldn't picture the drinkers sitting there in the station and waiting on the "dry" members to return when a call came in. " - well, much to your surprise....it does actually happen.
    In the case of vollie departments without live-ins or required station time--and I think you guys are one or the other or both, aren't you?--it does help with staffing. Guys will only sit around the barn so long waiting for the tones if there's nothing else to do. A pool table or something will keep some guys occupied.

    As for drinkers staying put in the station for the call, I sure as heck hope it does happen. But I know if it was me, I would be royally miserable.
    I am more than just a serious basketball fan. I am a life-long addict. I was addicted from birth, in fact, because I was born in Kentucky.
    ― Hunter S. Thompson

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    Yes, we are not live-in nor scheduled staffed times.

    With our low call volume, no one sits around the firehouse waiting for calls. We have gone 2 weeks without a call....long time to wait. We have had days with 10 calls in one day.

    Only times you will find guys in station waiting for a call....we hear neighboring town is busy with a lot of runs, they are at a structure, or weather is making guys think we will be called for something.

    Yes, I know that is some places people do hang around their stations waiting for calls. We are not one of those places.


    Will admit....when I was new in the Department, we had some younger members that would hang around waiting for calls. They would get bored.....so they created calls by starting small fires. As you can imagine.....it left a sour taste in our mouth in regards to hanging around waiting for calls.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    sounds good --- no cigarette fields here , I think that is in Kentucky -but up in the Ozarks, they do grow stuff to smoke.
    Yes we do. But not Tobacco!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Yes, we are not live-in nor scheduled staffed times.

    With our low call volume, no one sits around the firehouse waiting for calls. We have gone 2 weeks without a call....long time to wait. We have had days with 10 calls in one day.

    Only times you will find guys in station waiting for a call....we hear neighboring town is busy with a lot of runs, they are at a structure, or weather is making guys think we will be called for something.

    Yes, I know that is some places people do hang around their stations waiting for calls. We are not one of those places.


    Will admit....when I was new in the Department, we had some younger members that would hang around waiting for calls. They would get bored.....so they created calls by starting small fires. As you can imagine.....it left a sour taste in our mouth in regards to hanging around waiting for calls.
    When I'm hanging around the firestation, I'm usually doing some maintenance, or working on a project. (I'm currently painting some small parts for a military vehicle I'm restoring, I got too much crap in my unheated garage, so I do it at the firehouse) It would be convienient if a call came in while I was there, but I sure as heck ain't gonna go around trying to drum up business. I think if you keep guys busy, when they're at the firehouse, you won't have to worry so much about the firebugs.

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    Being a career firefighter, its easy to avoid this issue all together by not drinking before my scheduled shift. Regardless of being paid or volunteer, if you show up to the station or respond to a call after drinking its my personal belief that you show a disregard for the safety of the public and/or your fellow firefighters. ALCOHOL IMPAIRS. If you need a drink to be more at ease, go get help. You need it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firedan525 View Post
    If you need a drink to be more at ease, go get help. You need it.
    An excellent point that's been lost in this discussion.
    I am more than just a serious basketball fan. I am a life-long addict. I was addicted from birth, in fact, because I was born in Kentucky.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    There was generally a pretty good mix of beer drinkers and soda drinkers hanging out after drill.

    There were many occasion s where we filled two engines with soda drinkers for a run while we were hanging out.

    At least in that department, I have seen the guys who had a beer or two stay at the station when a structure fire did come in. We just filled out the third engine with a mutual aid company.

    Why? Because the Chief officers that were there told them they were going to stay.

    Policies and enforcement.
    Elephant in the room: Why is it so important to have alcohol available in the firehouse, at a drill site after training, or whatever? Why is it so important to begin drinking ASAP, instead of doing it later, away from the firehouse?

    Why are members not meeting up a little later, off fire department property, and not wearing any clothing that identifies them as members of the department?
    scfire86 likes this.

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